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NLBS #48: The United States Is Not, And Never Was, A Christian Nation

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posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: Gorman91

Nice deflection to ignore the point and focus on a minor typo. Well done!




posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: Gorman91

What does your quote prove? Are you claiming that the founding fathers believed that a "natural god" wears masks? If so, why not just say that all gods are masks of the "One True God"? Osiris, Baal, Shiva, Astarte, Zeus, Odin, Hercules, The Great Spirit, Allah, Abba? Oh, right, because those are counterfeit gods, according to Christians! And there's that annoying little tidbit from the Old Testament, "Thou shall have no other gods before me".

Nope, a natural god is not the same as an of the Biblical gods, not by any stretch of the imagination.


(post by Gorman91 removed for a manners violation)

posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: Gorman91




Folds of one. Three in one. Let's not get into trinitarian concepts when talking about a question of "which God".


Why not? Is it because a trinitarian god is unnatural?



Folds of one.


Ah! Gotta love Pythagoras!



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: windword

I mean idk if it's true, but the local freemasons I know believe like that. I guess I just thought that was common knowledge.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: windword

I don't find a trinitarian God unnatural. From a scientific perspective it makes decent sense. The flow of time has a past, present, and future. And in the scriptures, Jesus is talking to Moses and Elijah. Some like me would argue he was physically talking to them to the past when they heard him. As in, an all powerful God above time itself. To Abraham and Elijah, he is father. The future coming savior. To those present, the son of the past. The one promised having come. To those in the future like us, he is Spirit. The words and actions rippling through time that still echo to us, even though he is gone.

Lame scientific/rational explanation of a trinity, but whatever.
edit on 15-5-2015 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-5-2015 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: Gorman91

[Kinda hard to understand what you're saying when you can't spell.]

Nice deflection to ignore the point and focus on a minor typo. Well done!


A telling sign of desperation when someone is cornered into the losing side of an argument.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: windword

I don't see any corners.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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It's trendy to slam on religion particularly Christianity. Go get em bandwagon tigers you show them Christians!



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: Gorman91
a reply to: windword

I mean idk if it's true, but the local freemasons I know believe like that. I guess I just thought that was common knowledge.


What has that got to do with anything? Are your freemasons deriving their philosophy from Kabbalah, The Rosicrucians, Masonry, classic or orthodox Christianity?



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: Gorman91
Pretty sure "Abraham God" is singular.

Not when you consider the Trinity of the Christian interpretation of Abraham's God.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: windword

Well the founders were free masons. And either you or another mentioned that's the Natural God they were after.

Free Masons come out of a cult of reason that branched off from Christianity. Probably an attempt to take ancient concepts and Christianize them. Like Neo-stoics and neo-platonists.

Hell, the orthodox church's philosophy on Christ's actions is a direct extrapolation of neoplatonism onto the concept.

That doesn't make them non-christian though. Unless, idk, you consider the Orthodox church un-christian.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:42 PM
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a reply to: Gorman91




I don't find a trinitarian God unnatural. The flow of time has a past, present, and future.


Time isn't tangible.

A trinitarian god is unnatural for a number of reason, but the first being, there is nothing in a tangible reality's existence that has 3 side. The first Platonic solid that can exist MUST have 4 sides. Therefore, the 4 fold nature of god.




The 4 fold expression of God


The 5 fold expression of god


edit on 15-5-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: Gorman91
a reply to: windword

Well the founders were free masons. And either you or another mentioned that's the Natural God they were after.


Not exactly. While, yes, SOME of the founding fathers were freemasons, by no means were ALL of them freemasons. Freemasons among the U.S. Founding Fathers



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:53 PM
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a reply to: Gorman91




Free Masons come out of a cult of reason that branched off from Christianity.


Not really.

Freemasonry comes out of Jewish mysticism, Kabbalah.



The Kabbalah and Freemasonry



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:06 PM
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originally posted by: Gorman91
a reply to: Barcs

lol. Are you serious? Please, great scholar, show me a source or citation that is not a person/work.

The topic is the separation of church and state. The concept originates from Luther. If you think no connection exists, you're seriously hilarious.


Are YOU serious? You still refuse to back up what I asked for. I never said there was NO connection. Sourcing Martin Luther is irrelevant when talking about the founding fathers and their meaning of the word secular. If you are trying to prove that Martin Luther meant something different by his meaning of the word, then you might have a point, but we are talking founding fathers and how they established America as a secular nation, not Martin Luther's views, who died 200+ years before America was founded. Basically Martin Luther is a big red herring here.

I guess this means you won't be backing up your claim. Par for the course I suppose when blinded by religion.


Somehow you take Christians disagreeing on the bible = America isn't Christian....


It's really simple. We are not allowed to put laws based on religion into effect. That is what it means to be a secular nation. If we were a Christian nation, we'd have Christianity as our national religion and everyone would be stuck with it, regardless of your personal beliefs. Our government would also follow Christian principles, but it clearly does not.


nah, because you're using the 21st century definition of secular, not the 18th century one.

Still waiting for your citation that 18th century meaning of secular is different. Martin Luther is 16th century.


originally posted by: hudsonhawk69
But it is a shop? Go ahead, don't be shy. post the whole quote. don't quote me out of context please.
It makes little difference what the building is. A building built by christians is a building for christaians... Or better still. A building inhabited by christians is a building FOR christians!


That's silly reasoning and that mentality only leads to the exclusion of others based on petty differences. Our nation is like 70% Christian, so Christians have built tons of things. That doesn't mean that everything they built was specifically for Christians only. That's pure nonsense. The buildings are built for everybody, unless they are churches or Christian based businesses (ie christian book store that sells only books about christianity). So if Jewish construction workers built a library it would be a Jewish library build for Jews only? I'm not following your logic as a library is public for everybody.
edit on 15-5-2015 by Barcs because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-5-2015 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: FearYourMind
I don't think anyone is upset about a agenda to convert a whole nation. I think Christians are just tired of the constant ridicule and attacks on their religion.


Poor Christians. They have it so rough having to deal with people on the internet ridiculing them. How horrible. I mean seriously, we're talking about the religion that was originally spread via the sword, and held the western world in a strangle-hold for 1500 years and had non believers tortured and executed. No offense, but you guys have ruled the world with an iron fist for a long time. You've had your day in the sun, it's time to step back and start focusing on good deeds and common goals.

Given all that, Christianity has evolved and gotten much more tolerant, BUT fundies are still around and still constantly attack science with ignorant unfounded statements, so they only bring the ridicule on themselves. When folks ridicule them, it's not ridiculing all Christians, only the ones with fundamentalist views that unjustifiably attack science with nothing more than rhetoric and misunderstandings due to lack of actually studying science.


We are Americans, yet we can't accept people's differences. We lack tolerance and the ability to see life through the perspective of others. This doesn't exclude Christians either. Everyone is guilty.


I agree wholeheartedly. People focus more on their differences than what they have in common. All religions are essentially different pathways to the same ultimate goal. I just wish more religious folks would realize this instead of maintaining the viewpoint that their way is absolute truth and the only way, while all others are wrong. You're right, atheists and others are guilty of this too.

I do agree with your church's views, they sound very tolerant and understanding of others. It's quite refreshing to see this kind of thing. Props.

edit on 15-5-2015 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:42 PM
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originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Gorman91

Non Religious is a synonym of secular

A synonym is a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase in the same language. Words that are synonyms are said to be synonymous, and the state of being a synonym is called synonymy


Good point. Many folks seem to be making it out to be "anti-religion" rather than unaffiliated with religion. There is a big difference.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:49 PM
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This country was founded upon pagan and satanic principles, and it doesn't take much digging to come to that conclusion.


Let us not forget that the Illuminati was established in 1776. Their plans were established before this nations existence.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:53 PM
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originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I agree with your assessment of the usage of the word God and how there are many religions it can be attributed to, however, the founding fathers of this country, USA, arrived here from a predominately Christian based society and therefore by the fruits of the poisonous tree one can draw a reasonable conclusion when they put IN GOD WE TRUST on the currency they were not referring to any of the other religious Gods you mention.


Actually they purposely used the word "god" and not Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah, etc because they wanted it to apply of everyone's idea of god. That was how the founding fathers believed it to be. Many of the prominent ones were masons and referenced "G" for god, because it wasn't specifically one god over another. It was meant to refer to everyone's god as one. Unfortunately it unfairly excludes atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, Taoists, etc. Remember the founding fathers were largely deists.


Deism is a natural religion. Deists believe in the existence of God, on purely rational grounds, without any reliance on revealed religion or religious authority or holy text. Because of this, Deism is quite different from religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam.


Deism pretty much opens up the door for god to mean anything. For example the view held by Einstein and others that the universe IS god, rather than god being an intelligent interfering entity. That was the goal at least.
edit on 15-5-2015 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



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