NLBS #48: The United States Is Not, And Never Was, A Christian Nation

a reply to: theNLBS

Great show! Keep them coming, Joe.

originally posted by: BestinShow

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: BestinShow

sounds like you wish it was a christian nation.

No, I don't...I find religion a poor substitute for personal responsibility.

I just don't do things half-ass'd...kinda like your perception of my previous post.

i dont see why you felt the need to be offensive with your response considering my post wasnt in the least offensive. i made an observation and you decided to kick me in the shin instead of politely correcting me.

your horse isnt nearly so high as all that, good sir. but you might be having a bad day...so how about a hug?

Thank you Joe!!!!!! Awesome NLBS!!!!

Is so frustrating every time I hear someone say we are a Christian Nation.

Say didn't one of the presidents (not a founding father) call atheists not citizens or something?

For those interested in finding out more about John Locke.

John Locke.

Founding Fathers who were deist.

Hope these are useful.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
Locke didn't play a role in the founding of the US. However, Thomas Jefferson was influenced by Locke's "Natural Rights" theories, which were revolutionary ideas in England at the time (late 1600's). But while he advocated tolerance of other religions, he staunchly would not tolerate atheism, which the founding fathers did tolerate.

Exactly. He didn't tolerate Catholics, either, saying that they had an allegiance to an external ruler (I assume that's the Pope?) John Locke may have been a Christian and may have had some influence over the founding fathers, but those two facts don't come together to mean anything...

Locke believed that there is a distinct and inseparable connection between religion and morality. Without the acceptance of God, or any supreme and omnipotent being, as a basic truth, one’s morals and ethics were questionable at best. In Locke’s Essay Concerning Human Understanding, he discusses the progression of man’s thought process; how we develop opinions and ideas, as well as the role religion plays in our general understanding of life.
...
A main threat atheists pose to society, “in addition to problems with attaining a complete understanding of moral principles,” (Lorenzo, 253) comes from their disbelief in an afterlife, namely the lack of later punishment for earthly blunders. Without the fear of eternal damnation, atheists are “threats to social order and state security” (Lorenzo, 258). This perception is a direct result of the importance Locke put on the individual experience. He fervently articulates the lack of innate morals and while he allows for a certain understanding of right and wrong to be absorbed through the use of our senses, true morality comes from what we are taught; but it is not enough to learn about morality. Just as incentive is necessary for man to enter into society, there must be incentive to act within moral bounds; atheists lack this incentive.

Many people today believe the same crap. John Locke On Equality, Toleration, and the Atheist Exception

Well surprise ,surprise .... NOT .

america , you're lack of faith has led you along a crooked road .
you have reached the dead end.


God's will , (that'd be the christian and Muslim one)
....you know the guy you lip service ,then steal His wallet ,
is watching over your demise and has given up on your redemption.
Too far gone . possessed .
your bywords are , corruption and greed .
with these two words , you justify and sanitise your crimes ,
against everybody you can .
You broadcast your lies daily to a horrified planet ,
and you think no-one knows ?

Most of your Godless forefathers are where they belong for eternity.
.... and it's hot and dark there .

anyway good luck with being the evil clown thing ,
there is no second prize .:

This was probably the best NLBS I have seen.

a reply to: radarloveguy

You really don't know much about the "forefathers" do you?

The vast majority did indeed believe in a Supreme Being. God, if you will.

What they didn't believe in was an interfering deity. Because an interfering deity flies in the face of God's granting us free will, doesn't it?

originally posted by: seagull

Given that the U.S. is a very religious nation, I'm not sure how one can get away from religious influences in Govt.? For better or for worse, it's going to happen.

People personal beliefs will always influence their thinking to some degree, this cannot be avoided. However, there is a difference between someone's beliefs influencing their decisions in their official duties and allowing those beliefs to dominate every choice you have to make.

Those who are in office, while they may have their own personal feeling and thoughts about certain issues it doesn't remove them from their duty and obligation to do their job, which is to represent the people of this country. Sometimes that might mean doing something other than what they might personally want to do, but they should do it anyway.

a reply to: howmuch4another

I'll go along with that.

a reply to: mOjOm

I agree with you totally.

I just think it's not as easy as we might wish it to be. Politicians are, by their very nature, go along to get along creatures... Or maybe go along to get reelected creatures is a better way to phrase it.

a reply to: seagull

I think you're right. In fact I imagine what is even more dangerous than our politicians letting their own personal beliefs influence them is the fact that their personal beliefs seem to be heavily influenced by whoever pays them the most.

Religious yes,Christian no not really,

a reply to: seagull

your free will does NOT extend to breaking the Ten Commandments.

Only witchcraft delights in tempting judgement from a

RIGHTEOUS God .

BE Warned .

a reply to: theNLBS

• America was founded with the following philosophy in mind – The amplification of Ethics, personal growth, tolerance, education, diversity, philanthropy, family, community.
• The Declaration of Independence was a proclamation of the basis of this new and free country.
• Church must be separated from State.
• The United States Constitution and the Amendments allows equal protections for the individual and the collective and no-one must ever be negatively impacted by the decisions or actions of an individual or the collective.

Even the most vehement atheist will hold dear to those rites and values so yes, the US being a Christian nation is an opinion and has no basis in historic fact.

a reply to: mOjOm

Agree, again. (This is a trend...)

That's why it's up to us, as citizens to be involved.

If over the top religious folks are the only ones involved, then that's what's going to effect the thinking and actions of the politicians in office.

If the electorate is a much more balanced electorate, so too, IMHO will the politicians be.

So it's really no ones fault but our own that we find ourselves in this current state of affairs...

a reply to: radarloveguy

Feel free to warn me. Not really worried about the state of my soul.

As for the Ten Commandments? Those rules are set forth by nearly every religion on Earth. ...and some of 'em before Christianity got around to it...

They aren't terribly original.

a reply to: radarloveguy

If breaking commandments resulted in God's Wrath upon the nation then the USA wouldn't never of made it off the ground in the first place. If you honestly think we have only recently started breaking those rules you haven't been paying attention.

Witchcraft, really man??? Do you believe in Goochers, Rabbits feet and broken mirrors too??? Stuff like that is exactly why the Founders didn't want Religion to dominate Government.

a reply to: seagull

"That's what the dinosaurs said"

- NOAH -

Well it certainly isn't now.

Right now the US is the most
Christophobic
nation that isn't predominately Muslim.