Religion IS Malware

a reply to: WarminIndy

And I can say that the more I think I know, the more I realize the less I actually do know.

Yep,
that.

Wisdom. All I know is that I don't know.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Rex282
Let me try this again. It's pretty hard to put some things into words.
Let's say that since I remember the phrase "Your character is the only thing that you will keep of yourself in the resurrection," that that is my religion.
First define character: programed virtuous behavior by conscious action.
There is no ego there, no actual individuation.
Resurrection: reconstitution of life as a new being.
Therefore according to my religion, the good behavior I do as character building is not for my benefit at all but for the benefit of someone else, the "new man". That new man isn't me, but has my character traits.
So I don't think that I have a typical religion. That is if it is my religion and not some delusion. In any case I think it is.

I’ll “try” to be succinct as possible.
Character is not value system rating good-virtuous or bad- evil.It is the truth of who and what a person is in action and thought. The religious construct of judging good and evil from a biased perception is a false balance.It can only prejudge according to the persons biased perception of their reality which is false.Laws draw hard lines.Do this good(beneficial) do that bad(detrimental).However truth doesn’t work that way.It does not prejudge by legalistic standards.

To know the truth is to not judge or be judged by morals and ethics .If a person knows what is moral and ethical they do not have to judge or be judged by a Law they only “know” to do it because it is the intuition of instinct.In that sense morals and ethics have no meaning to them when the truth is “known”(not believed) because it is their natural state of being.

However to be religious is the natural state of man…to be immature…to not be fully developed to NOT know the truth of true reality.However it is not some aberration.It is not the perversity of a persons characters action.Every persons nature is religious with it’s own inclinations and personal propensities .The persons nature and the amalgamation of the persons experiences form their belief in faith in their Belief System religion and that is what their life is perceived through…and it is delusionment.

In other words only a persons character grows and changes not their nature.A persons character can only grow according to their nature not a system outside their nature and Nothing inside the nature(especially acts of religion which) can change the nature.

The religious carnal mind believes by performing acts(of any kind) is what delivers/saves them and causes them to change but all those acts do is change character beneficial or detrimentally.Their nature is completely unchanged(unrepentant)

The CHANGE of a nature will be precipitated by the death of the old nature(unless a seed dies).The resurrection is the “birth” of a new life not a reconstitution or raising up(ascension) of the old nature or character.This new nature is unknowable because it is a NEW LIFE.

This new LIFE will have never been experienced before.All man can perceive is through their religious,spiritual,mystic,psychological,philosophical delusions of heaven or nirvana,ascension,meditation et etc etc….and of course it is all false.It is futile to even try to image what the new LIFE will be it will only rule out whatever you are thinking as being the new life.

originally posted by: pthena
Now what makes this different from reincarnation is that we're not talking about a fetus in the womb, because that fetus will make its own character. The "new man" is already adult with the existing character.

Now, I'll just make something up: what if when Jesus said, "they will be like angels, not marrying anymore" that means, the "New Man" actually is a combo of male/female, two characters in one new being. Like soul mated for life or whatever. I just made that up, but what if?

The resurrection of LIFE is about a fetus in a womb.However a fetus does not “will” it’s character nor it’s nature nor it’s conception.This conception is what all of creation (including mankind) is experiencing but they did nothing to cause it just as they did nothing to cause their physical conception.

Mankind is at the beginning of the NEW conception.They are in essence an egg.When a male spermatozoon impregnates the female egg they become a zygote.The base meaning of zygote is …marriage!The zygote then begins to “grow and forms into an embryo.As all of the organs form it becomes a fetus.When the fetus “body” is ready to live outside the womb it is delivered/born(salvation).

The beauty of life is it is simply complicated.The same processes create new processes OUT of the old without the old knowing.In other words it is not what we “do”(acts) in this life that conceives the NEW life it is only part of a process.

The life perceived in the block universe is a delusion.It is chocked full of conundrums where up is down and in is out and everything exists simultaneously yet is perceived through the line of time in linear sequence.
The nature(religion) of mankind is the filter that blinds them to the truth of reality.It is a veil as vast and expansive as the universe itself.Our purpose in life is to live…then die….then….

a reply to: WarminIndy

IF that was the case don't you think Christians would be loved all over the world? Unless Christians are just constantly making the wrong choice in the matter...

The amount of work Christ does in a person is based upon there willingness to allow that work to be done. Many Christians are pulled kicking and screaming along that path. Another thing your not taking into account is that to a Christian the best thing you could do for a person is to share the word of life. Many people do not like the message Christians are given to spread and because of that they are not loved across the world, though I will admit many go about spreading the word the wrong way.

Again, Grace is not the doctrine of Jesus... He didn't even use the word...

matthew 13
24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’


36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man.38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Daniel 7:

I saw in the night visions,

and behold, with the clouds of heaven

there came one like a son of man,

and he came to the Ancient of Days

and was presented before him.

14 And to him was given dominion

and glory and a kingdom,

that all peoples…


The only way to be a good seed is to be planted by the Son of Man. Jesus doesn't use the word grace but he teaches the concept in many places.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

You replied to the wrong person. It was Akragon who posted that. Just saying....the quote there was not what WarmInIndy posted.

Sorry you got 'bent' by the thread.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I believe you replied to the wrong person

Another thing your not taking into account is that to a Christian the best thing you could do for a person is to share the word of life. Many people do not like the message Christians are given to spread and because of that they are not loved across the world, though I will admit many go about spreading the word the wrong way.

I would say Most go about it the wrong way...

that message does a lot of good to someone in need of food or clothing... or even shelter doesn't it

IF Christians stuck to his words they would be loved all over the world, but they don't... they stick to the entire bible and push messages that offer condemnation and hell fire if said person does not join their little group.

They drag crap from the OT into his message referring to people of other belief systems as "unbelievers" which is nothing short of insulting to anyone...

Truly... IF they stuck to his words, Christians would be respected and loved all over the world... and I would gladly proclaim Christianity as well... I'd shout it from the rooftops.

Except they don't... They preach the end of the world, claim they're the only ones that will make it to "heaven" and some would even rather step on someone in need then actually help them

Christianity is a social club... Most Christians go to church to be seen by others... and know nothing of what Jesus actually taught

They sit and listen to a preacher... and forsake most, if not all instruction from him because they believe they're saved already by his sacrifice... No work needed

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

You replied to the wrong person. It was Akragon who posted that. Just saying....the quote there was not what WarmInIndy posted.

Sorry you got 'bent' by the thread.

I was reading that saying "huh? I didn't say that". LOL.

Maybe a glitch or something.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

But the ground it is sowed in, some are rocky, some are weedy and some are good.

Would you think that I am rocky, weedy or good ground?

Mark 4:3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow: 4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up. 5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: 6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. 8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred. 9 And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. 10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. 13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? 14 The sower soweth the word. 15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. 16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. 18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, 19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. 20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred. 21 And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick? 22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. 23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. 24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. 25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath. 26 And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground; 27 And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how.

If the sower is Christ, and the good seed is the word, then the seeds can fall on either rocky, weedy or good ground. Take heed what you hear, for whatever measure you mete out, unto you that hear, more shall be given.

In other words (as Tevye says), Jesus is throwing the word out and in some it will take root. You go to church and the word is being thrown out on the congregation. Some are going to take root, the others might just a little bit and some not at all.

And it is the some not at all that do not show the word that people have problems with, because they don't offer anything and those that do take a little bit are just too shallow and offer thorns.

Faith is indeed a great thing, without faith it is impossible to please God. Faith is therefore the equalizer, because a lot of people right now in church have been told they simply need faith without producing any fruit.

Faith produces fruit.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Cheer for her from us. (me and BuzzyWigs)

Before the concert began rules were listed:

1) Turn off cell-phones
2) Remain in seats
3) Appreciation demonstrated in a manner consistent with a children's concert.

I was afraid to cheer. However, before the concert started she was looking for where her mom, cousin, and grampa were. So I stood up and waved both arms until she saw me. "Grampa" I heard from halfway back in the auditorium.

Good thing that was before the concert started

But seriously folks, how bout that malware?

I think we've told quite a few anecdotes about dysfunctions.

exclusions (including closed communion), unwelcome, name calling, disdain, maybe disgust, all on a personal basis.
Something is wrong. Wait! If the mean people drive others into home study. Maybe religion is best learned at home.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

definitely clicked the wrong name lol

a reply to: Rex282

No matter how many times I read it I'm missing something in the middle.

Character is not value system rating good-virtuous or bad- evil.It is the truth of who and what a person is in action and thought.

That's a much better definition than what I offered.

And then at the end:

Our purpose in life is to live…then die….then….

We have the same conclusion.

To know the truth is to not judge or be judged by morals and ethics .If a person knows what is moral and ethical they do not have to judge or be judged by a Law they only “know” to do it because it is the intuition of instinct.In that sense morals and ethics have no meaning to them when the truth is “known”(not believed) because it is their natural state of being.

Can this or can this not happen in this life? In a previous post you stated that only an outside force could pull one out of their religion blinder. Does that happen in this life?

Actually, I just re-read this response to another poster Rex282. That's probably the easiest way to understand it. It makes sense with Yahoshua as the successful one. And we don't see the process because of wakaddodle time perception.

a reply to: Akragon

I would say Most go about it the wrong way...

that message does a lot of good to someone in need of food or clothing... or even shelter doesn't it

Of course it does:

22 And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.

23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.

24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?

25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?

26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?

27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things

Except they don't... They preach the end of the world, claim they're the only ones that will make it to "heaven" and some would even rather step on someone in need then actually help them

Christianity is a social club... Most Christians go to church to be seen by others... and know nothing of what Jesus actually taught

They sit and listen to a preacher... and forsake most, if not all instruction from him because they believe they're saved already by his sacrifice... No work needed

I agree that much of what Christianity has become here in America is a social club. I also agree that many people go to be seen as my mother used to force my brother and I to go to church on Easter and Christmas Sundays but any other day of the year it was fine for all of us to miss. Now my mom is a good person and loves Christ, but public image is something she gives far to much weight to. Again you think that Christians preach they are the only ones going to heaven, but that is not what they preach, at least not around my area. Christians preach that only people under the gift of grace will go to heaven. That is a free gift and simply takes accepting Christ into your life . You have an issue being told that you might have a sinful nature, and that unless you let Christ sculpt you that nature will remain. The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. A seed(person) is planted in the field(the world). The seed(person) that is planted is either sown by the Son of Man and will grow into Wheat as it matures. Or the seed(person) is planted by the evil one and will grow into a weed as it matures. Then comes the harvest. The weeds are burned and the wheat brought into the barn.

John 15

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned."

Apart from the vine a branch does not bear fruit and is cut away. Those that are cut away have no way of bearing fruit.(Apart from Christ are works are as filthy rags before God this is the same ideology spoken in a softer way) All the nutrients of a fruit are carried from vine. All the Good works of a Christian flow from Christ the vine. All Good seeds are planted by Christ, the Son of Man. Christ is the essence of the platonic "the Good." The rock in the absence of a sculptor is merely a rock.

Understanding Religion

Though we can't prove the existence of one (or many) god(s), we can provide evidence for the power of religion. For good or for evil, faith factors into our everyday functioning: We've evolved to believe. Religion can help us make sense of our world, provide motivation, and bind us together. Nevertheless, structured belief has its drawbacks. So keep your mind open when dealing with dogma.

Some people follow multiple religions or multiple religious principles at the same time, regardless of whether or not the religious principles they follow traditionally allow for syncretism.
- Wikipedia - Religion

The Wikipedia statement is very interesting. I believe that that statement can also apply to someone who has zero religion yet borrows sayings from a traditional religious text, or gets their worldview by seeing with their own senses and cautiously uses language and symbols from religious texts to help think about it.

One possibility is an interpretation traced to Cicero, connecting lego "read", i.e. re (again) + lego in the sense of "choose", "go over again" or "consider carefully".

-Wikipedia-Religion-Etymology

a reply to: WarminIndy

Clicked the wrong name. I think this a great cross-reference..

Faith produces fruit

This is what I have been saying all along???? Trust in Christ will cause a person to bear good fruit. It is not because of a God-given responsibility but because Christ is working inside of them.

But the ground it is sowed in, some are rocky, some are weedy and some are good.


Would you think that I am rocky, weedy or good ground?

Notice in the Parable of the weeds Jesus said "“The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man." Good seed is on good soil. From what I have heard from you I would assume you have been planted in Good soil by the Son of Man and will one day grow into well-rooted wheat, but only God knows for sure.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
This is what I have been saying all along???? Trust in Christ will cause a person to bear good fruit. It is not because of a God-given responsibility but because Christ is working inside of them.

Are you trying to say that members of inquisition or those who did all crimes against humanity did not trust in the same dude? Did their actions produce good fruit, like you claim here and they were sure, according to Bible, god's word that they are doing God-given responsibility...

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
Notice in the Parable of the weeds Jesus said "“The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man." Good seed is on good soil. From what I have heard from you I would assume you have been planted in Good soil by the Son of Man and will one day grow into well-rooted wheat, but only God knows for sure.

If followed your thinking, this is just start to what will happen to church and teaching of hate...

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: WarminIndy

Notice in the Parable of the weeds Jesus said "“The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man." Good seed is on good soil. From what I have heard from you I would assume you have been planted in Good soil by the Son of Man and will one day grow into well-rooted wheat, but only God knows for sure.

I am so sorry, but I am not a Calvinist.

See, here's the problem...you have been taught a Calvinist doctrine that you aren't even sure of when it comes to your own predestination. The kingdom of God is now, we can be in the kingdom now.

I think I am now fairly well-rooted wheat and produce good fruit now. You are following the tradition that BuzzyWigs has also told you about, the fear induced reward or punishment system, that maybe, just maybe, in the future you just might be wheat or tares, sheep or goats, and one day only God knows if even after your whole life of service and faith, you just might not make it in.

Predestination according to Calvinists

These same ones that are the first born will be “foreknew”, they have been “predestined”, they will be “conformed” (means pressure molded literally) to be like Jesus Christ, and these that have been “called” He will also “justify” and then “glorify.” Read more: www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com...

Does Jesus have to pressure mold you to be like Him? And since to you it means that in the future it will be shown whether you are wheat or tares, sheep or goats, only God knows...you forget, the kingdom of God is present and now. I do not have to wait until the future to find out if I am predestined.

The point is, YOU should know whether you are wheat or tares, right now.

Let me ask you this, if you believe in predestination and election because you told me that I will have to wait, are YOU absolutely 100% assured of your salvation at this moment?

a reply to: Akragon

Faith alone produces people that are good for nothing... those who think they can just sit back and ride out this life without caring for others... this doctrine produces a selfish breed of Christian who think only of themselves and their own salvation... They've lost their salt, as Jesus explains...

I see nothing wrong in what you have said and yes there are some who will not put forth an effort to even read or study the words of their religion much less put forth an effort to propagate the salvation message. But that is not for us to judge the sloghful or sluggard.

The point that I make is that with Christ Jesus all sin (bad works) can be forgiven and once forgiven are not judged. With a sanctified Christian this means that only good works are left to be judged and rewarded as all else is under grace as a gift from God.

As the scriptures say that we shall be judged by the deeds of the body means exactly that with the exception that bad deeds of sin which have been forgiven will not be accounted to you. It appears that you do not recognize that deeds that are forgiven will never be an accusation in judgment. The good works are part of that judgment and are also the reward. Judgment does not necessarily mean condemnation but also means rewards.

Your list is well taken but do you realize that almost all of your list can and is claimed by other faiths?

But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Almost all of the above can and is confessed in other religions as well as Christianity and that is why one must distinguish, by faith, exactly the source. It is only by faith that the above list can apply to Jesus. According to Christ Jesus there is no other name given to people whereby we can have salvation. If one does all of what you listed in another name rather than Jesus then it is worthless. Even the ungodly do good works and without faith in Christ Jesus it means nothing in Christianity. Does being a sluggard keep one from the kingdom of God? I can't judge that.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I am so sorry, but I am not a Calvinist.

See, here's the problem...you have been taught a Calvinist doctrine that you aren't even sure of when it comes to your own predestination. The kingdom of God is now, we can be in the kingdom now.

I am not a Calvinist. I am non-denominational. Again you have misrepresented what I said, and its getting very irritating. I said I couldn't be sure when it came to your salvation because I am not God. I don't know where your heart truly lies; I can
only tell you what I believe to be true about you based on my limited knowledge. I know my own choices though and know that Christ has washed me clean. So my salvation I am sure of as I trust Christ words.

I think I am now fairly well-rooted wheat and produce good fruit now. You are following the tradition that BuzzyWigs has also told you about, the fear induced reward or punishment system, that maybe, just maybe, in the future you just might be wheat or tares, sheep or goats, and one day only God knows if even after your whole life of service and faith, you just might not make it in.

This is not what I said at all and I don't believe anything of the kind so please quit putting words into my mouth. I said you will grow into well-rooted wheat because we all have sin in our lives that still needs to be chipped away. We are works in progress.

Does Jesus have to pressure mold you to be like Him?

Jesus will not force me to be like Him. We have to come to Him ready to for Him to work. This has nothing to do with salvation this is something that occurs after salvation. Salvation is by grace alone, not of works, lest any man should boast, and once you have accepted grace you are His forever and you can be sure that you will be with Him .

The point is, YOU should know whether you are wheat or tares, right now.

I do know. The question was your question maybe your forgot, "Would you think that I am rocky, weedy or good ground? " I told you what I thought about you not myself. Only God and you know your own heart. I cannot know it for certain I can only tell you what I believe based on my limited knowledge of you.

Let me ask you this, if you believe in predestination and election because you told me that I will have to wait

Where did I tell you that you would have to wait? I don't believe in predestination is Biblical....I believe God is omniscient and therefore knows who the sheep and the goats were before the sheep and goats were made. What you are is based on your free choices in this life God just knows what you chose. I also don't believe election is Biblical...I believe all of mankind has been extended Grace and that salvation is a choice.

a reply to: SuperFrog

Are you trying to say that members of inquisition or those who did all crimes against humanity did not trust in the same dude?

They may have trusted in Him, but each person's willingness to submit to Christ's will over there own is different. Christ comes to you were you are and does his work as quick as you allow. You need to realize that when I speak of Christ causing you to become something new and good that is something that occurs after salvation not before. These men may have accepted salvation, but their willingness to allow him to work in their hearts may have just been a little more stubborn that most. Now if your going to try and play the numbers game based on metaphysical ideologies I can just say one atheist name that will trump all religious wars death counts .

Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975): 44.5-70 million deaths. Now pick every religious war you can find I bet just one name trumps them all although I could pull plenty more.

Did their actions produce good fruit, like you claim here and they were sure, according to Bible, god's word that they are doing God-given responsibility...

Maybe you should go re-read I have been saying that Good works should not be done based on a God-given responsibility.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?

A couple, well, may 5 years ago I lived in an apartment. The lady who lived in the basement apartment used to throw bread crumbs out her window to feed the squirrels.

I came out onto my front porch. A raven was approaching one of the bread crumbs.

I called out, "Hey! That's for the squirrels!"

Craziest thing. The raven started acting like a squirrel. If you've seen how squirrels have their heads down while scratching into the ground for food, that's what the raven started doing. I couldn't help laughing.

Then one of the squirrels ran up a tree. The raven followed it. Ran up the tree like a squirrel, then turned and looked back at me.

"Ah. Go ahead, have some bread."

Consider the raven. And don't forget the lady with the bread.

a reply to: pthena

cool story, but I don't really see how it relates to that passage other than you repeated consider the raven. Maybe you should explain.