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Should the next possible Scotish referendum involve the whole of the UK and not just Scotland?

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posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:20 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: artistpoet
Something is not right for sure ... Is your Mother Canadian or English or dual nationaliity


You know? Damned if I know but I never heard her say she gave up her British citizenship. We're getting a bit off topic though.


All Canadian related posts deleted due to super moderater causing thread drift...


My credentials as to parliamentary procedure and Brit culture was in question.


How often to we get to do that though!

As a non UK member would you prefer us to stay together, split up or not care less?

International opinion is always a good insight with internal subjects.


As an outsider I see all aspects of this situation. We also have experience with that in Canada. Scotland will NOT not leave. It works for everyone. The LOUDEST do make it difficult though.


It was a pretty close call and now the people have voted pretty much outright for a nationalist party.


Does this not show that they are unhappy with the union and how would you explain LOUDEST? I am not sure I understand your meaning with this, do you mean majority?


Another thing that we are familiar with.... regional parties. The Block Quebecois and Party Quebecois were separatist parties that Quebeckers voted for(regional self preservation) but didn't vote for independence. You may be reading too much into that vote.

AND the margin of error in the last referendum was DAMN close(barely 1%):

en.wikipedia.org...

We are beyond that now.


Sorry some confusion there I was reffereing to the Scotish referendum.

I know little of the Canadian situation, are these regions, provinces or seperate nations within a Union.


There are similarities. Quebec has a "unique" status in Canada. Not necessarily a separate nation but a different culture. And they twice decided to remain in Canada.


So would you say that there unique status in Canada is similar to Scotlands relationship with the UK?

They have already had a close no vote so I assume from your comparison they would say no again.

In reference to the OP how would the rest of Canada vote if given a choice similar to the one I proposed for the UK in the OP?

Would Canada as a whole vote for them to stay or would they choose an option that ejected them from the union?


There was a time that Canada would have said, "Screw the ungrateful bastards. Hell, we let them keep their culture after we beat them on the Plains of Abraham." That's British history too btw.


Would the whole nation have voted them out? Depends on the time. At certain times I believe we would have and it would have been the BIGGEST mistake. Decades later we are doing well together.


So based on the previous situations in a similar nation in your belief is that not only should Scotland not leave the UK it should also not be for the whole UK to decide as we may regret our decision and that given time we will learn to overcome our differences and once again be a happy union?

I think I have understood your stance correctly but feel free to re adjust if needed.
edit on 9/5/2015 by nonspecific because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:24 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: artistpoet
Something is not right for sure ... Is your Mother Canadian or English or dual nationaliity


You know? Damned if I know but I never heard her say she gave up her British citizenship. We're getting a bit off topic though.


All Canadian related posts deleted due to super moderater causing thread drift...


My credentials as to parliamentary procedure and Brit culture was in question.


How often to we get to do that though!

As a non UK member would you prefer us to stay together, split up or not care less?

International opinion is always a good insight with internal subjects.


As an outsider I see all aspects of this situation. We also have experience with that in Canada. Scotland will NOT not leave. It works for everyone. The LOUDEST do make it difficult though.


It was a pretty close call and now the people have voted pretty much outright for a nationalist party.


Does this not show that they are unhappy with the union and how would you explain LOUDEST? I am not sure I understand your meaning with this, do you mean majority?


Another thing that we are familiar with.... regional parties. The Block Quebecois and Party Quebecois were separatist parties that Quebeckers voted for(regional self preservation) but didn't vote for independence. You may be reading too much into that vote.

AND the margin of error in the last referendum was DAMN close(barely 1%):

en.wikipedia.org...

We are beyond that now.


Sorry some confusion there I was reffereing to the Scotish referendum.

I know little of the Canadian situation, are these regions, provinces or seperate nations within a Union.


There are similarities. Quebec has a "unique" status in Canada. Not necessarily a separate nation but a different culture. And they twice decided to remain in Canada.


So would you say that there unique status in Canada is similar to Scotlands relationship with the UK?

They have already had a close no vote so I assume from your comparison they would say no again.

In reference to the OP how would the rest of Canada vote if given a choice similar to the one I proposed for the UK in the OP?

Would Canada as a whole vote for them to stay or would they choose an option that ejected them from the union?


There was a time that Canada would have said, "Screw the ungrateful bastards. Hell, we let them keep their culture after we beat them on the Plains of Abraham." That's British history too btw.


Would the whole nation have voted them out? Depends on the time. At certain times I believe we would have and it would have been the BIGGEST mistake. Decades later we are doing well together.


So based on previous situations of a similar nation in your country your belief is that not only should Scotland leave the UK


I said the opposite. And predicted as much. The loudmouths may spew their crap but the voter seldom likes change.


it should also not be for the whole UK to decide as we may regret our decision and that given time we will learn to overcome our differences and once again be a happy union?


That's right. If Scotland wants to leave, it's their call. I seriously doubt that happening.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: blupblup




The problem isn't geography or where you happen to live... it's education...apathy...an honest and open political discussion. It's understanding that this whole mess, the reason we're screwed is because of the the system and because of wealthy people playing with and gambling our money... with people syphoning our money away from us and making billions of of the others misery. The "Wealth Creators" have the game rigged.. and we will not win


You put that really well, and I agree with you entirely. My own view is that the Yes voters share your sentiment, they are not 'anti-English', they are anti-Tory greed. But the way out of that, for us, is to leave the UK.
It's drastic, but it feels like the only way out. It doesn't mean that I don't acknowledge and care about the rest of the UK who are getting screwed by the system. But I can understand how it must come across that way.
Just my opinion.

B x


So would you feel confident in a whole UK referendum on Scottish independace?



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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originally posted by: beansidhe

You put that really well, and I agree with you entirely. My own view is that the Yes voters share your sentiment, they are not 'anti-English', they are anti-Tory greed. But the way out of that, for us, is to leave the UK.
It's drastic, but it feels like the only way out. It doesn't mean that I don't acknowledge and care about the rest of the UK who are getting screwed by the system. But I can understand how it must come across that way.
Just my opinion.

B x



I've never thought the Yes Campaign was about hating England.
I've even defended it against some people on ATS... I absolutely don't blame many in Scotland for their desire to leave, they keep getting Tory Governments after not voting for them, time after time.
Yes there are rabid nationalists, bullies and complete dick heads who hate the English and foam at the mouth and can't debate in a civil manner... just as there complete twats here who hate the Scots and scream and shout obscenities.

I personally can't stand Nationalism - it makes my skin crawl.
But there is nothing wrong with wanting to govern and make your own choices and be free from the tyranny and oppression of the scum that is the Tory Party.

As I've said recently... I may come and Join you guys.




edit on 9/5/15 by blupblup because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: artistpoet
Something is not right for sure ... Is your Mother Canadian or English or dual nationaliity


You know? Damned if I know but I never heard her say she gave up her British citizenship. We're getting a bit off topic though.


All Canadian related posts deleted due to super moderater causing thread drift...


My credentials as to parliamentary procedure and Brit culture was in question.


How often to we get to do that though!

As a non UK member would you prefer us to stay together, split up or not care less?

International opinion is always a good insight with internal subjects.


As an outsider I see all aspects of this situation. We also have experience with that in Canada. Scotland will NOT not leave. It works for everyone. The LOUDEST do make it difficult though.


It was a pretty close call and now the people have voted pretty much outright for a nationalist party.


Does this not show that they are unhappy with the union and how would you explain LOUDEST? I am not sure I understand your meaning with this, do you mean majority?


Another thing that we are familiar with.... regional parties. The Block Quebecois and Party Quebecois were separatist parties that Quebeckers voted for(regional self preservation) but didn't vote for independence. You may be reading too much into that vote.

AND the margin of error in the last referendum was DAMN close(barely 1%):

en.wikipedia.org...

We are beyond that now.


Sorry some confusion there I was reffereing to the Scotish referendum.

I know little of the Canadian situation, are these regions, provinces or seperate nations within a Union.


There are similarities. Quebec has a "unique" status in Canada. Not necessarily a separate nation but a different culture. And they twice decided to remain in Canada.


So would you say that there unique status in Canada is similar to Scotlands relationship with the UK?

They have already had a close no vote so I assume from your comparison they would say no again.

In reference to the OP how would the rest of Canada vote if given a choice similar to the one I proposed for the UK in the OP?

Would Canada as a whole vote for them to stay or would they choose an option that ejected them from the union?


There was a time that Canada would have said, "Screw the ungrateful bastards. Hell, we let them keep their culture after we beat them on the Plains of Abraham." That's British history too btw.


Would the whole nation have voted them out? Depends on the time. At certain times I believe we would have and it would have been the BIGGEST mistake. Decades later we are doing well together.


So based on previous situations of a similar nation in your country your belief is that not only should Scotland leave the UK


I said the opposite. And predicted as much. The loudmouths may spew their crap but the voter seldom likes change.


it should also not be for the whole UK to decide as we may regret our decision and that given time we will learn to overcome our differences and once again be a happy union?


That's right. If Scotland wants to leave, it's their call. I seriously doubt that happening.


I missed an important "not" out of my post and must have edited before you replied. It should have read Scotland should NOT leave the UK and has now been ammended. applogies.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Glad you agree




posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:38 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Hi nonspecific, no I haven't changed my mind since page one
- it should be a Scottish decision alone. I had a long talk with Freeborn a while ago, and we talked about what would happen to the North when we leave. He made me think - a lot.

a reply to: blupblup

Just know that you would be most welcome. I would love it if you could have a better regional political system, with decentralised powers, so that vastly different areas could best manage their own needs and strengths. But that's not a popular view and would take a real battle to set up. But I believe it would make life better for many who are not currently being represented by ANY English political party.
edit on 9-5-2015 by beansidhe because: sp



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: nonspecific

Hi nonspecific, no I haven't changed my mind since page one
- it should be a Scottish decision alone. I had a long talk with Freeborn a while ago, and we talked about what would happen to the North when we leave. He made me think - a lot.

a reply to: blupblup

Just know that you would be most welcome. I would love it if you could have a better regional political system, with decentralised powers, so that vastly different areas could best manage their own needs and strengths. But that's not a popular view and would take a real battle to set up. But I believe it would make life better for many who are not currently being represented by ANY English political party.


So what your saying is that nearly 4 pages of ats has not altered your opinion at all?

We have to find a better way of doing things if anyone ever expects to change things round here.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:50 PM
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a reply to: blupblup

You make some great points
If people felt fairly treated this would not be an issue

I think what a lot of people who I have talked with feel
Another round of austerity measures which affect the poorer and most vulnerable in society is very depressing
Also small business owners I know feel the same ... Look what happened when the Banks failed and thousands aof thousands of small business's had the rug pulled from under them

Now everyone seems in hock to the banks ... Pensioners, family's having to decide whether to buy food or keep their homes warm

When will the Banks give the people the money back that they scammed from them

I feel the present atmosphere of disappointment and disdain could help unite us against the parasitical element that rule the roost ... what is needed is to call them out and force fair play
For a start the too big to touch company's should pay a fair tax not a mere 1 per cent when the ordinary folk pay 20 per cent

Let us hope a new breed of politicians of integrity and honour step up to the mark

I think this present thread is merely a reaction of helplessness

I would prefer the whole of Britain be united for fair play and honest politics




edit on 9-5-2015 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-5-2015 by artistpoet because: Typo



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: blupblup

You make some great points
If people felt fairly treated this would not be an issue

I think what a lot of people who I have talked with feel
Another round of austerity measures which affect the poorer and most vulnerable in society is very depressing
Also small business owners I know feel the same ... Look what happened when the Banks failed and thousands aof thousands of small business's had the rug pulled from under them

Now everyone seems in hock to the banks ... Pensioners, family's having to decide whether to buy food or keep them homes warm

When will the Banks give the people the money back that they scammed from them

I feel the present atmosphere of disappointment and disdain could help unite us against the parasitical element that rule the roost ... what is needed is to call them out and force fair play
For a start the too big to touch company's should pay a fair tax not a mere 1 per cent when the ordinary folk pay 20 per cent

Let us hope a new breed of politicians of integrity and honour step up to the mark

I think this present thread is merely a reaction of helplessness

I would prefer the whole of Britain be united for fair play and honest politics



People seem to be sick and tired and what fundamental chanhe


How about the question of the whole UK having a choice in a possible future referendum on Scotish independance though?



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:56 PM
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The question was answered 9 months ago.
Try again in a generation.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:03 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific




How about the question of the whole UK having a choice in a possible future referendum on Scotish independance though?


I answered that a few posts back in the thread
It should be up to Scotland if they wish to remain shackled or not to the rest of the UK
The other nations should keep out of what Scotland as a nation decides in any future referendum

The other nations England, Wales and N. Ireland should keep out of what Scotland decides
It is Scotland's business alone



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:13 PM
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originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: nonspecific




How about the question of the whole UK having a choice in a possible future referendum on Scotish independance though?


I answered that a few posts back in the thread
It should be up to Scotland if they wish to remain shackled or not to the rest of the UK
The other nations should keep out of what Scotland as a nation decides in any future referendum

The other nations England, Wales and N. Ireland should keep out of what Scotland decides
It is Scotland's business alone


Yes I know but theres plenty of threads out there bemoaning the state of the nation and how pete thinks this and dave thinks that.

It was a pretty simple question and it never fails to astound me that people (I do not mean you personally) can take a question and turn it into something it was never meant to be.

Just a hopeless attemp on my part to try and keep things on topic for once.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:14 PM
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originally posted by: rigel4
The question was answered 9 months ago.
Try again in a generation.


to what question are you reffering please?



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:18 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific




posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:22 PM
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Only the Scottish folk should vote on their independence - I don't get how any other way is fair?
Is there a vote that's been proposed including the whole of Britain?



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific




It was a pretty simple question and it never fails to astound me that people (I do not mean you personally) can take a question and turn it into something it was never meant to be.


The question you ask is a very simple one
A Yes or a No would suffice plus reasons for the Yes or No

It does not astound me how threads drift off at tangents
I have come to expect it
But you are right we should stay on topic
Even perhaps a vote amongst posters with Yes or No option
My option as I have stated is No

edit on 9-5-2015 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:32 PM
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originally posted by: stargatetravels
Only the Scottish folk should vote on their independence - I don't get how any other way is fair?
Is there a vote that's been proposed including the whole of Britain?


Nope just me asking the question.
As I stated earlier as A union if the question of one staying arises why should it not be the decision of all nations?

If you lived in a shared house with three other people would you not like to be involved in the decision as to if one should leave or would you prefer that nobody had to leave regardless of there actions unless they chose to leave on there own terms.

Not the best analogy but the best I can come up with right now to simplify?



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Absolutely not.

That would guarantee Scotland would be kicked out irrespective of the Scottish vote.
edit on 9-5-2015 by deckdel because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:43 PM
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originally posted by: deckdel
a reply to: nonspecific

Absolutely not.

That would guarantee Scotland would be kicked out irrespective to Scottish vote.


So how would that be a bad thing for the UK as a whole, also bear in mind that it was a close call last time?

Is it not like any agreement which is only good as long as it is mutually benificial to all parties?



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