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Should the next possible Scotish referendum involve the whole of the UK and not just Scotland?

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posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:45 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: deckdel
a reply to: nonspecific

Absolutely not.

That would guarantee Scotland would be kicked out irrespective to Scottish vote.


So how would that be a bad thing for the UK as a whole, also bear in mind that it was a close call last time?


No. No. You don't want Scotland out. Yeah right.


And no. It wasn't close.




posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:47 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Lol, no different to my analogy of a married couple living in a house when one of them has already decided to go for a divorce.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

53.3% no 44.7% yes, I would call that pretty close.

And as to the question of if I want them out I respectfully think that is my decision to choose.

Maybe you misunderstand my reasoning but it is still my right as a member of the UK.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:54 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: intrepid

53.3% no 44.7% yes, I would call that pretty close.


1% is close. 9% isn't.


And as to the question of if I want them out I respectfully think that is my decision to choose.


At least admit it and not go around in these semantic games.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:00 PM
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i,ll admit i haven,t read every post but read should everyone else have a vote on scottish idepenence.

of course they shouldn,t,why the hell does it matter what anyone else thinks?

if scotland wants to leave then we aint going to care,thats the whole point we have our own voice.

if you ask me that is the most stupidest question i,ve heard in a while.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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Well firstly I don't think there should be a second vote on Scottish independence, at least not in this term of government

But at the same time i do not think that the rest of the UK should have any say in Scottish independence.

It all comes down to a nations right to self-determination, we as the nation of Scotland have to right to self-determination, as soon as you start to have the other home nations voting on our destiny as a nation we lose our self-determination.

If however you are talking about a total separation of the UK turning the home nations all into independent states then that is a different matter.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:09 PM
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originally posted by: sparky31
i,ll admit i haven,t read every post but read should everyone else have a vote on scottish idepenence.

of course they shouldn,t,why the hell does it matter what anyone else thinks?

if scotland wants to leave then we aint going to care,thats the whole point we have our own voice.

if you ask me that is the most stupidest question i,ve heard in a while.


Could you expand on why you think this is the most stupidest question you have heard in a while please?

I anticipate your response.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Well firstly I don't think there should be a second vote on Scottish independence, at least not in this term of government

But at the same time i do not think that the rest of the UK should have any say in Scottish independence.

It all comes down to a nations right to self-determination, we as the nation of Scotland have to right to self-determination, as soon as you start to have the other home nations voting on our destiny as a nation we lose our self-determination.

If however you are talking about a total separation of the UK turning the home nations all into independent states then that is a different matter.


The thread was not about overall independace but I would be happy with a referendum on that.

It was more about the close call last time and the fact that Scotish independance is seen purely from the scotish point of view and somehow the right of Scotland to decide as opposed to the UK as a whole.

I have no real opinion on it as such just what I thought was an interesting question and wondered what responses it would garner.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

There won't be a next referendum.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: Morg234
a reply to: nonspecific

There won't be a next referendum.


I must thank you for that well informed and most educating post.

Or should I say do you have definative proof of your one word statement or is it mere conjecture?



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin




It all comes down to a nations right to self-determination, we as the nation of Scotland have to right to self-determination,


Exactly ...
Anything else would smack of Tyranny

I think I will move to Scotland ... the Western Isles before any future referendum ... just in case they do not allow me over the border in the future if Scotland becomes independent



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:21 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Morg234
a reply to: nonspecific

There won't be a next referendum.


I must thank you for that well informed and most educating post.

Or should I say do you have definative proof of your one word statement or is it mere conjecture?


I'm sorry friend but your assertions that Scotland will leave is also "conjecture".



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:23 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific cause why should anyone else have a vote on if scotland should have independence? no offence but i don,t think they really care what wales or england think



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:23 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Then in that case no, the rest of the UK has no rightful say over Scottish independence.

It all comes to to a nations right to self-determination which is enshrined in international law after the Atlantic Charter signed in the aftermath the second world war. As such it is the people of the nation of Scotland who have to right to determine through the democratic process if the nation of Scotland should become the independent sovereign state of Scotland. The State of the United-Kingdom of Great Britain has no say in this and nor should it as this is no the norm under international law.

I can however understand your position, you feel that Scotland is as much a part of the UK as Manchester is and as such feel that you, as a resident of the UK, should have a say if a huge chuck is going to be cut off the top. However like I have said under international law this is not the norm as it is the people of the nation who decide the fate of their nation.

You as a individual resident in England are not part of that nation (but you are part of the same state) and as such have no right to have any say in the self-determination of another nation.

I know it seems like semantics but when you brake all of this down its one of the key tenets in understanding international affairs.
edit on 9-5-2015 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

Of course it is, I simply meant to convey that a one word statement with no background, evidence or even personal opinion could be considered a benificial contribution to a conversation.

Appologies if it came across rude as that was not my intention.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Yes the whole of the United Kingdom should get the vote this time around. The Scots made their decision to stay, the Nos were out voted and so it's time that the rest of us get to decide if they stay or go. I was so hoping they went, I really did and still do. I think for the SNP to try and remove Trident (I'm gonna not argue the pros and cons of Trident just know I'm for it), is disgusting. The Scottish people weren't told how better off they were and are being part of the UK but next time it should be us who decide and in case you wondered my choice GO! (I'd vote Yes for them to go.)



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: sparky31
a reply to: nonspecific cause why should anyone else have a vote on if scotland should have independence? no offence but i don,t think they really care what wales or england think



No offence taken.

It was not about what Scotland think about us but more about what we may think about us, I thought I had made that clear.

It was only ever a matter of debate but I feel that giving Scotland the choice to leave without returning the favour as it were seems a little biased do you not think?



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: nonspecific

Then in that case no, the rest of the UK has no rightful say over Scottish independence.

It all comes to to a nations right to self-determination which is enshrined in international law after the Atlantic Charter signed in the aftermath the second world war. As such it is the people of the nation of Scotland who have to right to determine through the democratic process if the nation of Scotland should become the independent sovereign state of Scotland. The State of the United-Kingdom of Great Britain has no say in this and nor should it as this is no the norm under international law.

I can however understand your position, you feel that Scotland is as much a part of the UK as Manchester is and as such feel that you, as a resident of the UK, should have a say if a huge chuck is going to be cut off the top. However like I have said under international law this is not the norm as it is the people of the nation who decide the fate of their nation.

You as a individual resident in England are not part of that nation (but you are part of the same state) and as such have no right to have any say in the self-determination of another nation.

I know it seems like semantics but when you brake all of this down its one of the key tenets in understanding international affairs.


As I said It was only ever a question, something to spark a little debate as it were.

From my own point of view I would like to have a say in something that would change things so drastically for the UK and disagree that this is yet another major decision about the future that I seem to have no choice in.

I was all for the yes vote last time as I know enough Scots to understand the situation and now feel that with such a mass vote for a nationalist party it must be the way forward.

Just my opinion though, as I said the OP was just out of curiosity.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: Dwoodward85
a reply to: nonspecific

Yes the whole of the United Kingdom should get the vote this time around. The Scots made their decision to stay, the Nos were out voted and so it's time that the rest of us get to decide if they stay or go. I was so hoping they went, I really did and still do. I think for the SNP to try and remove Trident (I'm gonna not argue the pros and cons of Trident just know I'm for it), is disgusting. The Scottish people weren't told how better off they were and are being part of the UK but next time it should be us who decide and in case you wondered my choice GO! (I'd vote Yes for them to go.)


Pretty good example right hear of why it is up to the people of Scotland to made decisions regarding our self-determination.

Regardless of how much you might want us Scots out of the union, you have absolutely no right what so ever to have any say in the decision unless you are a resident of Scotland.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid
1% is close. 9% isn't.

Maths is not your strong point is it. Lets make this very simple :
1000 voters
533 vote no
447 vote yes
In order to switch the result you actually need 34 no voters to switch to yes, as follows :
533 - 34 = 499
447 + 34 = 501

Hey presto a change. 34 voters out of 1000 is 3.4% NOT FREAKING 9%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now I consider 3.4% a small number of voters. But if you now wish to change your tune and claim3.4% isn't close then that is entirely your opinion.
edit on 9/5/2015 by yorkshirelad because: (no reason given)




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