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How badly of really off are the "poor people" of the United Kingdom

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posted on May, 10 2015 @ 03:41 PM
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I'd suggest that poverty is merely surviving in good(-ish) health. I think that might apply to a lot of people in this country.

Shouldn't a wealthy and healthy nation be able to provide all its people with something significantly above mere survival?




posted on May, 10 2015 @ 03:45 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
I am not poor.

But let me say this.

The biggest problem these people have is the entitlement society, this absurd idea that UK.gov owes you, they owe you money so you can sit about unemployed as you"look" for a job, you are owed DLA because of your bad back and stress, they owe you that council house and while they are at it because of your low self-esteem you they owe you a boob-job.

And at the same time these same people are disgusted by things like the bedroom tax (they have to get the money for your boob job somewhere), they are disgusted by zero-hour contracts (better than not having a job) they complain about the NHS and cry about how long the bins are talking to be collected.

My attitude is this.

If you feel like you are one of the poor guys who is being hard done by, then get up off your bum and get a job or a better job if that's what your after. The role of the nanny state i feel in this is to provide you with those skills necessary to get you into work and to ensure that there are jobs.

If you want to see real poverty or see what a bad social welfare system looks like go spend a few weeks in Sudan.



It`s people like you who are the problem.
Pretty ignorant in my opinion.
I worked for forty five years and payed my dues.....I wasn`t poor.

I don`t know your situation but believe me.....most of us end up on benefits for one reason or the other.
It`s just that some people like to put everyone on benefits in the same
category as the tiny percentage who use the system.
Have you been in a job centre lately ?
As for bedroom tax.....
My late parents began renting this house in 1955. I was born in this house. My family grew up in this house.
Including my parents, we have been paying ent on this house for 60 years.
Then i`m told me and my wife must go and look for a one bedroom flat in another area or pay £1000 pound a year.

I have lived and grew up in this house......my home.... and i`ve worked damn hard keeping it livable without the help of the council.
I`m afraid the government lies and manipulation by the mainstream media has a lot of you fooled.
They`ve got you looking down on the poor because of the manipulation and lies.
In a city like London there are thousands of people renting rooms.
On the estate where i live of around 50,000 people.....no one is looking for a room to rent. You might get the odd one but i`ve never heard of it round here. I think this is the same on most housing estates.


You try being out of work for more than a month or two.



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 03:45 PM
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a reply to: Robert Reynolds

Agreed Robert but as I said what would be considered above?

Should someone expect to have sattelite tv for example? An Iphone 6? brand new clothes on a regular basis?

How about a holiday in spain at least once a year?

My Ex is unemployed but still managed to go abroad twice last year and has a tv that is huge?

Should every person in the UK be able to expect a flat creen 42 inch tv?

What is deemed minimum level ef existence?



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 03:47 PM
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originally posted by: lambros56

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
I am not poor.

But let me say this.

The biggest problem these people have is the entitlement society, this absurd idea that UK.gov owes you, they owe you money so you can sit about unemployed as you"look" for a job, you are owed DLA because of your bad back and stress, they owe you that council house and while they are at it because of your low self-esteem you they owe you a boob-job.

And at the same time these same people are disgusted by things like the bedroom tax (they have to get the money for your boob job somewhere), they are disgusted by zero-hour contracts (better than not having a job) they complain about the NHS and cry about how long the bins are talking to be collected.

My attitude is this.

If you feel like you are one of the poor guys who is being hard done by, then get up off your bum and get a job or a better job if that's what your after. The role of the nanny state i feel in this is to provide you with those skills necessary to get you into work and to ensure that there are jobs.

If you want to see real poverty or see what a bad social welfare system looks like go spend a few weeks in Sudan.



It`s people like you who are the problem.
Pretty ignorant in my opinion.
I worked for forty five years and payed my dues.....I wasn`t poor.

I don`t know your situation but believe me.....most of us end up on benefits for one reason or the other.
It`s just that some people like to put everyone on benefits in the same
category as the tiny percentage who use the system.
Have you been in a job centre lately ?
As for bedroom tax.....
My late parents began renting this house in 1955. I was born in this house. My family grew up in this house.
Including my parents, we have been paying ent on this house for 60 years.
Then i`m told me and my wife must go and look for a one bedroom flat in another area or pay £1000 pound a year.

I have lived and grew up in this house......my home.... and i`ve worked damn hard keeping it livable without the help of the council.
I`m afraid the government lies and manipulation by the mainstream media has a lot of you fooled.
They`ve got you looking down on the poor because of the manipulation and lies.
In a city like London there are thousands of people renting rooms.
On the estate where i live of around 50,000 people.....no one is looking for a room to rent. You might get the odd one but i`ve never heard of it round here. I think this is the same on most housing estates.


You try being out of work for more than a month or two.


So what would you say is your core neccesity for a minimum level of living standard in the UK?



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 03:57 PM
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originally posted by: Robert Reynolds
I'd suggest that poverty is merely surviving in good(-ish) health. I think that might apply to a lot of people in this country.

Shouldn't a wealthy and healthy nation be able to provide all its people with something significantly above mere survival?


why does everyone think that this is a wealthy and healthy nation?....over 2 million in prison, poor at 45 million plus, part-time job growth, declining full-time job growth, declining middle incomes, less union protection, less benefits, no retirement benefits for the majority of workers, education loans at 8% interest, that take years to pay off, and can never be forgiven, rising housing costs....I could go on, but, this notion of this prosperous US, is long gone....well...except for the millionaires and billionaires, they live in a different U.S. than the rest of us.



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Pretty much. Pointing out a couple of one in a million absurd cases doesn't change the fact nearly 14% of the population earn less than the legal minimum to survive (20% adjusted AHC) and people on benefits get 1/3 the legal minimum to survive.

There's huge problems with the poverty level as in my opinion the 'earning less than 60% average salary' is far too vague a description. Social exclusion via poverty is a far fairer method and with the ongoing and upcoming cuts the poverty numbers will boom as the poorest are set to lose 8% of income over the next few years to allow the rich to keep doubling.

Link to minimum budget standards that are legal minimums people need to survive. There's a strange common misconception it includes luxury items instead of food, water etc...thsnkd to the Daily Mail brigade jech.bmj.com...


originally posted by: nonspecific


What is deemed minimum level ef existence?


£2 a week for social activities, rest is basic foods and bills/rent.

www.poverty.ac.uk...
edit on 10-5-2015 by bastion because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-5-2015 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Robert Reynolds
I'd suggest that poverty is merely surviving in good(-ish) health. I think that might apply to a lot of people in this country.

Shouldn't a wealthy and healthy nation be able to provide all its people with something significantly above mere survival?


why does everyone think that this is a wealthy and healthy nation?....over 2 million in prison, poor at 45 million plus, part-time job growth, declining full-time job growth, declining middle incomes, less union protection, less benefits, no retirement benefits for the majority of workers, education loans at 8% interest, that take years to pay off, and can never be forgiven, rising housing costs....I could go on, but, this notion of this prosperous US, is long gone....well...except for the millionaires and billionaires, they live in a different U.S. than the rest of us.


Have you mistook the country this thread is talking about?

This was about the UK not US



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 04:03 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: lambros56

I understand it may be hard so do not take thie following in the wrong way please.

replacing an electrical item. Can you not apply for a crisis loan, or use your local freecylce/buy second hand?

Is monet tight that you cannot put a little aside for special events? £1 a week is £52 in a year, that must be enough for a slap up meal at a cheap eatery?

Do you need a car or is this something you want? as for a holiday can you not visit freinds for a break?

A wedding I cannot say they are expensive but can she not fund it herself if she is in the position to get married and you are unable to help?

Charity shops and sales a great way to get a formal outfit, I recently bought a suit, shirt and tie from teso's for under £30, It will last me at least 10 years given how often I will wear it.
As to kids outings can you not plan ahead and save a little here and there for this eventuality?

Perties are usually free but if you are on low income then is the theatre not a luxury and something that you should endeavour to work to in the future when you have managed to put yourself in a more stable position?

Please understand that I am in a similar position and this in intended in a positive way.



Are you sure you're in a similar situation because surely you can answer most of your own questions.

A crisis loan puts you in more debt. It's fine when you get it but when it is deducted your money drops and that snowballs onto everything else.
I need a car as I have diabetic neuropathy which affects my walking.
Have you ever been asked to go on holiday with friends or family....no matter where and always had to turn them down ? As for going to a friends for a break you can't turn up with no money.

Letting my three daughters pay for their own weddings is a bit humiliating to be honest. It's every dads dream to give his daughter a good wedding. One of my daughters paid for her wedding and to be honest I'd rather not go there......
I shop in charity shops and buy my eight grandkids presents from charity shops......

Are you sure you're on benefits because surely you'd have experienced these thing ?
I think I will finish here as I feel I've exposed enough of my situation and really it's personal but I hope I answered your questions.



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 04:27 PM
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Poverty in the UK is relative. You are categorised "poor" if your income 60% of the median earnings (£27K).



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 04:29 PM
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a reply to: nonspecificI think that a many of the items you've listed, I would consider to be luxurious luxuries. If someone couldn't afford a TV at all (depending on what else they owned) I would consider them poor.



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 04:30 PM
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a reply to: Agartha




I don't think there is poverty in the UK, I think there is inequality and a big gap between the richest and the poorest.
Real poverty happens in developing countries, where people have no housing, no food, no clothes, etc.


You're making three points there and I definitely agree with the one about inequality - it's an international reality. Throughout the recession it was the high-end property markets that kept growing while the lower end of society were cutting back.

There is poverty in the UK and it exists in every town and city where most people will never see it. Main roads and commutes don't pass through the poorest estates; they're all tucked away where most people never see them. These are the areas where shops are closed and houses on the terraces stand next door to boarded up or burnt out properties.

Kids grow up on free school meals and social services are a part of their lives.

'Real poverty' is relative I guess. We don't have kids walking a mile or two to fill up a plastic container with water out of some polluted ditch. We don't have famines either.

If we measured poverty by the worst scenarios, we would all be cheering that it doesn't exist at all in Europe. Likewise, if we measured it by the standards of some people who grew up in the 40s or 50s, we'd dismiss nearly all claims of poverty in the UK.

The thing is, we don't measure poverty by the standards of poor areas of Africa or those of Victorian England. We measure it at families whose income is less than 60% of the average wage. Let's not forget that the average income is around £26k and most people any of us know dream of making that much a year. There won't be many individuals earning that much who live on housing estates.

I'm not having a pop at you here, you're a person whose posts I often agree with.




posted on May, 10 2015 @ 04:35 PM
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originally posted by: Robert Reynolds
a reply to: nonspecificI think that a many of the items you've listed, I would consider to be luxurious luxuries. If someone couldn't afford a TV at all (depending on what else they owned) I would consider them poor.



Agreed, you would think that anyone would own a tv unless through choice like myself.

A brand new flatscreen tv with sattelite tv and a bluray player however is something I feel needs to be earned yet some feel should be a basic human right.



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 04:41 PM
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a reply to: lambros56

I have been unemployed it sucks.

As for the housing situation, I would say to you that you should have worked hard, saved up a little money and bought that council house years ago.



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 04:48 PM
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Hello,

Am just new here, so don't kill me straight away......


In my humble opinion, if you can't pay for your daily food/meals and can't pay your 'normal' bills on the end of the month,
yes, you have a big problem.
Keeping in mind, that a particular 'poor' family doesn't need 3/4 or 5 mobiles, 2 laptops or a XBox/PS3 you know what I mean....
If their Income is used for the necessary and immediate living standards, and can't come around at the end of the month,
yes, then they are poor..... regardless of their source of income.

Regards....

europa eurostat



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 05:03 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

I am woefully underinformed about the recent politics in the UK and I feel bad for that. I'll answer your question with my opinion, completely unfettered by the current events over there.

The minimum standard of living for any person on this planet should be whatever we can reasonably grant. At the very least, every human being should be granted:

- Shelter
- Food
- Healthcare
- Affordable access to transportation
- A means to better their situation (jobs)

We can afford these things for every person in a first-world nation. Anything less is barbaric and against the Christian standards most westerners claim to uphold. How we treat the lowest of our neighbors is how we treat Jesus, according to their religion. I don't mean to give this a religious slant but, goddammit, the hypocrisy of having starving homeless people in a predominately Christian nation is insane.

Society should lift up their lowest as high as is reasonable, without any regard to made-up ethics about rugged individuality.

At the very least, every citizen should be granted all of those things and allow them to flourish and contribute from there. Honestly, if my neighbor did nothing but sit on his ass and watch football every day, living in his free home but doing nothing else, I wouldn't care. I would still enjoy the extra things I work for and the things I am able to bring to my community. The threat of homelessness and starvation are horrible incentives to get people to work harder.



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 05:08 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: nonspecific

Poor is defined by people with money. People without money are 'poor'.

"Pooor people, they don't have any money."

lulz


So what is your answer to the question please I fail to understand your comment.


You're only "poor" if you equate fulfillment with wealth.


I was asking in the sense of what should be deemed a minimum standard of living at the bottom level of society.

It was an actual question as opposed to an invitation to philosophize although I agree with your sentiment.


Well in the UK people seem to think it's their right to be able to have as many kids as they want, go to the bingo & pub, have a crap diet, the FULL sky tv package a large as possible flat screen TV and they don't need to be working to be entitled to that OH I forgot the annual 2 weeks in Spain on holiday although for some near me that seems to have change to the USA!



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 05:18 PM
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a reply to: wmd_2008




Well in the UK people seem to think it's their right to be able to have as many kids as they want, go to the bingo & pub, have a crap diet, the FULL sky tv package a large as possible flat screen TV and they don't need to be working to be entitled to that OH I forgot the annual 2 weeks in Spain on holiday although for some near me that seems to have change to the USA!


Non of what you mention is against any law here in the UK
So whether you think it right or wrong ... it is their legal right to do as they wish



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 10:00 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
Is it really ok to be on the bottom rung of the ladder with no real desire to make things better and then complain about it.

Some people have to be poor, that's just the way of things.

If you are not prepeared to make the best life for you and your family not expect a little hardship on the way are you not somewhat delusional?

A lot of research is leaning towards the idea that, in many situations, free will is somewhat of an illusion. This could mean that people don't have the ability to stop certain cyclic behaviours purely through will or choice. Instead they have to work on them or recieve aid and mentorship from their community. Imagine being unable to prevent a compulsive, knowing its destructive, but continuing to do it. It's the stuff horror films are made of or just plain old genetics and the cycle of poverty.

In a world where people consider themselves only responsible for themselves, their signifcant other, their children, and their dog ... who is doing this important work of helping people in their community? Is it really okay for people to complain at others being on the bottom rung of the ladder with no real desire to make it better and then complain about it? Leave it to the government you get government results.



posted on May, 11 2015 @ 01:29 AM
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originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: wmd_2008




Well in the UK people seem to think it's their right to be able to have as many kids as they want, go to the bingo & pub, have a crap diet, the FULL sky tv package a large as possible flat screen TV and they don't need to be working to be entitled to that OH I forgot the annual 2 weeks in Spain on holiday although for some near me that seems to have change to the USA!


Non of what you mention is against any law here in the UK
So whether you think it right or wrong ... it is their legal right to do as they wish


It's NO ones legal right to EXPECT others to subsidise SKY TV etc! , real poverty is requiring food and shelter like many people in 3rd world countries. Everyone should have a home,food,healthcare and access to education they don't have a right to expect others to subsidise a lifestyle that many who work don't enjoy!!!!!!

I am fortunate that I do have a descent life style but my family have worked HARD for it.



posted on May, 11 2015 @ 04:07 AM
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originally posted by: artistpoet



Non of what you mention is against any law here in the UK
So whether you think it right or wrong ... it is their legal right to do as they wish



IF they can afford it ....

Priorities ?

Not going out and up dating their mobile phone .... then going to a food bank

for the necessities



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