Is China the next Fukushima?

A couple of years ago (late 2013), I had occasion to be in China visiting my in-laws. We took a bus tour to some famous Buddhist temple complex about a day's bus-ride away along the coast from Shanghai. I don't recall the name of the destination, but what did strike me was what I noticed on the bus-ride down and then back a couple of days later.

China seemed to be investing heavily in constructing nuclear power plants. The construction is fairly obvious. If you see something that looks just like a stereotypical containment dome, in some cases with stereotypical cooling-towers next too it ... I assume it is a nuclear power-plant. These seemed like little "Three Mile Islands". Most seemed to be single containment building sites, but some appeared to have multiple.

I must have seen about a dozen different plants going-up. They seemed to be building them adjacent to existing coal-fired power-plants. I can see that being an obvious place to consider putting-in any type of power-plant - so as to make use of the existing power-lines to put it onto the grid, etc.

One down-side I see, is that all these existing power-plants were along various rivers, just up-stream form the coast, or right on the river delta banks themselves. The prior coal-fired plants I hypothesize were built there, so that it would be easy to bring coal to them via water route (barge, ship, whatever). It occurs to me that, given whatever happened with Tsunami in Japan bringing-about the Fukushima melt-downs, that these are probably NOT good locations for nuclear power-plants.

My second concern, comes from a conversation I had with my brother-in-law (Chinese immigrant to the US), regarding construction methods in China right now. We were talking about the house across the street from his (in the US), where his new neighbors had put in a new concrete-block privacy/retaining wall around their side/back-yard. When it was put in, they trenched the area to pour solid concrete footings with re-bar inside (and the ends of some re-bar sticking-up), left those for several days to cure properly, then came back and slowly over a couple of weeks added rows of concrete block with re-bar within, etc. The whole process seemed to be spread over maybe three weeks. What surprised me, is that he said in China, they would have done that whole process in 3-4 days and just ignored the long-term implications of not doing things "right". Apparently, in China in areas where they are building more infrastructure, they have a reputation for building quickly, not safely and not really building "to last".

Combining that attitude to construction, with building-out a large infrastructure of nuclear power-plants in tsunami-vulnerable areas - does not sound like and ideal situation.

I read something online today about Japan shooting to really convert largely to solar power (which seemed like a fantasy to me, until I read about advances in battery technology like Tesla's new batter initiative). China seems to be in a hurry to convert from coal to something else. I can not blame them, given how horrible the air quality is there (which I have seen / experienced myself). However, maybe they picked the wrong energy "destination" and should have skipped-over nuclear.

Anyway, hope I am wrong about the vulnerability of these new nuclear plants. One Fukushima was enough (for the world), several more would be unimaginable.

a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

Very interesting observation. Did you take any pictures of these structures? In a way this is a good sign that they are going away from coal-powered plants. But if their building codes are not up to higher standards as in the Western world, then this is disconcerting.
We must also keep in mind, how many nuclear power plant accidents have we had in the last 50 years? Three-Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima. Not too bad considering how many reactors are in existence around the world. Although, they create a lot of contamination when something bad happens.

originally posted by: Kratos40
a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

Very interesting observation. Did you take any pictures of these structures? In a way this is a good sign that they are going away from coal-powered plants. But if their building codes are not up to higher standards as in the Western world, then this is disconcerting.
We must also keep in mind, how many nuclear power plant accidents have we had in the last 50 years? Three-Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima. Not too bad considering how many reactors are in existence around the world. Although, they create a lot of contamination when something bad happens.

They create a LOT of contamination if NOTHING happens..
It's just usually we are choosing small areas for it to contaminate..

Plants going up in China.. Some deal was made.. They would have done it sooner.
I think there is some global agreement going on..

I wonder when any of these plants is scheduled to be filled with active material?
I wonder if this date is after some event the whole world, except all of us, knows about.

a reply to: Kratos40

No I did not take any pictures. It would not be easy from that bus anyway. Generally when in China, I only take pictures of the family and general tourist type stuff. It is not exactly the Soviet Union, but always afraid of pushing my luck.

NOTE: Not to get off-topic, but camera's everywhere there I noticed - although I suspect nobody really watches them much (i.e. information overload). Maybe I'll make another post about that in a different forum.

I assume general information about where such plants are located, under-construction or proposed, is probably available on-line at this point. It's not like they were really trying (or could) hide them.

Its the "where" (potentially tsunami-vulnerable areas) that got my attention. The "how" (shoddily, like everything else?) just makes it that much more concerning.

Ones initial reaction is "so, what? its in China!". But, a few more Fukushima's sounds like something that would effect the entire region - including both sides of the Pacific.

a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

I remember reading over a decade ago that China was going to install dozens of pebble bed reactors which don't have the same dangers of meltdown. At least that should comfort your concerns (unless they aren't building PBRs after all).

The shoddy building quality is a very real danger though, even if the potential for a leak is low, the harm minimal and the clean up simple.

We need nuclear power so we have to be nothing short of flawless in our handling.

Private industry should be encouraged rather than discouraged from creating better reactors, the state (China in this case) is notorious for being ham-handed as may be evidenced by possible future structural failures at these installations. We already know they build schools that collapse on children.

a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

PS: I also remember a couple of years before that (late 2011), seeing several nuclear-plants on the bullet-train ride from Shanghai to Beijing. But, these were far inland - so the tsunami-factor didn't raise its head in my mind.

a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

That type of construction (no re-bar ) is very normal for house and walls all over S.E. Asia

This 30 story hotel was built in 15 days and is advertised to withstand a 9.0 earthquake.
youtu.be...


They had 15 Nuclear power plants with plans for another 26 in the next 5 years.. Big country with big power demands.
youtu.be...

China historically has a long and deadly past with earthquakes that shouldn't help matters any.


Maybe they should just paint everything with the same lead-based paint they use on our kids toys?

a reply to: KnightLight

All good points. Who is supplying them with enriched uranium? Who supplied them with plutonium for their nuclear arsenal?
Things to ponder. But I digress, this about their the nuclear power plant building frenzy. Just like the quality of their cheap and inferior exports, will they do the same with their new energy plants? I think so.

a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

One Fukushima was enough (for the world), several more would be unimaginable.

Good post, however what made Three mile Island and Chernobyl not enough for the world? Why not mention these?

a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

Is China the next Fukushima? Why? Has China done some work for Iran's nuclear power plant have they?

originally posted by: Azureblue
Is China the next Fukushima? Why? Has China done some work for Iran's nuclear power plant have they?

Why similar to Fukushima? The point I was making is regarding China building nuke plants in tsunami-vulnerable areas - ala Fukushima.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator
Good post, however what made Three mile Island and Chernobyl not enough for the world? Why not mention these?

Not try to diminish the TMI and Chernobyl "contributions" to society. Just saying, that these new nuclear plants in China (at least those that appear to be in tsunami-vulnerable areas) each is a potential repeat of Fukushima.

originally posted by: EnhancedInterrogator

originally posted by: Azureblue
Is China the next Fukushima? Why? Has China done some work for Iran's nuclear power plant have they?

Why similar to Fukushima? The point I was making is regarding China building nuke plants in tsunami-vulnerable areas - ala Fukushima.

I suggest that you do some research on the fuku "tsunami' You might like to start here: jimstone.com

Here is a little quiz for you. When you visit that site and find and see the bit on Fukushima, what is wrong with the pictures you see of the houses and buildings? ......... theres no cracks in the buildings why?

originally posted by: Azureblue
I suggest that you do some research on the fuku "tsunami' You might like to start here: [some-random-website]

No thanks, I watched it live on television as it happened.