Religion IS Malware

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: WarminIndy

I said you will grow into well-rooted wheat because we all have sin in our lives that still needs to be chipped away. We are works in progress.

I will, or generally one does?

Jesus will not force me to be like Him. We have to come to Him ready to for Him to work. This has nothing to do with salvation this is something that occurs after salvation. Salvation is by grace alone, not of works, lest any man should boast, and once you have accepted grace you are His forever and you can be sure that you will be with Him .

Does this expunge us from our responsibility?

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Let us see about grace...

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Noah found grace because of....what? He was found pure in all his generations? Because he was a preacher of righteousness? He found grace even though the first thing he did was come down off the mountain and get drunk and lie naked.

Exodus 33:12 And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight.

What determines that we find grace?

Psalm 84:11For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

The problem that many people have with Christianity is that some Christians believe only they have been given grace and usually use only one definition of grace, unmerited favor.

I'm sorry, but Noah's faith was accounted to him for righteousness, and what did Noah do? Was it unmerited favor?

Acts 14:26 And thence sailed to Antioch, from whence they had been recommended to the grace of God for the work which they fulfilled.

Was that unmerited favor?

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Grace is extended to them that are not Christians, even Paul says so.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Shall we continue in sin? God forbid. If you know better and are not living up to it, going only on your faith alone, then what assurance is there?

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Ephesians 4:7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

So we have all been given a measure of faith and grace, yours may be more than mine, but we all have been given grace.

James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble

I see your non-denominational views which do sound very much like Calvinism, and there are several others on here who were from Calvinist churches who do recognize your doctrine, maybe you haven't realized it yet or maybe you haven't been told yet that it is.

Salvation has been longed for and promised in the OT

Genesis 49:18 I have waited for thy salvation, O Lord.

Deuteronomy 32:15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

But here is the one you just might not realize,

1 Corinthians 10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

They drank of that same spiritual drink you do, they obtained the same grace through their faith, because it was the same Rock, Jesus Christ.

How do we say then that we have obtained more? The Bible calls them elect also, we can't deny that. Do you drink of that same spiritual drink or not? We are not more elect than them, we have been given our own measure of faith and grace, just as they had.

Hebrews 11: 5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Surely not all Christians please God, but too many are told they only have to have faith, then they get grace, and then they are saved. But do they please God?

Am I becoming wheat? I must please God now while I live.

a reply to: SuperFrog

Are you trying to say that members of inquisition or those who did all crimes against humanity did not trust in the same dude? Did their actions produce good fruit, like you claim here and they were sure, according to Bible, god's word that they are doing God-given responsibility...

I was at my ex-wife's house for Thanksgiving maybe 3 years ago. Her sister was there, my sister-in-law, who is atheist because of some sort of persecution that no one ever described to me.

There was a documentary on the TV about tortures and devices invented for the Inquisition. I commented to her that it seemed that people who glorified the torture and death of Jesus for their salvation had somehow begun to worship torture and death. I can't remember what her response was. I wish I could.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I was considering the raven because Jesus said to.

God fed the raven by the bread lady and for the raven's good acting skill. That was me considering and not forgetting.

I watched the great Mojave Raven/Seagull war of 1983 also.

And I took note of news reports of the tragic desert tortoise decline of the 1980s. Ravens were involved there too.

ETA

I guess I'm boasting like a fool about my own righteousness.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I was considering the raven because Jesus said to.

God fed the raven by the bread lady and for the raven's good acting skill. That was me considering and not forgetting.

I watched the great Mojave Raven/Seagull war of 1983 also.

And I took note of news reports of the tragic desert tortoise decline of the 1980s. Ravens were involved there too.

ETA

I guess I'm boasting like a fool about my own righteousness.

Just a break in here...

The Thrill is gone.

B.B. King has passed away.



If anyone could express their spiritual angst, B.B. King was the blues man that spoke for a lot of people. When blacks could not express outwardly the very deep and inward hurt of being subjected and persecuted by white Christianity, they had the Blues.

Good-bye raven.

I think it was apropos thinking about the raven being fed.

a reply to: WarminIndy

B.B. King has passed away.

Just yesterday.

ETA

I don't know his music much.

It has been my habit since about 2000, when I first heard it, to listen to Martin Luther King's speech, on his birthday when possible.

With this speech being available, I would wonder, "Did no one hear? Why are we still fighting wars? Why are the lower-class people the ones to die while killing those who so closely resemble themselves?"

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Again you think that Christians preach they are the only ones going to heaven, but that is not what they preach, at least not around my area. Christians preach that only people under the gift of grace will go to heaven. That is a free gift and simply takes accepting Christ into your life.

So - they DO preach that only those "under the gift of grace will go to heaven"....and that becoming a "Christian" (accepting "Christ into your life") is the only thing that will do it.
Do you see how contradictory that statement - those two sentences - are? Or do you not????

Do you not see what BS that is?
(You are free to interpret the acronym "BS" in any way you want......Belief System, or ....snip....whatever.............)

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb
To Indy:

Where did I tell you that you would have to wait?

Here is where you said it:

From what I have heard from you I would assume you have been planted in Good soil by the Son of Man and will one day grow into well-rooted wheat, but only God knows for sure.

a reply to: Seede

Your list is well taken but do you realize that almost all of your list can and is claimed by other faiths?

The Golden Rule is claimed by ALL faiths that are not perverse.

As a concept, the Golden Rule has a history that long predates the term "Golden Rule", or "Golden law", as it was called from the 1670s in England and Europe.[1][6]
As a concept of "the ethic of reciprocity," it has its roots in a wide range of world cultures, and is a standard way that different cultures use to resolve conflicts.[1][5] It has a long history, and a great number of prominent religious figures and philosophers have restated its reciprocal, "two-way" nature in various ways (not limited to the above forms).[1]

Rushworth Kidder notes that the Golden Rule can be found in the early contributions of Confucianism. Kidder notes that this concept's framework appears prominently in many religions, including "Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, and the rest of the world's major religions".[7]

According to Greg M. Epstein, " 'do unto others' ... is a concept that essentially no religion misses entirely."[8] Simon Blackburn also states that the Golden Rule can be "found in some form in almost every ethical tradition".[9] All versions and forms of the proverbial Golden Rule have one aspect in common: they all demand that people treat others in a manner in which they themselves would like to be treated.

en.wikipedia.org...

Yeah, it's just a Wiki page....but, some contributors to this thread need to read it.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Rex282

No matter how many times I read it I'm missing something in the middle.

I’m not sure what you mean by this “missing something in the middle

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Rex282
“Character is not value system rating good-virtuous or bad- evil.It is the truth of who and what a person is in action and thought”.

That's a much better definition than what I offered.

And then at the end:

“Our purpose in life is to live…then die….then….”

We have the same conclusion.

Well that settles that.I’m glad we came to a conclusion and solved the greatest mystery ever!

originally posted by: pthena

To know the truth is to not judge or be judged by morals and ethics .If a person knows what is moral and ethical they do not have to judge or be judged by a Law they only “know” to do it because it is the intuition of instinct.In that sense morals and ethics have no meaning to them when the truth is “known”(not believed) because it is their natural state of being.

Can this or can this not happen in this life? In a previous post you stated that only an outside force could pull one out of their religion blinder. Does that happen in this life?

I take it you mean “know” the truth.Yes it can happen, however it is never by an act or belief of the person.It is revelation (unveiling) from the creator God.The truth cannot be communicated by a method(especially religious,spiritual or mystic)to others it can only be proclaimed by statement.That truth is a seed.

This is what Yahoshua did with the disciples.He spoke in parables to the people because they could not “hear” and said it was only given to the disciples to “know”.The disciples in turn proclaimed all of this by writing(scriptures).However it is NOT The living word of the creator God it is a testimony that testifies of Yahoshua.The truth of reality can only be unveiled to a person by the creator God.

The construct of morality and ethics perceived by mankind is the eating of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.This in no way implies good and evil can be known by eating of the fruit(seed) because it is death.Eating from the tree of Life(unveiling of truth) is LIFE.This all ties into the conception from the seed (Yahoshua) to the new birth where mankind lives in communion(knows) with the creator God.

originally posted by: pthena
Actually, I just re-read this response to another poster Rex282. That's probably the easiest way to understand it. It makes sense with Yahoshua as the successful one. And we don't see the process because of wakaddodle time perception.

Yes I’ve read that post many times aslo….Yahoshua proclaimed by statement(he never taught a method of religion) the Good news of the “coming”(not arrival) of the Kingdom of the creator God for the deliverance of ALL of mankind.

His proclamation was one thing ..ALL of creation WILL be delivered from Hades(the realm of death and imperception).That is the Good news.He said nothing about the many are called of mankind at that time (or future) knowing the creator God.He stated only the few are chosen (the disciples) were given to “know”.He emphasized this in this famous discourse with some Jews that “believed” in him

“If you continue in my word then you are truly my disciple and then you will KNOW the truth and then the truth will make you free”..….

As John(Lennon) wrote:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today

Yahoshua then stated to the disciples “they” would proclaim the same Good news to all nations…and they have…..and Christianity has not.Christianity preaches the bad news of a false God and their Jesus that are duplicitous monsters and a heaven above(for only them) and a hell below(for everyone else).

and John again

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

Even the simplistic words of a songwriter bear witness to the truth more than all of Christianity’s doctrines of men…and no religion too.

a reply to: Rex282

Yahoshua then stated to the disciples “they” would proclaim the same Good news to all nations…and they have…..and Christianity has not.Christianity preaches the bad news of a false God and their Jesus that are duplicitous monsters and a heaven above(for only them) and a hell below(for everyone else).

Many people who call themselves Christian have a Belief System very similar to your own. Can I say that they also have a false God and duplicitous Jesus? I can't distinguish between your Creator and Yahoshua and their God and Jesus, because of my lack of truth. I should let them be.

As you have said yourself, all we can do is deny ignorance. I see even Christians doing that. At least it seems so to me.

It is as difficult for me to issue a blanket condemnation of Christianity as it is for me to issue a blanket endorsement. For all instances wherein I have done either in the past, I hereby repent and recant.

We are in the process all together.

a reply to: Rex282

On the other hand:

I think we both must understand what it means, "unless the seed dies ..." But how to make that sound like good news, that's the problem. How can reality compete against the strong delusion of the fake good news?

You are correct, that the "New" puts the lie to any present concoction that people have in their heads about what resurrection means.

Perhaps if the movie of Pinochio had included a tent revival as one of the attractions in Toyland.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

The Golden Rule is claimed by ALL faiths that are not perverse.

Good thought. That may be so but some one or group had to be the progenitor or progenitors don't you think? Age of a religion is not necessarily a credential of authenticity and religious philosophies do mimic one another. By this I mean that if God is exposed to all of the world without a doubt then faith would mean nothing as far as the existence of God but faith may entail other things such as afterlife even though it was no longer required for the existence of a Creator. So in that respect some sort of faith will always be ingrained in terrestrial life don't you think?

Perhaps even in celestial life there may be faith. Faith that the Creator will never die and leave you in need or even that the Creator will one day hate all that He has created and bomb it out of existence. Faith will always be the front of existence and when a Christian realizes all of this then that is the faith that is with that person who leans on Christ Jesus. Everyone makes their own choice in which his or her faith is based.

a reply to: Seede

So in that respect some sort of faith will always be ingrained in terrestrial life don't you think?

In terrestrial HUMAN life, maybe.

We can't speak on behalf of all the non-humans who "share" our habitat.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

The Golden Rule is claimed by ALL faiths that are not perverse.

Good thought. That may be so but some one or group had to be the progenitor or progenitors don't you think? Age of a religion is not necessarily a credential of authenticity and religious philosophies do mimic one another. By this I mean that if God is exposed to all of the world without a doubt then faith would mean nothing as far as the existence of God but faith may entail other things such as afterlife even though it was no longer required for the existence of a Creator. So in that respect some sort of faith will always be ingrained in terrestrial life don't you think?

Perhaps even in celestial life there may be faith. Faith that the Creator will never die and leave you in need or even that the Creator will one day hate all that He has created and bomb it out of existence. Faith will always be the front of existence and when a Christian realizes all of this then that is the faith that is with that person who leans on Christ Jesus. Everyone makes their own choice in which his or her faith is based.

Seede, this post made me think of something, what does it really mean in the Bible to say "a new heaven and a new earth came down". I know the JW have their own idea on what that means, and I really don't know much about the JW, even though one of my dad's elder aunts was one, but I never knew here until a few years before she died.

Is that a physical heaven and earth? Perhaps, because the Bible does say this one will be destroyed. Maybe destroying this one might be the best solution. But there will be people living in the new heaven and new earth. I don't know if it means heaven, but that time is supposed to be a time of great peace and harmony of the natural and spiritual, even among all people with each other and with the animals.

Is it allegorical? Maybe it might be the Age of Aquarius they talk about.

This is one of the things that Christians do debate over and many Christians have made all kinds of doctrines about it. I think that it is universal to dream of a time when there is universal peace. And perhaps Christians forget this verse about Jesus' birth "Peace on earth, good will toward man". Some Christians do forget that, some remember it.

But it should be a universal faith, that one day we can have universal peace. I think faith will always be part of the human being, but faith is expressed in so many ways. Some have faith in the natural, some have faith in the supernatural, some have faith in their experience and some have faith in what they hear, some have faith in what they read and some have faith in things that make no sense to others. But faith is universal.

As you say the Creator, which even our Declaration of Independence calls it "All men are endowed by THEIR Creator certain unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". The Native Americans say Creator, the Rig Vedas say Creator, the Bible says Creator, belief in the Creator has been also universal. But I think what has happened is this, some people have cut up the Creator and have only seen one aspect or attribute of the Creator, and took those parts for themselves and disregarded the other parts and then said only they can have this portion.

I'm just the created, I don't know all there is to know. But I also share the universal faith and belief.

This is one of my favorite groups, Ulali. I met them in Greensboro, North Carolina at the Guilford Native American Powwow.

This is a universal desire, to know the Creator. And maybe the desire is indeed faith.

a reply to: pthena

I've been asleep most of the day because last night I went out to sing karaoke and was too excited to sleep last night until early in the morning.

So if everyone missed me, I was representing my building in the karaoke contest and did pretty well. I sang Two Out of Three Ain't Bad, Take Me Home Country Road and Ready For Love.

I'm kind of old school like that and was the youngest one there. They invited me to be in a contest for money, I think I will do it. But anyway, just wanted everyone to know that in my excitement and lack of sleep, I just woke up from a long afternoon nap.

Sometimes it is hard to sit and listen to three different renditions of Tammy Wynette from old ladies who remember how life was then. Which reminds me, one time I heard a radio DJ on a country station from Fort Wayne say about playing Stand By Your Man "All five of them.....".

Life before, life now. For the Good Times.

(I don't think the very young people on this thread might know the music).

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Rex282

Yahoshua then stated to the disciples “they” would proclaim the same Good news to all nations…and they have…..and Christianity has not.Christianity preaches the bad news of a false God and their Jesus that are duplicitous monsters and a heaven above(for only them) and a hell below(for everyone else).

Many people who call themselves Christian have a Belief System very similar to your own. Can I say that they also have a false God and duplicitous Jesus?

It only appears similar.Christians believe in Jesus I do not believe in Jesus I know Yahoshua.I have zero animus to prove that fact because it is superfluous.The same thing could be said of Yahoshua and the Jews and Judaism.It only appears to the blind that Yahoshua believed in the religion and God of Judaism however by what was documented and recorded of what he did and said nothing could be further from the Truth.Yahoshua never said he believed and he certainly did not follow the traditions of Judaism at all.The only thing he ever did in relationship to the religion of Judaism was to deny the ignorance of the Jews and Judaism.

The blindness of Christianity to not perceive this monumental fact is further evidence of Christianity’s ignorance of truth.Yahoshua quoted the scriptures as a point of testifying of the truth of Yahoshua never as a source of authority.He never stated the scriptures were the “word of the creator God”.(and yes… I am very familiar with Matthew 5:17-19).

originally posted by: pthena
I can't distinguish between your Creator and Yahoshua and their God and Jesus, because of my lack of truth. I should let them be.

Being blind is not necessarily a condemnation.As Yahoshua stated you know you are blind therefore you see.

originally posted by: pthena
As you have said yourself, all we can do is deny ignorance. I see even Christians doing that. At least it seems so to me.

It is impossible for Christians to deny ignorance about their belief because they do not know the truth.

ote]originally posted by: pthena
It is as difficult for me to issue a blanket condemnation of Christianity as it is for me to issue a blanket endorsement. For all instances wherein I have done either in the past, I hereby repent and recant.
There is no reason for condemnation, Yahoshua did not condemn and neither do I.Proclaiming truth or denying ignorance is not condemnation.

originally posted by: pthena
We are in the process all together.

….and that is the real bottomline.It is a process and everyone is experiencing it but separately. No ones experience is the same.Every path to LIFE is different yet the road is the same.Yahoshua called it the wide road that leads to destruction.Christianity has perceived that as the eternal punishment of hell and of course that is patently false.The destruction is the baptism of fire(and is of course a metaphor).Yahoshua called it the eternal(age lasting) fire John saw it in his unveiling vision as a lake of fire.Yahoshua called the narrow path and the straight gate the way to LIFE the law and the prophets.

"This is the law and the prophets.Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it. How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it”

.Notice he did not say the scriptures are the law and the prophets and he did not say the line before was either.

“Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them”

This is a common example of how Christianity has twisted the words of the scriptures to fit their religious doctrine.Even though this may appear to be benevolent and benign it is used as a bully pulpit to subjugate and demean nonbelievers yet Yahoshua was following a line of reasoning.He knew there would be a large group of many people that would start and be Christianity and he addressed this issue often with the disciple so it would be written as a testimony.

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit.A good tree can't produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit.Every tree that doesn't grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire.Therefore, by their fruits you will know them.Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord"…etc etc..


Christianity has flipped this on it’s head to condemn nonbelievers!!He is clearly speaking of those who call him “Lord Lord” just as he is here when he tells the disciples…
“Do not be deceived for many will come in my name and say they are christ and will deceive many”.

The purpose of the scriptures is to testify of Yahoshua not Jesus or Christianity.Yahoshua knew the great deception would fill the earth and false prophets (those who presume to speak for God) in sheep clothing would deceive many.This is what the truth is denying.This is what Yahoshua said to the “disciples” to shout(proclaim) from the rooftops.

Yahoshua knew the Jews and Judaism would be devastated when the temple was destroyed and they were scattered in the diaspora.It was Christianity he warned them of and Christianity played right into his hand by preserving the testimony against them (the bible) and the truth of Yahoshua.The irony of it all is too much.It is not by accident that a few letters written by some obscure peasants has risen to be the most known writings(and most documented ancient writing) in history of the world.

Billions believe(or say they do) in those words that are written yet have not a clue what they mean..the fact is those scriptures(what is written) are denying their ignorance and testify of Yahoshua not Jesus or Christianity!!It amazes(and doesn’t) me everyday that they cannot see it.The writing is on the wall but it may as well be written in Martian.

Am I condemning Christianity..God forbid….Christianity condemns itself.I am doing what Yahoshua is/was doing…. denying the ignorance of religion.That is all that can be done and all that is necessary.I know none of the truth can be known unless it is revealed by the creator God.Yahoshua was not trying to convert anyone to his new religion because his purpose is to deliver mankind “from” religion.

Part of that process is letting it run it’s course.In theory (not truth) he could have convinced EVERYONE who he was in great power.However it would have been futile because it is mans nature to believe in THEIR BS religion.A man convinced against his will is unconvinced still.

As I’ve been stating (reiterating Yahoshua actually)…mans purpose is to live their life... then die.It is all they can do.A person can only act according to the character born from their nature.If there is a creator God they are much more powerful than the human mind can comprehend.The life in the physical realm/ block universe may be perceived as utter entropic chaos but if there is truly a creator God it is all a delusion of mans.Mans eyes cannot perceive the whole truth of reality because they are not formed yet…and they may never be.That is not mankind’s decision to make. Mankind’s purpose is to LIVE.

a reply to: Rex282

Hey, Rex. I know you find me objectionable (what was it, "condescending and" "adversarial" - "assaultive" - "abusive" - "arrogant"---- what was it? I know it started with "a")

Anyway, despite how much you don't like me and don't like my posts, I think you have excellent ideas.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I've been asleep most of the day because last night I went out to sing karaoke and was too excited to sleep last night until early in the morning.

Woot!

Go you!!!
I know all of those songs.

a reply to: Rex282

Every path to LIFE is different yet the road is the same.Yahoshua called it the wide road that leads to destruction.

Yahoshua called the narrow path and the straight gate the way to LIFE the law and the prophets.

"This is the law and the prophets.Enter in by the narrow gate;

I'm just copying this here so people can see it again. I get it now for the first time

Anybody who doesn't get it, well read it some more.

It was Christianity he warned them of and Christianity played right into his hand by preserving the testimony against them (the bible) and the truth of Yahoshua.The irony of it all is too much.

Yes indeed, the irony. The very book that some people practically worship and brutalize others with is what testifies against them, and they don't even realize it. I think because of a notion "I'm on the inside and all you are outside", but it's delusion they are in.

Mans eyes cannot perceive the whole truth of reality because they are not formed yet…and they may never be.That is not mankind’s decision to make. Mankind’s purpose is to LIVE.

I'm glad you finished with that. I was starting to think I was superior to "the deluded they". Thank you.

I, pthena, endorse the message that Rex282 has given us. And the one above it.

I've seen at least 2 other ATS members in my short time here who tried to tell us the same thing. They dropped out because of a combination of 1) being completely ignored, and 2) being beat up for what someone thought they were saying without first knowing what they were saying.