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Should the next possible Scotish referendum involve the whole of the UK and not just Scotland?

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posted on May, 9 2015 @ 03:40 PM
link   

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Maxatoria

I agree ... and it has been suggested we just build a Moat around London or the square mile perhaps




I'm not from London but you do realise that they did not vote Tory, right?
All of this "Screw the south" "Southern Pussies" stuff is the ugliness that rears it head in the darkest times.
Blame the foreigners, blame the Muslims, blame the Scots, blame the English, blame the South, blame everyone and everything except those to blame.

The bankers and the corporate and political elite.

These are dark times and judging by the infighting and attacking of everyone and everything... it's going to get much worse.
edit on 9/5/15 by blupblup because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 9 2015 @ 03:41 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: artistpoet
Something is not right for sure ... Is your Mother Canadian or English or dual nationaliity


You know? Damned if I know but I never heard her say she gave up her British citizenship. We're getting a bit off topic though.


All Canadian related posts deleted due to super moderater causing thread drift...



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: blupblup

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Maxatoria

I agree ... and it has been suggested we just build a Moat around London or the square mile perhaps
#

I'm not from London but you do realise that they did not vote Tory, right?
All of this "Screw the south" "Southern Pussies" stuff is the ugliness that rears it head in the darkest times.
Blame the foreigners, blame the Muslims, blame the Scots, blame the English, blame the South, blame everyone and everything except those to blame.

The bankers and the corporate and political elite.

These are dark times and judging by the infighting and attacking of everyone and everything... it's going to get much worse.


Agreed I'm pretty sure there was a big red blob around london on the pretty picture the bbc showed us.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 03:44 PM
link   

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: artistpoet
Something is not right for sure ... Is your Mother Canadian or English or dual nationaliity


You know? Damned if I know but I never heard her say she gave up her British citizenship. We're getting a bit off topic though.


All Canadian related posts deleted due to super moderater causing thread drift...


My credentials as to parliamentary procedure and Brit culture was in question.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 03:46 PM
link   

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: artistpoet
Something is not right for sure ... Is your Mother Canadian or English or dual nationaliity


You know? Damned if I know but I never heard her say she gave up her British citizenship. We're getting a bit off topic though.


All Canadian related posts deleted due to super moderater causing thread drift...


My credentials as to parliamentary procedure and Brit culture was in question.


How often to we get to do that though!

As a non UK member would you prefer us to stay together, split up or not care less?

International opinion is always a good insight with internal subjects.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 03:50 PM
link   

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: artistpoet
Something is not right for sure ... Is your Mother Canadian or English or dual nationaliity


You know? Damned if I know but I never heard her say she gave up her British citizenship. We're getting a bit off topic though.


All Canadian related posts deleted due to super moderater causing thread drift...


My credentials as to parliamentary procedure and Brit culture was in question.


How often to we get to do that though!

As a non UK member would you prefer us to stay together, split up or not care less?

International opinion is always a good insight with internal subjects.


As an outsider I see all aspects of this situation. We also have experience with that in Canada. Scotland will NOT leave. It works for everyone. The LOUDEST do make it difficult though.
edit on 9-5-2015 by intrepid because: Because a "not not" doesn't work.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 03:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: artistpoet
Something is not right for sure ... Is your Mother Canadian or English or dual nationaliity


You know? Damned if I know but I never heard her say she gave up her British citizenship. We're getting a bit off topic though.


All Canadian related posts deleted due to super moderater causing thread drift...


My credentials as to parliamentary procedure and Brit culture was in question.


How often to we get to do that though!

As a non UK member would you prefer us to stay together, split up or not care less?

International opinion is always a good insight with internal subjects.


As an outsider I see all aspects of this situation. We also have experience with that in Canada. Scotland will NOT not leave. It works for everyone. The LOUDEST do make it difficult though.


It was a pretty close call and now the people have voted pretty much outright for a nationalist party.

Does this not show that they are unhappy with the union and how would you explain LOUDEST? I am not sure I understand your meaning with this, do you mean majority?



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 03:56 PM
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a reply to: blupblup

Of course I understand that not of all London is a Tory stronghold
I wrote in jest ... And am more disappointed than angry after the election
I think this a general reaction and feeling of powerlessness

I am sure many Londoners are also disappointed
Maybe we should build that moat around Westninster

I think a referendum including England regarding Scottish independence is in practical
I do believe in decentralisation of power ... so people can have more of a say in their local community

Here is map of London after the election to emphasis the point you made




posted on May, 9 2015 @ 03:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: artistpoet
Something is not right for sure ... Is your Mother Canadian or English or dual nationaliity


You know? Damned if I know but I never heard her say she gave up her British citizenship. We're getting a bit off topic though.


All Canadian related posts deleted due to super moderater causing thread drift...


My credentials as to parliamentary procedure and Brit culture was in question.


How often to we get to do that though!

As a non UK member would you prefer us to stay together, split up or not care less?

International opinion is always a good insight with internal subjects.


As an outsider I see all aspects of this situation. We also have experience with that in Canada. Scotland will NOT not leave. It works for everyone. The LOUDEST do make it difficult though.


It was a pretty close call and now the people have voted pretty much outright for a nationalist party.

Does this not show that they are unhappy with the union and how would you explain LOUDEST? I am not sure I understand your meaning with this, do you mean majority?


Another thing that we are familiar with.... regional parties. The Block Quebecois and Party Quebecois were separatist parties that Quebeckers voted for(regional self preservation) but didn't vote for independence. You may be reading too much into that vote.

AND the margin of error in the last referendum was DAMN close(barely 1%):

en.wikipedia.org...

We are beyond that now.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 03:59 PM
link   

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: blupblup

Of course I understand that not of all London is a Tory stronghold
I wrote in jest ... And am more disappointed than angry after the election
I think this a general reaction and feeling of powerlessness

I am sure many Londoners are also disappointed
Maybe we should build that moat around Westninster

I think a referendum including England regarding Scottish independence is in practical
I do believe in decentralisation of power ... so people can have more of a say in their local community

Here is map of London after the election to emphasis the point you made







Some good points and an informative map.

How would this relate to the question of weather another Scotish independance referendum should invole all four nations of the UK though?



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:02 PM
link   

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: artistpoet
Something is not right for sure ... Is your Mother Canadian or English or dual nationaliity


You know? Damned if I know but I never heard her say she gave up her British citizenship. We're getting a bit off topic though.


All Canadian related posts deleted due to super moderater causing thread drift...


My credentials as to parliamentary procedure and Brit culture was in question.


How often to we get to do that though!

As a non UK member would you prefer us to stay together, split up or not care less?

International opinion is always a good insight with internal subjects.


As an outsider I see all aspects of this situation. We also have experience with that in Canada. Scotland will NOT not leave. It works for everyone. The LOUDEST do make it difficult though.


It was a pretty close call and now the people have voted pretty much outright for a nationalist party.

Does this not show that they are unhappy with the union and how would you explain LOUDEST? I am not sure I understand your meaning with this, do you mean majority?


Another thing that we are familiar with.... regional parties. The Block Quebecois and Party Quebecois were separatist parties that Quebeckers voted for(regional self preservation) but didn't vote for independence. You may be reading too much into that vote.

AND the margin of error in the last referendum was DAMN close(barely 1%):

en.wikipedia.org...

We are beyond that now.


Sorry some confusion there I was reffereing to the Scotish referendum.

I know little of the Canadian situation, are these regions, provinces or seperate nations within a Union.

As I say I have no understanding of Canadian politics, in fact most of what I know is from south park but I am pretty sure you do not all have flip top heads and say aboot a lot



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: artistpoet
Something is not right for sure ... Is your Mother Canadian or English or dual nationaliity


You know? Damned if I know but I never heard her say she gave up her British citizenship. We're getting a bit off topic though.


All Canadian related posts deleted due to super moderater causing thread drift...


My credentials as to parliamentary procedure and Brit culture was in question.


How often to we get to do that though!

As a non UK member would you prefer us to stay together, split up or not care less?

International opinion is always a good insight with internal subjects.


As an outsider I see all aspects of this situation. We also have experience with that in Canada. Scotland will NOT not leave. It works for everyone. The LOUDEST do make it difficult though.


It was a pretty close call and now the people have voted pretty much outright for a nationalist party.

Does this not show that they are unhappy with the union and how would you explain LOUDEST? I am not sure I understand your meaning with this, do you mean majority?


Another thing that we are familiar with.... regional parties. The Block Quebecois and Party Quebecois were separatist parties that Quebeckers voted for(regional self preservation) but didn't vote for independence. You may be reading too much into that vote.

AND the margin of error in the last referendum was DAMN close(barely 1%):

en.wikipedia.org...

We are beyond that now.


Sorry some confusion there I was reffereing to the Scotish referendum.

I know little of the Canadian situation, are these regions, provinces or seperate nations within a Union.


There are similarities. Quebec has a "unique" status in Canada. Not necessarily a separate nation but a different culture. And they twice decided to remain in Canada.

ETA: There does appear to be a difference. The older French seem to be more separatist and the Scots seem to be motivated by the younger generation. Ours are literally dying off. Yours will get older and learn wisdom.
edit on 9-5-2015 by intrepid because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:10 PM
link   

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: artistpoet
Something is not right for sure ... Is your Mother Canadian or English or dual nationaliity


You know? Damned if I know but I never heard her say she gave up her British citizenship. We're getting a bit off topic though.


All Canadian related posts deleted due to super moderater causing thread drift...


My credentials as to parliamentary procedure and Brit culture was in question.


How often to we get to do that though!

As a non UK member would you prefer us to stay together, split up or not care less?

International opinion is always a good insight with internal subjects.


As an outsider I see all aspects of this situation. We also have experience with that in Canada. Scotland will NOT not leave. It works for everyone. The LOUDEST do make it difficult though.


It was a pretty close call and now the people have voted pretty much outright for a nationalist party.


Does this not show that they are unhappy with the union and how would you explain LOUDEST? I am not sure I understand your meaning with this, do you mean majority?


Another thing that we are familiar with.... regional parties. The Block Quebecois and Party Quebecois were separatist parties that Quebeckers voted for(regional self preservation) but didn't vote for independence. You may be reading too much into that vote.

AND the margin of error in the last referendum was DAMN close(barely 1%):

en.wikipedia.org...

We are beyond that now.


Sorry some confusion there I was reffereing to the Scotish referendum.

I know little of the Canadian situation, are these regions, provinces or seperate nations within a Union.


There are similarities. Quebec has a "unique" status in Canada. Not necessarily a separate nation but a different culture. And they twice decided to remain in Canada.


So would you say that there unique status in Canada is similar to Scotlands relationship with the UK?

They have already had a close no vote so I assume from your comparison they would say no again.

In reference to the OP how would the rest of Canada vote if given a choice similar to the one I proposed for the UK in the OP?

Would Canada as a whole vote for them to stay or would they choose an option that ejected them from the union?

edit on 9/5/2015 by nonspecific because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:11 PM
link   
a reply to: artistpoet


I know mate, most of my post wasn't actually aimed at you.. I just noticed a lot of inflammatory comments and pettiness so thought I'd say something.
I think Witney (Cameron's Seat) and the whole Chipping Norton Set and all of that, the Cotswolds...
There are areas where many people love the Tories and will never change.

But in every Tory stronghold, in every UKIP town and in SNP majority Scotland, there are plenty with opposing views.
There are plenty of decent, fair-minded and liberal people in The Shires (Ox,Berks, Bucks etc) and London and all over the south.

The problem isn't geography or where you happen to live... it's education...apathy...an honest and open political discussion.
It's understanding that this whole mess, the reason we're screwed is because of the the system and because of wealthy people playing with and gambling our money... with people syphoning our money away from us and making billions of of the others misery.

The "Wealth Creators" have the game rigged.. and we will not win

Many people don't vote and those that do often do because of the way their family votes or the way the Murdoch press has told them etc etc.

We have serious problems in our society and NONE of them will be solved by electing a Conservative Government.
Well if you're among the wealthiest in the country then sure, you may do well... but all others will suffer, regardless of where they are on the map.

The I'm All Right Union Jack is in full effect it seems.

It may say "American" but it's relevant to everyone.




edit on 9/5/15 by blupblup because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:12 PM
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originally posted by: artistpoet
There is a present petition calling for the North of England to be able to join Scotland ... as they have more in common with Scotland than South of Nottingham ... I kid you not



" Allow the north of England to secede from the UK and join Scotland"

www.change.org... nment-allow-the-north-of-england-to-secede-from-the-uk-and-join-scotland?recruiter=293276965&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaig n=autopublish&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-reason_msg&fb_ref=Default


Great. We Can kill two birds with one stone and get those poor whiny northerners off our backs.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: artistpoet


I know mate, most of my post wasn't actually aimed at you.. I just noticed a lot of inflammatory comments and pettiness so thought I'd say something.
I think Abingdon (Cameron's Seat) and the whole Chipping Norton Set and all of that, the Cotswolds...
There are areas where many people love the Tories and will never change.

But in every Tory stronghold, in every UKIP town and in SNP majority Scotland, there are plenty with opposing views.
There are plenty of decent, fair-minded and liberal people in The Shires (Ox,Berks, Bucks etc) and London and all over the south.

The problem isn't geography or where you happen to live... it's education...apathy...an honest and open political discussion.
It's understanding that this whole mess, the reason we're screwed is because of the the system and because of wealthy people playing with and gambling our money... with people syphoning our money away from us and making billions of of the others misery.

The "Wealth Creators" have the game rigged.. and we will not win

Many people don't vote and those that do often do because of the way their family votes or the way the Murdoch press has told them etc etc.

We have serious problems in our society and NONE of them will be solved by electing a Conservative Government.
Well if your among the wealthiest in the country then sure, you may do well... but all others will suffer, regardless of where they are on the map.

The I'm All Right Union Jack is in full effect it seems.

It may say "American" but it's relevant to everyone.









Some cracking points there mate and a bit of Carlin at the end for good measure, never a bad thing.

Maybe its's me, maybe it's late but the question of weather or not a future referendum on Scotish independance should be one asked of the entire UK and not just Scotland?



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:16 PM
link   

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: artistpoet
Something is not right for sure ... Is your Mother Canadian or English or dual nationaliity


You know? Damned if I know but I never heard her say she gave up her British citizenship. We're getting a bit off topic though.


All Canadian related posts deleted due to super moderater causing thread drift...


My credentials as to parliamentary procedure and Brit culture was in question.


How often to we get to do that though!

As a non UK member would you prefer us to stay together, split up or not care less?

International opinion is always a good insight with internal subjects.


As an outsider I see all aspects of this situation. We also have experience with that in Canada. Scotland will NOT not leave. It works for everyone. The LOUDEST do make it difficult though.


It was a pretty close call and now the people have voted pretty much outright for a nationalist party.


Does this not show that they are unhappy with the union and how would you explain LOUDEST? I am not sure I understand your meaning with this, do you mean majority?


Another thing that we are familiar with.... regional parties. The Block Quebecois and Party Quebecois were separatist parties that Quebeckers voted for(regional self preservation) but didn't vote for independence. You may be reading too much into that vote.

AND the margin of error in the last referendum was DAMN close(barely 1%):

en.wikipedia.org...

We are beyond that now.


Sorry some confusion there I was reffereing to the Scotish referendum.

I know little of the Canadian situation, are these regions, provinces or seperate nations within a Union.


There are similarities. Quebec has a "unique" status in Canada. Not necessarily a separate nation but a different culture. And they twice decided to remain in Canada.


So would you say that there unique status in Canada is similar to Scotlands relationship with the UK?

They have already had a close no vote so I assume from your comparison they would say no again.

In reference to the OP how would the rest of Canada vote if given a choice similar to the one I proposed for the UK in the OP?

Would Canada as a whole vote for them to stay or would they choose an option that ejected them from the union?


There was a time that Canada would have said, "Screw the ungrateful bastards. Hell, we let them keep their culture after we beat them on the Plains of Abraham." That's British history too btw.


Would the whole nation have voted them out? Depends on the time. At certain times I believe we would have and it would have been the BIGGEST mistake. Decades later we are doing well together.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific




How would this relate to the question of weather another Scotish independance referendum should invole all four nations of the UK though?


It is since the election and the results in Scotland that others have voiced also wishing some form of independence.
Scottish Independence should be decided by the Scottish
Unless there was a change of national boundary

Here in Yorkshire ... it has been voiced we should also be independent

I have no answer to satisfy the wants of all obviously and can't see how such a referendum could fairly involve non Scots



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:18 PM
link   
a reply to: blupblup




The problem isn't geography or where you happen to live... it's education...apathy...an honest and open political discussion. It's understanding that this whole mess, the reason we're screwed is because of the the system and because of wealthy people playing with and gambling our money... with people syphoning our money away from us and making billions of of the others misery. The "Wealth Creators" have the game rigged.. and we will not win


You put that really well, and I agree with you entirely. My own view is that the Yes voters share your sentiment, they are not 'anti-English', they are anti-Tory greed. But the way out of that, for us, is to leave the UK.
It's drastic, but it feels like the only way out. It doesn't mean that I don't acknowledge and care about the rest of the UK who are getting screwed by the system. But I can understand how it must come across that way.
Just my opinion.

B x



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:19 PM
link   
a reply to: crazyewok

Speaking from a region of England which is just as underfunded and forgotten about by Westminster as the North I would support whatever they wish if they vote for it.
...I imagine if there were no tourist industry here, and mainly low level crime, beautiful beaches, and friendly police, then I would probably whinge like a victim as many Northern members on ATS do...or maybe not, I'd just move, as I did over a quarter of a century ago.



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