NLBS #48: The United States Is Not, And Never Was, A Christian Nation

a reply to: hudsonhawk69

You are the one who made the claim. Nobody else.

Anyway I think I'll stop responding to you for a while since you have insulted me a few times. Maybe if you'd be nicer and amicable in the future posts I'll respond. Just to think I even starred one of your posts where you thanked the other guy for clarification. I thought you understood. But anyway I'll let others reply to you.

a reply to: theNLBS

Ever read the words in the currency....IN GOD WE TRUST....seems very christian to me!

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: theNLBS

Ever read the words in the currency....IN GOD WE TRUST....seems very christian to me!

That came along way after the nation was founded. What that came from is the infiltration and subversion of Government by the Christians who are striving to install a Christian Theocracy in place of our Government. They've working very hard at it for a long time.

a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

When I see "In God We Trust" on our money, it makes me think that, for America, God IS money.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Good stuff, Grimpachi!

a reply to: artistpoet

I don't remember Albania having the same policy as America.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

We use the same words, but they don't mean the same because I'm using the words as they meant 300 years ago.

A secular state in Luther's works was not a non-christian one so much as a non-choosing one. It existed to protect sects from Papal-like forces of forced doctrine. It did not exist to serve the Pope. That's what made is secular. That's what the Founding Father's meant when they said America was not a Christian Nation. We do not bow to the pope, the queen, the bishop of Canterbury, the bishop of Istanbul, etc etc.

That doesn't mean we're not a Christian nation in the context of what you're saying. It means we're not a Christian nation in the context of the above.

a reply to: Gorman91

You made our heads hurt with your twisted logic.

That's what made is secular. That's what the Founding Father's meant when they said America was not a Christian Nation. We do not bow to the pope, the queen, the bishop of Canterbury, the bishop of Istanbul, etc etc.

Um again this isn't debatable? You are still agreeing with us without understanding why.

The separation of church and state was created to make sure that we are not forced to bow to anyone or to believe any religion.

A secular state in Luther's works was not a non-christian one so much as a non-choosing one.

As it have been explained many times to you in this thread Luther's works are one of many "doctrines" and concepts and other works and governments and nations and many philosophies that they have learned and gathered. Luther's works are not unique.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

As I've said many times, there's many different sources for the many doctrines, policies, and laws, for the US government. For the separation of church and state? That would be Luther.

You seem to have this rather strange view that you can because Zeno influenced our model of a republic, that therefore he also modeled our policy of separation of church and state. That's a rather silly argument.

I am not agreeing with you, because I see no problem with an individual state creating a law that says you can, say, fire people for being gay, or hell, for being a different skin color, for religious reasons. People have that right in my opinion. They simply do not have a right, at the federal level, to favor them or anyone else. A business has a right to fire someone for being black, gay, whatever. The government does not.

That's how secular works in my opinion.

a reply to: Gorman91

A business has a right to fire someone for being black, gay, whatever.

Ah now we see your true color. Goodbye.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Hardly my true colors, seeing as I disagree with such actions.

Though I understand if you find that mentally challenging. Only great men found governments and say things like "I disagree with you but support your right"

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
Ever read the words in the currency....IN GOD WE TRUST....seems very christian to me!

Ever watch a video on which a thread is based? It's explained in the video.

And, which God is referring to?

God of Abraham (Christians, Jews, Muslims)?

Vishnu for Hindus?

The Kami of Shintoism?

The single God of 99 names of Sikhism?

Iya the Sioux God?

Isis the Egyptian God?

Kanati the Cherokee God?

Buddha?

The many Gods of Jainism?


Simply saying, "God," is very vague as humanity has many.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

According to Luther, Abrahamic God.

originally posted by: Gorman91
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

According to Luther, Abrahamic God.

According to the Founders, just God.

Not Yahway, Not Jesus, Not Lord the Father God. They could have said any of those, but didn't.

a reply to: mOjOm

They said Luther. Which means they were in the lens of the Abrahamic God.

originally posted by: Gorman91

I am not agreeing with you, because I see no problem with an individual state creating a law that says you can, say, fire people for being gay, or hell, for being a different skin color, for religious reasons. People have that right in my opinion. They simply do not have a right, at the federal level, to favor them or anyone else. A business has a right to fire someone for being black, gay, whatever. The government does not.

That's how secular works in my opinion.

I don't see how that is in line with secular. I don't see what that has to do with anything at all so far actually. Besides I'd say that kind of perspective comes from Religion more than Secularism. But in either case some of us have wised up enough to understand that simply being Black, Gay or whatever aren't reasons by themselves to treat anyone better or worse than anyone else.

originally posted by: Gorman91
a reply to: mOjOm

They said Luther. Which means they were in the lens of the Abrahamic God.

Who said Luther and where did they say it???

a reply to: mOjOm

Oh how cute. You think because I think they have a right, that I agree with them.

Such a simple mind.

a reply to: mOjOm

Madison. Quote's a bit back. Google search the two names. I'm sure something will come up.

Luther founded the idea of the separation of Church and state in his Two Kingdoms doctrinaire, though as others have noted, this idea comes from St Paul.

Madison said the concept of the separation of church and state was lead by Luther.

In Madison's day, when you said you were not a Christian nation, it meant you did not bow to a religious head. It does not equal what we think when we say secular. It meant what Luther said.