NLBS #48: The United States Is Not, And Never Was, A Christian Nation

a reply to: Grimpachi

Frustrating isn't it. They don't care about the facts. How many of the arguments in the last few pages have already either been covered or simply don't even matter as they are just opinions???

It's like arguing with big cow that has wondered onto your lawn. You can present all the facts in the world, yell and scream, use absolutely flawless reasoning and logic to prove your point and he's still just going to look at you with those big eyes and blank look and say, "Moo???"

a reply to: mOjOm

I know. I may start posting "beat a dead horse awards" soon.

The founders have spoken on the issue and they were very clear about it....yet...it just doesn't sink in with them.

a reply to: Grimpachi

So by that you would have to agree that if Islam became the majority religion then the country is based off of Islam.

If in 50 years 75% of the population of America affiliated themselves with Islam, then yes. Countries can change, look at the Roman empire started pagan, ended Christian.

I am going with the cultural not the secular and this is the where the disagreement is, culture controls a lot.
Your culture base majority will have a heavy influence on the country.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

It doesn't matter what the culture is we are a nation of laws based off of the constitution. If the culture one day changes those laws and disregards that constitution then we will no longer be the United States of America and at that time the founding fathers will be those who destroyed the old system.

BTW Rome is a horrible example since they were a theocracy.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33

If in 50 years 75% of the population of America affiliated themselves with Islam, then yes. Countries can change, look at the Roman empire started pagan, ended Christian.

I am going with the cultural not the secular and this is the where the disagreement is, culture controls a lot.
Your culture base majority will have a heavy influence on the country.

Ok, look, we understand your position and the data that you're using to get there. The problem is that none of it actually matters as far as this topic goes.

KEEP READING.....I'll EXPLAIN....

I'm not saying you're wrong or that the information you present and how you are making your argument is wrong either. Your information is sound and your interpretation I agree is correct in how you are using it but it doesn't change the fact that the founders of this country Clearly Stated and Voted For Unanimously against the idea that they were Creating a "Christian Nation".

It doesn't matter if you tally up everyone and there is 90% Christians living here. Although, from a majority head count you could label it that way, but that's not exactly what the topic is.

Hopefully I wrote that correctly and you see what I'm saying and it doesn't come off sounding mean or insulting. Because I don't mean it that way and if the topic was something slightly different I'd actually agree with you. I just don't think your position is one that addresses or opposes this one correctly.

It would be confusing if the nation contains 50% Muslims and 50% Christians.

What would we call it?

Christoislamic nation?

Another way would be using an example. That works for me personally sometimes so I'll try that.

In front of you is a pie. 3/4 of it is filled with apples. Common sense dictates you'd call that an apple pie.

However, I walk up to you and inform you that I made that pie myself. That it's not an apple pie but a fruit pie. The other 1/4 of it is filled with other fruit besides apples.

Now, is it not an apple pie anymore??? No, not exactly, it most certainly is, in fact apples make up most of it. But I created the pie, I called it a Fruit pie which is technically more accurate than just calling it an apple pie. Which when looking at all the facts does make it a fruit pie. By Name, By Creation and By Composition.

It's not that Apple Pie is incorrect. It's just that Fruit Pie is More Correct and Completely True.

a reply to: theNLBS

Yes it was!!! The reason why they put the clause in the Constitution was so Catholicism could not be forced on the people like it was in England. They had enough of the Catholic Churches flat Corruption, outright manipulation of the true word of God and its support of despot Kings. That is the ONLY reason it was wrote into the first Amendment and they were mostly all Christian to the core so keep spewing your anti-religion, anti God thread but it will not bother or change one Christians view so what is the point???

This nation was very blessed for along, long time. Right up till the majority started turning away from God. The U.S. will suffer more and more for it. Slaughtering millions of unborn babies every year is going to get us a Biblical punishment like no other in world history.

a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

Stop being ridiculous.

I love how some of you guys like to say things like that. All the while, ignoring your murderous asshole of a God and his deeds in the Old Testament like his crap doesn't stink. I am really fed up with this ignorance.

I respect your right though.

Pity a lot of you can't say the same.

a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

This nation was very blessed for along, long time. Right up till the majority started turning away from God.

Really so when was that? Was it during the Indian massacres? Was it when slavery was legal? Was it when the only ones that were allowed to vote were land owning white males? Maybe it was later when segregation was in full swing.

Your fantasy America never existed and you are dead wrong about the intentions of the founding fathers and their personal beliefs but we know you will keep believing Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh and their ilk while ignoring the real history of the US.

The Christian right which is trying to re-write history to suit their faith is pushing us ever closer to another dark age. In Texas they have re-written history for the classroom removing prominent founding fathers and replacing them with Moses. Islam faced such a crossroads when Imam al-Ghaazali's influence turned their culture from an enlightened and educated culture to what it is today. One of his statements was "manipulating numbers is the work of the devil" which destroyed their history of Astronomy, engineering, and agriculture. Algebra, algorithm, and aribic numerals are Arabic words and traceable to the Islamic Golden Age. The word "arithmetic" is Arabic and they were far beyond other cultures with it as well as them having an inclusive society for all and then fundamentalism set in and re-writing of their history and tenants.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge
a reply to: theNLBS

Yes it was!!! The reason why they put the clause in the Constitution was so Catholicism could not be forced on the people like it was in England. They had enough of the Catholic Churches flat Corruption, outright manipulation of the true word of God and its support of despot Kings. That is the ONLY reason it was wrote into the first Amendment and they were mostly all Christian to the core so keep spewing your anti-religion, anti God thread but it will not bother or change one Christians view so what is the point???

Since when has the Church of England been considered Catholic?

originally posted by: hudsonhawk69
a reply to: theNLBS
www.forbes.com...

An extremely biased blogger for the Forbes Sites section, who, in his bio, starts with this: "I am a Christian…" He's also only ever written six blog posts for Forbes Sites, and was clearly let go three years ago.

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme
Since when has the Church of England been considered Catholic?

As has been clear in some of the responses in this thread, facts only get in the way of a good argument.

a reply to: mOjOm

I agree they never created a specifically Christian nation, but the culture was Christian, above and beyond that they wanted a nation that all people could have liberty and freedom including non-Christians.

Then there is this

"In God We Trust" was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956 as an alternative or replacement to the unofficial motto of E pluribus unum, which was adopted when the Great Seal of the United States was created and adopted in 1782.Secularists have expressed objections to its use, and have sought to have the religious reference removed from the currency.

"In God we trust" first appeared on U.S. coins in 1864and has appeared on paper currency since 1957. A law passed in a Joint Resolution by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by President Dwight Eisenhower on July 30, 1956 declared IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States.

Its not a christian nation but Christians have always been a majority in the country. The whole thing was in trying to keep religion out of government church and state, which sort of worked sort of did not, but in all its like trying to keep money out of government, its bound to fail. For the most part yes the majority were Christians even way back when there was a mass migration from Europe, even Europe itself its most prominent religion was Christianity and version of said region.

Now a days its still pretty common though its likely that in time Europe as a majority may turn Muslim, and in the Americas its still likely that Christianity will be the most wildly held religion. Its just prudent to keep state and religion apart unless you want this whole thing to turn into some weird bizarre rules and regulation around like they have in the more religious countries like the middle east. But money in government is likely to be a much bigger hurdle then religion is, and this whole thing is just getting started, it wont likely stop any time this generation or your kids kids generation.

So when you say its not a christian nation, its all just a matter of what you mean by it and in what context you put it.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Personally I find the idea of putting "In God We Trust" on our money to be a horrible idea. Horrible in the sense that it's blasphemous toward God and I'm not even Religious.

To me it just makes Money into a Replacement Symbol for God. In other words we Worship Money.

I find it strange that so many religious people think the opposite too. Especially with all the other occult symbolism that is also on money it really seems wrong. But maybe it's just me.

Not a Christian nation but a nation of Christians.

Every president knows it very well and would be foolish to alienate such a large part of their voting base. e.g. Dubya and his miraculous conversion to born again Christian.

Certainly not a country where religion is a private matter like in countries where there is a real separation between Church and state

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge
a reply to: theNLBS

Yes it was!!! The reason why they put the clause in the Constitution was so Catholicism could not be forced on the people like it was in England. They had enough of the Catholic Churches flat Corruption, outright manipulation of the true word of God and its support of despot Kings. That is the ONLY reason it was wrote into the first Amendment and they were mostly all Christian to the core so keep spewing your anti-religion, anti God thread but it will not bother or change one Christians view so what is the point???

Since when has the Church of England been considered Catholic?

Not very familiar with history of religions are you?

Protestant like the Church of England don't like the imperialism of the Catholic Church. The US was founded mainly by protestants.

Thus the US are historically not very Catholic neither.

Your quoted post never said rhe Church of England was Catholic. It said the exact opposite

originally posted by: TSZodiac

I beg to differ - i suggest that you brush up on the 10 Commandments.

Maybe you can show us where all Ten Commandments are codified in United States Civil or Criminal Law.

You would be lucky to get three, I suggest you follow your own advice and brush up on them.