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Consciousness vs Artificial Programming

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posted on May, 14 2015 @ 11:40 AM
a reply to: Elementalist

I find it humorous you actually think you know what imagination is, and where it manifests, as if you have discovered and experimented with it thoroughly.

"Imagination sees the complete reality, - it is where past, present and future meet... Imagination is limited neither to the reality which is apparent - nor to one place. It lives everywhere. It is at a center and feels the vibrations of all the circles within which east and west are virtually included. Imagination is the life of mental freedom. It realizes what everything is in its many aspects ... Imagination does not uplift: we don't want to be uplifted, we want to be more completely aware."- Kahlil Gibran

We want to be more completely aware..

The problem with the new age movement is it is filled with people who speak from book knowledge instead of experience.

I will be making one last thread I've been working on for sometime (piecing together over my spare-spare time), which will be my last authored thread on ATS before my leave.

My friend, put in the inner work. Channel the insight from your subconscious instead of external sources or you will end up like the rest - sitting in a lotus position with crystals chanting OM with nothing to show for it.

Here is a signpost:

“When I get an idea I start at once building it up in my imagination. I change the construction, make improvements and operate the device in my mind. It is absolutely immaterial to me whether I run my turbine in thought or test it in my shop. I even note if it is out of balance. There is no difference whatever; the results were the same. In this way I am able to rapidly develop and perfect a conception without touching anything. When I have gone so far to embody in the invention every possible improvement I can think of and see no fault anywhere, I put into concrete form this final product of my brain. Invariably my device works as I conceived that it should, and the experiment comes out exactly as I planned it. In twenty years there has not been a single exception." -Nikola Tesla

“The concept of imagination is perhaps the most important key to the understanding of the opus.” - Carl Jung


If we are to engage the subtle body, the imagination must be “employed,” which will nonlocally help the life-nourishing “economy” of the biosphere as a whole. The subtle body can only be perceived by the eye of imagination itself, which is the supra-sensory organ of its auto-revelation. Simultaneous to being the object of the alchemists’ contemplation, the imagination was itself the organ of perception through which they imaginatively gained access to the other-worldly and world-creating qualities of the sacred imagination existing within themselves.

Here is another signpost:

It is important to differentiate the alchemists’ notion of imagination, which is a creative activity originating out of and expressing the wholeness of the Self, from mere fantasy, which is a repetitive and self-soothing activity of the ego whose fundamental purpose is to avoid relationship with life. An alchemical text expresses this same idea by saying, “In thine efforts be guided in all ways by the true and not the fantastic imagination.” It is the alchemists’ version of true imagination that Einstein was referring to when he famously said “Imagination is more important than knowledge.”

Active Imagination

Islamic tradition[edit]

The imaginal realm is known in Islamic philosophy as alam al-mithal, the imaginal world. According to Avicenna, the imagination mediated between, and thus unified, human reason and divine being. This mediating quality manifested in two directions: on the one hand, reason, rising above itself, could attain to the level of active imagination, an activity shared with the lower hierarchies of the divine realm. On the other hand, in order to manifest the concrete forms of the world, divinity created a range of intermediate beings, the angelic co-creators of the universe.[1]:11According to philosophers of this tradition, the trained imagination can access a "nonspatial fabric" which mediates between the empirical/sensory and the cognititional/spiritual realms.

Through Averroes, mainstream Islamic philosophy lost its relationship to the active imagination. The Sufi movement in Persia, as exemplified by Ibn Arabi, continued to explore contemplative approaches to the imaginal realm.[1]

Henry Corbin[edit]

Henry Corbin considered imaginal cognition to be a "purely spiritual faculty independent of the physical organism and thus surviving it".[3] Islamic philosophy in general, and Avicenna and Corbin in particular, distinguish sharply between the true imaginations that stem from the imaginal realm, and personal fantasies, which have an unreal character, and are "imaginary" in the common sense of this word. Corbin termed the imagination which transcended fantasy imaginatio vera.

Corbin suggested that by developing our imaginal perception, we can go beyond mere symbolic representations of archetypes to the point where "new senses perceive directly the order of [supersensible] reality".[4]:81 To accomplish this passage from symbol to reality requires a "transmutation of the being and of the spirit"[5] Corbin describes the imaginal realm as "a precise order of reality, corresponding to a precise mode of perception," the "cognitive Imagination" (p. 1).[6] He considered the imaginal realm to be identical with the realm of angels described in many religions, which manifests not only through imaginations but also in people’s vocation and destiny.[4]:96

Corbin (1964) suggests that it is by developing this faculty of cognitive imagination that we can overcome the "divorce between thinking and being" [6]:4

More recently, the imaginal concept was further developed in Communication Sciences domain. Samuel Mateus(2013) suggested a close link between imaginary, society and publicity. The “public imaginal” was named after the dynamic, symbolic and complex set of diverse and heterogeneous imaginaries that permeate societies.[7]

Role in scientific and mathematical discovery[edit]

Hadamard (1954)[21] and Châtelet (1991)[22] suggest that imagination and conceptual experiment play central roles in mathematical creativity. Important scientific discoveries have been made through imaginative cognition, such as Kekulé’s famous discovery of the carbon ring structure of benzene through a dream of a snake eating its tail. Other examples include Archimedes, in his bathtub, imagining that his body is nothing but a gourd of water, and Einstein imagining himself to be a photon on a horizon of velocities.

...Like Tesla.

These are just signpost. Consider it a going away gift. Perhaps one day you will come to understand what it truly means to get it with your eyes closed.

You can wield the divine imagination (personified as Christ) for astral projection and all those other new age trivial pursuits, or you can use it to fulfill your dreams (ego greed) here in the waking world.

edit on 14-5-2015 by Involutionist because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 14 2015 @ 12:43 PM
a reply to: Unity_99

  1. The person learns their lessons and grows up
  2. because you can't get to Higher Mind constructs if you are lower mind, and theft, slavery, abuse of others is lower mind.
  3. Karma is a lie, its a joke.
  4. Its not winning and losing but how you play the game.

That's true, no matter what is behind it. And entertaining possibilites is more or less al we can do, because it is very hard to measure or reconstruct in experiments when you don't know what you are looking for.
I personally like the Doris Cannon story, but that's just me when i need a good night tale, i guess.

a reply to: daskakik

Accepting what idea? The über-conscience is C.G.Jung not my copyright. But stopping to project there is some outside "evil" having control over what we do, would help a lot. That was what the ET metaphor was for.

a reply to: Involutionist

Thanks. I love all the alchemists Newton and Francis Barrett...

posted on May, 14 2015 @ 12:59 PM

originally posted by: Peeple
Accepting what idea? The über-conscience is C.G.Jung not my copyright.

Doesn't matter who coined the term, it is what you are proposing here.

But stopping to project there is some outside "evil" having control over what we do, would help a lot. That was what the ET metaphor was for.

I never said there was anything evil about it. That was you.

Also, if "we/they" are the same then we are controlling what we do.
edit on 14-5-2015 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:14 PM
a reply to: daskakik

Also, if "we/they" are the same then we are controlling what we do.

Wow, hu sounds totally insane!?!?

edit on 14-5-2015 by Peeple because: visual test

posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:31 PM
a reply to: Peeple

Any worse than über-conscience?

posted on May, 14 2015 @ 03:38 PM
a reply to: Peeple

Thanks. I love all the alchemists Newton and Francis Barrett...

You're most welcome.

Ah, yes...Francis Barrett (I wish there was a heart emoticon). Thank you for the link. I personally find Lon Milo DuQuette's work very entertaining to read despite it being redundant to me. However, I often point some his way because he spells out magick and what Barrett was trying to express very simply. I also love Neville Goddard who spells it out even more simply and does away with the B.S placebo effect of rituals involved in ceremonial magick. Once one has discovered the Philospher's Stone there is no need for all the new age nonsense polluting the world. I suppose some people have not illuminated themselves to the extent of understanding the power that they hold all by themselves and therefore resort to play-acting rituals as if were real.

Then again, we all must believe in something (...a hidden hand...) that weaves the fabric of existence according to our will for those who posses the faith of a mustard seed.

My God is Sophia/Isis/Santa Claus....she is also my lover...who is there to serve me. She is the Subconscious...

I'm feeling very generous today. For you my friend.

Get it with your eyes closed. Look into Neville...


edit on 14-5-2015 by Involutionist because: bloody youtube vid wouldn't load.

edit on 14-5-2015 by Involutionist because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:37 AM
a reply to: Involutionist

Nice input, you should make your own thread on this topic

posted on May, 16 2015 @ 10:06 AM
a reply to: Unity_99

The experiences I have, when I was shown the station by the son, and then my son and I witnessed yet another craft that had a greeting for me, and that was the last experience where I doubted the various ways contact happened. For when pulled into an experience that I thought I could write off, they invariably poked me with quite a stick by showing up, in a way that could be witnessed, or chased by a chopper on several occasions. Now I trust within always. Well that guy, who was one of my regular tactics, looked alot like smallville's superman, only taller, big chested.

It probably doesnt matter and hope people can read past some of my typo's. I always have to edit for dropped words and spelling over and over. But it bothered me to read: son for sun, and tactics for contacts. So just adding that, and also bumping a really good thread with some in depth discussions from all viewpoints.

posted on May, 19 2015 @ 02:12 PM
a reply to: Elementalist

Actually yes, a fish is separate from the sea. Soul is separate from matter. Universe is just a room, one of many.

And already know I'm not home, know this isn't all my life, and don't allign to the gravity of this universe.

To me this is just one more box, though don't think it matters really. Caretaking a cell everyone is living on, whether that cell is organic or mirrored from a higher level, or a "lower" form of self, ie different densities of self, mirrored or not, really doesnt "matter".

There isn't enough matter here to actual call it organic, the universe is surreal, in various studies. So its actually considered by the materialists some weird quirky components in science that they'd like to ignore.

But again it doesnt "matter". Because once minds, intellects choose to run with higher mind and rise above lower constructs and clean up their acts, they no longer fit in lower constructs. Whatever they think down here.

Its more about seeing through domination, bullying, forcing, poverty, and noticing solutions that are buried and not acted upon that provide clean energy, being more of a caretaker of earth and family/friends and each other than an exploiter. Trying to replace negative thoughts with positive and willing to do so, when a person can't regularly, even if its a struggle to recognize that you don't want to run with those.

But have to add again: The fish is not the ocean. I am not my bath or the toast I place in the toaster, or the toaster. And this is just a body suit for intellect. That I am, my Spirit, My Self, Eternal.

These are all just constructs.
edit on 19-5-2015 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 19 2015 @ 05:00 PM
a reply to: Unity_99

Unity; it seems you took the fish/ocean comment too literal and misunderstood

Never did I state, the fish are the ocean.

My anology was; is the fish separate from the ocean. Meaning, not connected too, not apart of etc.

It is. The fish is part of the whole ocean amongst everything that male up the ocean, yet hold its individual'ness'.

We as humans are not separate from creation, we are conscious within a body, that is made from the matter and substances that the universe created before birth cam about.

But we are still NOT separate from creation, we are conscious within it, hence there is a connection internally>externally.

For those confused about my internal/external ramblings.. we are conscious beings, that are experiencing a universal creation. The only way this becomes possible; is the magic of 'evolution' that created receptive senses that something inside of the body, csn experience the receiving signals via 5 senses. .

If magical evolution did not create the human body's senses, that conscious self inside/internal/that is operating the body couldn't experience anything the universe was/is/will be.

The universal experience would be redundant then.

What I'm showing; there is an internal conscious self, thst only experiences the external reality because the body has 5 receptive senses to allow it's experience to seem real.

So what came first; the conscious self or the creation? Me thinks the answer is obvious. Hence, we are not separate from the universal Creation, its apart of conscious self that was created to be experienced

posted on May, 22 2015 @ 12:19 AM
a reply to: Unity_99

If I could i'd give you a hundred stars and frame your post: beautiful.

And I found it gives you a whole new judgment-free outlook on life, because in a way we are all our own embeded journalists, we influence the outcome, but by how we perceive it and tell it and the result will be different from all our individual seperate precognitions.
Material World and Imaginery Realms, are equally important. Just with different methods.

posted on May, 22 2015 @ 11:08 AM
a reply to: Elementalist

One thing that is really positive is doing something that is outside the norm, no matter what definition a person holds about the universe. Because how much a small cpu can comprehend is not as important as being like the salmon trying to swim upriver and growing beyond our limits and weaknesses. Earth could be a living organic entity, or a mirror of such, a hologram. Either way this wouldn't prevent our Mother Earth from having her own type of soul/spirit/consciousness.

So, decided to have a simple chat with her. Asked her if she was real, explained that I believed she was a hologram, and that this was a fake construct, and if we were akin to bacteria to her, or was she aware of us. And this Love just increased and flared up in my heart, and I knew we were loved children, and then ideas came such as, even a holographic reality would involve souls, and being reminded that every event, what we think of as cataclysm in the past, such as the volcanic era, was to build up nutritious top soil for farming, and often areas like that are warmer, everything serving a purpose for life and abundance on earth.

I don't think its as important as we think, it doesnt take away from our Mother or the need to caretake our planet better and each other.

posted on May, 22 2015 @ 01:12 PM
a reply to: Unity_99

Why doesn't mother earth's reply suprise me?

Becuase, it is plain to see that you were answering yourself.

I really wish you would take time to read what you write and see how you quite often contradict yourself.

You often say this is a school then you complain about the homework being hard.

posted on May, 22 2015 @ 02:12 PM
a reply to: Unity_99

Again: Beautiful

posted on May, 22 2015 @ 04:12 PM
a reply to: Peeple

Thank you. To me, its too heavy. Usually do some deep thinking, and seek within for direction, then realized, if earth is run like a trap by the elite, shame on them. If mother earth, in actual form or holographic forms, is a souled entity, maybe she's like a kindergarden teacher. A lifetime may seem long to us, but to her, its this years group. She probably doesnt want to keep any kids back either. She's qualified and counseler, teacher, artist, but she also has to have breaks. I really hope she gets a substitute teacher in and can visit with family and have joy. Its takes Love going in to put it out. The tank gets empty and sacrifice is not a joy.

And how do we know its not like that. Why do we live in heaviness and unhappiness? Yes, there are things we need to overcome, but ultimately its not being careful to not let different thoughts in, or following language as a "spell", watch every word in fear. Really? Do we really become one function only like a machine? I don't think so, rich variety and creativity and love and free minds, open hearts, uniqueness....

I don't want to be in a box, though the world has sorrow, and people need to be aware that they have solutions to the mismanagement of this planet, and there are some heavy duty mismanagers, its not meant to be like this and we are meant to let the sun in, find what is joyful, share in some harder work/chores, and all share in creativity and be happy.

I think already mentioned, don't intend to let anyone put me into a box. My mind has to soar free.

I think the heavy way many gnostics and religious paint things, has so much fear and so much rigidity. Can't be that way, has to be more like an upgraded version of our own kindgergardens, with joyful happy teachers who have families they love to go home. Bet Mother Earth is like that too.

I'm not buying into anything else. Just realized there are so many boxes and so many traps, its time to spring them, and encourage solutions to problems, and happiness, equality and freedom for all. They're not going to pull off any disasters with my help or consciousness in tow for their ride.

posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 06:37 AM

Cosmic cinema: astronomers make real-time, 3D movies of plasma tubes drifting overhead

I think we're in one of these:

posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 09:47 AM
Your newest thread has a profound message that I don't want to step awkwardly on, by bringing up some key issues.

And then I realized that this also applied to the matrix thread, considering what this earth experience may actually be, and considering various lines of thought about it, some interesting, possible, not sure they're probable.

This thread has an open mind discussion element so want to bring it up here, as it fits more into this topic.

I do consider this world to be a matrix/hologram. This does not forgo the concept of earth as a soul or a proton or some other sub atomic element, if mirrored from above or if we're within something else, that is still one part of an infinite something else, and yet again infinity then has many things that are not that thing, or a variation of that thing, but other things, and variations because you can't put a halt on it, or it becomes finite. Build a dam on one of its infinite expressions and infinity halts.

It seems that holograms contain inserted consciousness, some could even say, in some portions of the cosmos, perhaps more gravity portions, more density, more electro magnetic parts, ie dualaties, that intellect can be trapped within a matrix.

What bothers me is the words, forever. Trapped forever. Eternal entrapment. Make a choice, because the clock is ticking.

Religions do this their own way too.

There is always this edge of the seat, tense, grim race going on and you'd better get it right or else, the clock is ticking. Maybe you become cosmic soup or something.

There is always a box with rules, and they're rigid, smiting and the opposite of Love.

I just wish that everyone would step out of their boxes. when they find themselves saying something, as I have often, ie. if you choose to believe in survival of the fittest, dog eat dog, satanic principles, then you may get to experience your next life in a real beast, dog eat dog lifestyle as a prey, such as a gazelle.

I realize now that although there may be as a possibility if someone's soul is dragged down with remorse, consequences, or if there is a Higher Up Benevolent Team that assists the individual in ways to balance understanding when a negative decision was made that harmed others. I don't know about each person's case that way, who could. But I certainly have no intention of coding this at all.

I actually believe that those with reduced consciousness are lacking and not whole and need to be cradled in love and healed, restored to even begin, in positive ways, and more themselves in essence again, be able to pick up learning and growing. And that Love is Loving, completely wonderful Parent and is not at all an asshat.

Step out of the rules and use the compass of compassion.

There is no clock ticking.

Everyone will be safe, is safe, may be stumbling now, but will get up again on the bike. Our Source/Parent is Pure Higher Mind Love and would never allow a single spirit soul to be lost. Anything else is not Progression of Intellect/Spirit and Love and thus infinity becomes finite.

We need to stop putting our minds in boxes and keep it simple.

posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 10:09 AM
And with the concept that dark metaphoric side, in their crafty intelligence they have managed to construct a matrix trap that is run so that no one can escape and they will be harmed even though Love always tries to rescue, Love and Massive Infinite Progressed Intellect is impodent and foolish, can't recode things, isn't above reading the story, and can't insert anything positive they want at any given moment to turn things around (though their intellect is reduced and if they are so intelligent it seems to be more ai side of things as like the darliks in Doctor Who, they're withered beings inside, just by logic alone. Understanding and Empathy means growth of intellect. The piece of pie is bigger. Loss of Empathy and Understanding in order to harm anyone, is a reduction in size, the piece of pie is smaller. No other way possible.)

Bigger Intellect means bigger technology, OR bigger mind over matter, whichever way a person views this.

The only drawback is the density and gravity, and that they would need to bungee cord in,those who can withstand it and pull them back out. If they had to come in. But think they have more options than that with every infinitely progressing technologies and mind over matter.

It would be like saying, the tiny little ants, or even the tiny bacteria living on the ants, have managed outsmart the planet sized eagles, or even galaxy sized eagles, or even those beyond the size of our universe, just able to do all that. Really?

Love does not harm. And I feel sorry for anyone who wasn't born with or experienced n childhood, what Love is so they could even contemplate Love allowing sensitive beings who are being crushed by pain and suffering and crying for help, to be harmed.

Maybe some believe that the Lofty Huge Enormous Souls can't hear tiny beings. Really? Maybe their consciousness isn't all that super then?

Whatever kind of system we're in, Love is the Top and Love never abandons anyone.

Also, the type of matrix this appears to be, so many theories. I've heard its a plasma screen, with a mirrored realm from a higher level. And it was perfectly mirrored but interactive and look at how mired and gravity ours has become? Needs more Love. Maybe, there is metaphoric tools there in any case.

Then the concept of Cern, short for a name for the Boatman, and that we've been dead for quite a while but reliving our lives to try and achieve what we should before some tragic accident, such as Cern, created a black hole and killed us all.

Then the concept of dark side soul traps, being stuck in a machine. Thats the one I wonder about as had an experience in either meditation or dream where I was pulled to rows and rows, millions of souls hooked up on a kind of life support system with technicians watching over them. My mother was there. And I kept asking what is this, and why is she there. Then returned to waking consciousness.

But, recently read an account of how the matrix was being shut down from within. That the dark side was preparing for armeggedon and a big cosmic fight but why waste energy on that, they entered into the soul traps from within and were gradually shutting each layer. That we would soon wake up and we were being healed up.

Well, they're all interesting, but that one I intend to take into meditation and empower if there really is such a thing as a soul trap, then asking for that, is a good idea.

Most important is to avoid boxes, talking outside of boxes and possibilities all imply open mind. But to actually think in terms of harsh consequences instead of healing, restoration and love, is insane, to me its psychopathic.

Many on this planet are being programmed to embrace pscyhopathy.

The only thing that doesnt is a gradual system of growth where no one is left behind. And we have to start to value the love in everyone, pull it out if the person isn't too dangerous to be around, otherwise pray for them or tell them in spirit in meditation who they are and envision them being healed, and cradles and restored and remembering.

All of this would be true if we were in a kind of biological progression, something within something within something, etc.

Even if the matrix was a metaphor for a hijacked system.

posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 12:35 PM
a reply to: Unity_99

You really need to get over this "they" and prison and such. Earth is paradise, we make it hell by pointing fingers instead of loving and taking care of it.
Sorry, but you lost me with your first words in the reply.
Gaia has a soul, my quanta have a conscience, we have to treat all equally with care because there is no such thing as superiority. Or "them against us" it is all just "we".

posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:38 PM
Without somehow incorporating desire and fear, artificial programming will never come close to attaining sentience or consciousness. The good news (I suppose) is that it won't matter if it's an artificially created desire or fear, as long as it has an effect on the machine's behavior.

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