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NLBS #48: The United States Is Not, And Never Was, A Christian Nation

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posted on May, 12 2015 @ 04:47 PM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Why would that matter? Actions and words are two very different things. I'm sure they said slavery was bad too. Yet they owned slaves.




posted on May, 12 2015 @ 04:48 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

No, we are actually a republic with very strong oligarchical trends.

America was never a democracy beyond the local state level. And it never will be. You want a democracy, move to Europe or India.

And behold, even they have sky fairies. We the people, have religion. Like it or not.
edit on 12-5-2015 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 06:16 PM
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I beg to differ - i suggest that you brush up on the 10 Commandments.....a reply to: AugustusMasonicus



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: AutumnWitch657

True, but it's the Christian God being referred to. At least, that's who the people who put it there were referring to. I suppose it's open enough to interpretation though.



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 06:42 PM
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edit on 12-5-2015 by DontTreadOnMe94 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 06:48 PM
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originally posted by: Gorman91
a reply to: TzarChasm

No, we are actually a republic with very strong oligarchical trends.

America was never a democracy beyond the local state level. And it never will be. You want a democracy, move to Europe or India.

And behold, even they have sky fairies. We the people, have religion. Like it or not.


we the people have the freedom of religion, but not the right to legislate based on it, thank god. (giggity)



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 06:58 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Gorman91


They wanted a secular state. But their secular was not your secular. Their views were not yours. What you want from a secular state is not what they wanted. If they were alive today, they would not have said they wanted a secular state. They would have said they wanted, frankly, the western liberal equivalent of ISIS.


but we have democracy now. we the people have the power, not some sky fairy.

thats how it should be.

Actually, we have a Republic with a modicum of integrated democratic principles.


a republic oligarchy, yes. but the fact remains that legislature is not pulled from any spiritual book. the bible is not consulted in congress. the president doesnt take his cues from the pope.

laws are decided by the people we choose. the people we put in office. and if it has to happen, we can take them back out of office. thats why we have the right to bear arms, against all enemies foreign and domestic.

so its basically respect our rights and our voice, or we will exercise them both. with great fervor.



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 07:11 PM
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a reply to: TSZodiac

I find these much more interesting

The Declaration of Innocence Of The Dead Before the Gods of the Tribunal At The Weighing Of The Heart

From ... The Book of Going Forth By Day (The Egyptian Book Of The Dead) (The Papyrus of Ani)

I have not done wrong.
I have not robbed
I have not stolen.
I have not killed people.
I have not destroyed food offerings.
I have not reduced the measures (possibly meaning cheating the grain measures).
I have not stolen God's property.
I have not told lies.
I have not stolen food.
I was not sullen (resentful or unnecessarily unhappy).
I have not fornicated with the fornicator may mean homosexuality. Open to your interpretation.
I have not caused anyone to weep.
I have not pretended to be that which I am not.
I have not violated divine law (Ma'at) or possibly civil, or secular law.
I have not done grain profiteering.
I have not robbed land.
I have not told or discussed secrets.
I have not brought about a lawsuit.
I have not disputed property.
I have not had intercourse with a married person.
I have not wrongly copulated (could mean out of marriage)
I have not made people afraid.
I have not transgressed.
I have not been hot tempered.
have not told lies or withheld the truth.
I have not cursed.
I have not been violent.
I have not purposely misconstrued the truth.
I have not been impatient.
I have not discussed (as in inappropriate discussions of any kind)
I have not been unnecessarily annoyingly talkative.
I have not done evil.
I have not disputed the Pharaoh/King/Ruler/President/Queen/ruler in charge.
I have not waded in the purified water.
I have not been loud (yelled or raised my voice in anger).
I have not cursed a God.
I have not been boastful or glorified myself.
I have not harmed the bread ration to God.
I have not stolen the cakes from the Akhu.
I have not stolen cakes of a child
I have not fettered (constrained, or tried to shackle) the God of my town.
I have not slain cattle sacred to the God



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 07:11 PM
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To your first point, I disagree - and I challenge you to find anything resembling the American Bill of Rights in English Parlimentary Rule...certainly the STRUCTURE of our governing bodies were based on their system, however the Laws contained in the Constitution in its original form are based on MANY things....and i think that its a little naive to assert that a group of white, Christian men would completely ignore the guiding principles of their faith while composing the documents that would govern the rest of they and their families' lives....dont you? Be honest.

As for no Christian Holidays being sanctioned by the State, maybe you're forgetting about Dec. 25th....just because the government is no longer allowed to call it Christmas...you and I both know that it is....right?

Actually it is QUITE relevant - which is why I use Jordan as an example....because Constitutionally Jordan is not a theocracy, with everyone (including the 4% of their population that is Christian) being free to practice the religion of their choice (just like the US) - their Laws, however, are based on the tennants of the religion of the majority ....just like the US.


As for the wisdom of the Christians who wrote our founding documents, I wholeheartedly agree with you - the Founders were even wise enough to allow those who were to come after them the ability to amend the documents to allow for correcting mistakes ...pretty smart....and yes, 400 years ago, 20 people were murdered in Salem Massachusetts by religious zealots (I suppose I should be quoting Hillary Clinton "at this point, what does it matter")...but there were more than that beheaded in Iraq/Syria TODAY... It was ignorant and wrong 400 years ago- and its ignorant and wrong NOW.

To sum up - NOWHERE in my post did I assert that the Constitution was intended to create a Theocracy, however to assert that there is NO Christian influence or inspiration is ludicrous.

a reply to: Krazysh0t,

edit on 12-5-2015 by TSZodiac because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 07:26 PM
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Wonderful - I can only hope that I am able to make these same claims when i die ! Isnt it amazing how many ancient cultures' religious beliefs vis a vis "right" vs "wrong" are so similar? Makes one think that there are actually some universal truths, n'est pas?
a reply to: artistpoet



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 07:32 PM
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a reply to: TSZodiac

Indeed, laws or guides laid down to live in harmony
Universal truths or knowing right from wrong which is inherent

Though some could be disputed or perhaps refined



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 07:47 PM
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originally posted by: TSZodiac
I beg to differ - i suggest that you brush up on the 10 Commandments.....a reply to: AugustusMasonicus



If you think the Ten Commandments have anything to do with the Law, maybe it's you that needs to brush up on a few things. Let's go through them together.

1 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

3 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.

4 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

5 Honor thy father and thy mother.

6 Thou shalt not kill.

7 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8 Thou shalt not steal.

9 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

10 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

Looks to me like the only laws we have that go with the 10 Commandments are 6, 7 and 8. Possibly 9 if you interpret it to mean lying in a court of law or a few other official cases. Even 7 I don't think is a law in all states but it may have been at one time. Other than those 4 the rest are strictly Religious Laws and have nothing to do with how we run things. That's only 40%. Not exactly the basis for our laws now is it.



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 08:01 PM
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One more thing that should be pointed out in case there is any doubt at all that the 10 Commandments aren't and never were the basis of American Law is the fact that #1 alone is in direct opposition to "Freedom of Religion".

Think about it.

Also proving why it doesn't belong anywhere near a Court of Law.
edit on 12-5-2015 by mOjOm because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 08:15 PM
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Those are the Ten Commandments that Moses threw on the ground and broke in anger upon coming don't from Mount Sinai and seeing the people worshiping a golden calf. Later God gives him a different set!

1. Thou shalt worship no other god (For the Lord is a jealous god).

2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn.

4. All the first-born are mine.

5. Six days shalt thou work, but on the seventh thou shalt rest.

6. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, even of the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread.

8. The fat of my feast shall not remain all night until the morning.

9. The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God.

10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 08:18 PM
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All down to personal interpretation


"1 Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

Well OK note the small god
Think of the times it was written in ... god once referred to natural universal laws
Those laws became religous doctrines

"2 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth"

People used to worship statues and still do ...the natural laws were put into story form which had meaning
Animal and bird headed gods representing natural laws telling a story ... a philosophy
These natural laws were perverted as is Human wont ... into Religions ...

"3 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain."
This is deist in nature ... The recognising of A Creator ... it needs no religion

"4 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."

Take time out from your labours ... your time is sacred ... you are sacred

Religion is perversion of a natural philosophy which recognises A Creator which needs no religion
Though in partaking of a religion and earnestly looking deeper
All religions lead to the same goal ...

Of course such ways were deemed heresy and people who thought such kept their traps shut for their own safety
Hence some secret society's that sought to loosen the grip of the tyranny of religion






edit on 12-5-2015 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 08:20 PM
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posted on May, 12 2015 @ 08:25 PM
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I see people are ignoring basic statistics in this thread.

Review and reevaluate.

By Country

It's like saying Israel isn't based on Judaism.
Or Saudi Arabia isn't based on Islam.

If the majority 75% plus of it's citizens are a certain religion then conceptually and culturally that's what the country is.

And it has nothing to do as to how they choose to practice their religion, but who they want to be affiliated with.


edit on 12-5-2015 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

Actually we have the right to legislate based on it, just not the right to be for or against any one religion. And in early American history, the "for or against any one religion" was pretty clearly limited to just Christianity and her heretics and sects.

For example, shortly before the Barbary War, Thomas Jefferson asked a diplomat what in the Quran gave them the right to do what they were doing in terms of slavery and extortion. Jefferson said:




The ambassador answered us that [the right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise


Shortly after, he declared war on them.

Now it's only tangentially linked. There's some pretty obvious economic reasons for the war. However, the fact Jefferson wrote it down that way and took it to heart, certainly suggests that his thoughts on Islam in this particularly part of the world were in his mind when passing legislation, or rather executive order, to destroy them.

There is hardly any American tradition in keeping religion out of politics. It's just not supposed to favor any particular one. But it has in the past, clearly opposed some. Then again, Jefferson was a bit of a hypocrite in terms of power.
edit on 12-5-2015 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 08:43 PM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

So by that you would have to agree that if Islam became the majority religion then the country is based off of Islam.

Fail!!!!




Treaty of Tripoli


"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"

Written by Joel Barlow who had served under Washington as a chaplain in the revolutionary army. It was signed on 4 November, 1796 during George Washington's last term as president. It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797.
edit on 12-5-2015 by Grimpachi because:




posted on May, 12 2015 @ 08:44 PM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

"The United States Is Not, And Never Was, A Christian Nation"
Is the topic of the thread

The Nation of the USA was not founded as a Religious Nation and is not a religious nation
Though some would like it to be ... it is not

It does not matter that various religions exist within the USA
In fact they are protected by law

edit on 12-5-2015 by artistpoet because: Typo




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