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Kentucky ‘free range’ family loses custody of 10 kids over apparent ‘unschooling’

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posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: Rocker2013


a miracle that none of them have - and probably because they have plenty of locals willing to provide for them when they needed it.


Exactly

People not familiar with small town communities don't realize how they operate. I have heard of Hardinsburg but wasn't completely familiar with it. So I looked it up, The medium income is around $30,000 a year with around 20% living below the poverty and level. That's a town of a little over 2000 people. For the most part people stay out of each other's business. The reason for that being is that there's not much to discuss. When you have a community that small everyone knows everyone else's skeletons in their closets.

Now if you take a group of people like that, that expresses concern for a member of their community. You can be pretty sure they know what they're talking about. I did not hear in any of the reports anyone from that community express concern over Home schooling.

To a person they were concerned about the children's safety. I've been trying to locate the video I saw, haven't had any luck so far. But here is a news article and video from a local station. (that gives both sides)

article won't link directly go to Metro section

I saw this channel quoted quite a bit on the Internet. But I haven't seen a actual link to it.

edit on 9-5-2015 by Greathouse because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: Sublimecraft

Each society raises there families according to societal norms. Right or wrong doesn't really play into it.

I said I would not involve young kids in a off grid project until I could provide a warm safe place to sleep and bathroom and washing facilities. My only reason for this is because our society will inform the local authorities if your not doing the same things they feel they must do or provide.

Im really sick of laws that are in place because you might hurt yourself. Has any of these kids suffered injuries? Illness? or any other provable things that would show they are living in a unhealthy environment?



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

They live in a rural setting in a very small town. You ask who's concern is it? I believe it is the concern of the community most closely associated with them. Now it just might be me, but I believe I'll listen to the people most familiar with hands-on experience on the subject.

As opposed to people who have a belief and follow that belief on the Internet.


That's just the realist in me.
edit on 9-5-2015 by Greathouse because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:41 PM
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a reply to: Greathouse

Just as small communities like that tend to be close knit, and know everything that goes on, said community can also turn on an unwanted family that they feel aren't fitting in.

It's hard to know what's the truth until it's properly investigated. That is, IF it's properly investigated.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:47 PM
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a reply to: EternalSolace

you make some good points..
i wonder if anyone ever offered help to this family?
or just shunned them because they were different.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:49 PM
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a reply to: EternalSolace

Definitely, but I'll guarantee you a whole community won't use children as a weapon. Is seems to be implied by many on this thread.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: Rocker2013


Why don't they have ten kids each? Because they know that it takes a village to raise just a small group of kids,

On this, we fully agree. It DOES take a village to raise a child. I did not respond to the meme that greencmp posted because I found it to be inflammatory.

Children are not "property." They belong to the human race.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:53 PM
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originally posted by: Greathouse


They live in a rural setting in a very small town. You ask who's concern is it? I believe it is the concern of the community most closely associated with them. Now it just might be me, but I believe I'll listen to the people most familiar with hands-on experience on the subject.


But what are they really saying? "This family is so lazy". "These people are troublemakers". "Those kids are better off without them". But give me some HARD evidence, like, "That boy had lice 5 times last year" or "the daughter comes into town filthy and with no shoes"or "none of the kids can read and they're always sick"... Something concrete, you know? Not just judgments.

So, she had a baby in a tent in winter. Women have done that for thousands of years. Sometimes the baby or the mother doesn't make it. It happened to my niece. She died from a staff infection she got in the hospital. Her infant lived.



That's just the realist in me.


Well, what is REALLY going on with this family? Shouldn't the authorities find that out before they traumatize the entire family?



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 04:54 PM
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a reply to: Greathouse

The community as a whole likely wouldn't... I can agree on that. However, CPS will use their children as a weapon without a second thought and not lose a wink of sleep over it either.

Self-sufficient families are a threat to government.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:02 PM
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originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Witness2008
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Are you aware of the many millions of children that are in public education that continually fall behind and stay behind because they lack those same basic skills that you demand that home school children have?

I would suggest that there are fewer (proportionally) uneducated home schooled children compared to kids in the public schools.



I am not saying that public schools are perfect. What I am saying is that when properly funded and supported they can do a hell of a lot better job at educating children than some parents can at home, because they have the resources to do so. Schools take the time and effort to educate children. That's the whole point. How many hours of the day can parents take to homeschool their own children? How can they work and homeschool? How much attention does each child get? What kind of books are available? What if there's a dyslexic child? What's the best way to educate your child on geography? Science? Literature?

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm sure that there are dedicated parents who take the time and effort to give their children the best homeschooling possible. But what kind of percentage of the homeschooling total do they make up? How many more kids are being let down by their parents due to the latter's lack of resources or worse personal religious or political beliefs? When I went to school I loved the library there and I would spend hours in it, reading. Can homeschooled children do that?



Bull.

I taught myself four times as much outside of school. I slept in class because it was so slow and boring. I didn't even show up to most of my senior year. They sent a letter saying, "You can miss no more than 20 days" or something like that. So I made sure that I missed 19 more days. It's not that the teachers are that horrible. It's not that the subjects are that horrible. It's that the curriculum is so... boring and slow and even inaccurate at that. And now it's worse. And now there is even more of all that indoctrination garbage going on. But, no fear.

I have three kids. They're probably going to public school. They will be taught how to put on condoms and to explore their homosexual urges before they figure out what "Subject, Object, Verb" means. Whatever. Do you know why I'm not afraid? Because I'm a genius. And so are my kids because I do my best to make sure that they are. Are they going to come back home full of garbage? Yeah. They'll figure it out. Or they'll ask me. And I'll make them figure it out. Public school is glorified daycare now. When my kids are home and I'm with them, they learn more in 5 minutes than they did all day. Public school is about socializing. That's it. That's ALL. It's run by the government. Why would you expect that it should be a place to learn? Are you mad? Of COURSE they want to create drones for the government because THAT'S WHO RUNS IT.

Why be so narrow and unthinking and slow? Where is honest consideration without bias?

When I was a kid in school, I always struggled with this thing: Why are adults just as foolish as children? Why don't they know more? Will I become that stupid?

I'm not exactly an elder, but at 31 years of age, I think I know the answer: Most of you are too dishonest and lazy to care how wrong you are. You're just fighting to maintain your fantasy bubble. You're bored and need something to do; but considering truth, the kind that costs you your pride and pierces your heart at the expense of everything that makes you comfortable, this you will never do... even if you suffer for the rest of your life, you won't get it. I used to also wonder why I was so smart and some others weren't. It genuinely bothered me that I figured things out which caused so much apparent struggle in other people. Ah, but I have seen it now. It's not struggle. It's feigned struggle. It's a lack of real care. It's a frustration which masks the laziness of the individual. They say, "You fall asleep, you're so lazy." Interesting, because I know the answers and you don't. Who is lazy? Tell me: You don't believe in a god, so therefore, you don't believe that the information could have been set inside my brain pan. You believe you have to study so hard, only to struggle in misery to get an "A" - but clearly you don't see my studying so hard and struggling... I mean, how do you think the stuff got there, radio waves? No, you're lazy. You were raised spoiled, you will raise your kids spoiled, you'll think you're so great with the education you worked so hard for that is so incredibly easy to find in Encyclopediae and, now, online. Or, wait - better yet - CONSIDER THE WORLD AROUND YOU. Sit down, shut up, and exercise your brain - figure something out! Investigate! But you won't. You think you're investigating when you're always only searching for those things which match your bias. And when you stumble upon those things against which you are biased, you must find a way to discredit it - hypocritically, because you overlook all of the evidence which discredits your own bias.

1)The state runs the schools, don't complain that they teach their garbage - but it is just that, garbage.
2)No learning ever happened inside a school building. Learning is physically manifest in the nervous system. It's your brain - use it.
3)Respect governments. They have to deal with a lot of idiots, even if they are not very wise governments themselves. There are over 7 billion people on this planet, and there are not 1 billion authorities. They don't have time to see everything from your point of view, and they don't care to - it's not their job. That's your job.
4)Stop whining. Find solutions.
5)You will fail. You are a failure. Shut up and fight that demon. Genius doesn't come from genetics. It comes from LONG suffering (it's relative to the individual). If you turn this world into fairy land, the next generation will have a mean I.Q. (as if that matters) of 50.
6)Leave people and their kids alone. The government is doing their job - intervention. You don't know them. You can't judge. You won't ever have enough information to judge because a) you're whining and b) you're not the one in the story.
7)Stop believing ANY FORM OF MEDIA. ANY FORM. AT ALL. EVER. FOREVER. Read, absorb, experience, process, discard, juxtapose, hypothesize, deduce, and finally, understand. Most people are idiots because they do this: Read, absorb, pontificate - and not always in that order.
7b)Allow me to add that your own judgments and biases are a form of media. That's spiritual media, whether you recognize it or not. Stop believing it. Here are the things that are really easy to believe if you are not in a vegetative state: love and hate. Done.

I could keep going. This has been fun. I always could keep going.

Oh and yes, you guessed it. I didn't see a single mindful post in this thread. Hence the slight frustration. Enjoy.

Edited to add that this response is meant for everyone, though the very beginning started by me calling out the poster whose flush meat I quoted.






edit on 5/9/2015 by TarzanBeta because: Yeah.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:05 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I saw a segment on a local PBS channel and I believe the program was Kentucky tonight. Almost to the person interviewed they expressed concern for the children's safety. I will grant you that one person claimed it just wasn't right or natural. ( but then again you can't ever speak for every single person)

Check out that link you reminded me was broke. ( thanks I fixed it) They only have one guy interviewed there but he expresses the same concern. They also have the audio of the very first confrontation by the sheriff with the family. Listen to the sheriff you could hear concern in his voice and politeness.that's just the way most rural people interact with each other it's a seldom implied term anymore it's called respect. Then the lady goes off on him. That heighten my concern for the children even more.

There's an upcoming hearing and you'll be glad to hear as am I that in all likelihood the children are going back to the family. Let's monitor it then to see if the community comes out to help?
edit on 9-5-2015 by Greathouse because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:10 PM
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originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: Greathouse

The community as a whole likely wouldn't... I can agree on that. However, CPS will use their children as a weapon without a second thought and not lose a wink of sleep over it either.

Self-sufficient families are a threat to government.


There is no guarantee the KCPS Will come down on them like that. Remember this isn't the CPS in New York City. The caseload isn't quite the same. Hardinsburg has just over 2000 people, when you get more time to deal one on one with the family the outcome is usually much better.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:22 PM
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a reply to: Greathouse



“They're living underneath tarps,” he said. “So kinda take it at that.”


WTF does that mean? I've slept in a tent in the snowy high Sierras. I've lived on the street. So, they live under tarps. Are they happy, healthy, and living without sickness? Are they in danger?

People can express concern for the children's safety, but do they have any indication at all that the children aren't safe and taken care of? If my neighbors or the people of the town "expressed concern" for my dogs, I would expect an INVESTIGATION. If they came and summarily took my dogs from me without any proof that they were suffering, I think I'd lose my mind! I'd "go off" on some authority that was trying to steal my dogs, I can only imagine if it was my children!

I'll be eager to hear more about the story. My point is if they were stealing water, they should arrest the person who was doing it, NOT separate the children from their mother as some kind of punishment or control mechanism. That's what I think is happening. The people of the town seem to be just gossips who have a grudge on this family.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:22 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

I do think an investigation is warranted... But to TAKE their children summarily, without warning, without a warrant, without proof of an order, is horrendous! Find out if the kids are suffering first! These kids will be scarred from this. If the authorities REALLY had the children's interests at heart, wouldn't they have at least found out if there was a REAL reason to interfere, instead of listening to the gossip of the townspeople?


I did some searching. The parents refused to cooperate with CPS.

Children are automatically protected by the government - - which may sound wrong - - but is actually necessary.

I'm sure there are threads on ATS about CPS being negligent - - not doing their job. This time they did their job.

Reason they were reported (as I read). They don't have their own well functional. They borrow water from neighbors wells. One neighbor refused and told them to get off his property. The father told his son to get his gun and threatened the property owner. Property owner reported it.

The main issue seems to be the danger of the property. There is "allegedly" broken glass, nails, trash, and other debris scattered near the living area. The one room cabin is new, but its only an outer shell without insulation. They have an outside kitchen and outhouse.

In support: they sound very intelligent and organized with their plans for improvements.

So, why did the father behave as he did and threaten the neighbor? (allegedly).



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:25 PM
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a reply to: TarzanBeta

Your post struck a nerve with me...




1)The state runs the schools, don't complain that they teach their garbage - but it is just that, garbage.


People should complain. So long as the government oversees, requires it, and can take away children for not attending, it's every parents right to be critical of what is taught in schools.



2)No learning ever happened inside a school building. Learning is physically manifest in the nervous system. It's your brain - use it.


All type of learning takes place within school. To deny that is ignorent.



3)Respect governments. They have to deal with a lot of idiots, even if they are not very wise governments themselves. There are over 7 billion people on this planet, and there are not 1 billion authorities. They don't have time to see everything from your point of view, and they don't care to - it's not their job. That's your job.


Governments are put in place to serve the people. They are elected by the people. It IS their job to see their constituents point of view. I do not respect a government that does not respect the rights of the people.



4)Stop whining. Find solutions.

The first step in finding a solution is recognizing there is a problem.



5)You will fail. You are a failure. Shut up and fight that demon. Genius doesn't come from genetics. It comes from LONG suffering (it's relative to the individual). If you turn this world into fairy land, the next generation will have a mean I.Q. (as if that matters) of 50.


One only fails if they give up.


6)Leave people and their kids alone. The government is doing their job - intervention. You don't know them. You can't judge. You won't ever have enough information to judge because a) you're whining and b) you're not the one in the story.


It is not the government's job to intervene in any family unless a family is placing a minor's wellfare in danger. While people shouldn't judge, they can form opinions.


7)Stop believing ANY FORM OF MEDIA. ANY FORM. AT ALL. EVER. FOREVER. Read, absorb, experience, process, discard, juxtapose, hypothesize, deduce, and finally, understand. Most people are idiots because they do this: Read, absorb, pontificate - and not always in that order.


How does one learn about anything going on the world if they aren't to read any form of media. A book is a form of media. A newspaper is a form of media. You'd be better off saying that one should question everything and learn to think for themselves.


7b)Allow me to add that your own judgments and biases are a form of media. That's spiritual media, whether you recognize it or not. Stop believing it. Here are the things that are really easy to believe if you are not in a vegetative state: love and hate. Done.


I trust my instincts. When proven wrong, I adjust. Once again, think for yourself.


edit on 5/9/2015 by EternalSolace because: (no reason given)

edit on 5/9/2015 by EternalSolace because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:25 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: Greathouse



“They're living underneath tarps,” he said. “So kinda take it at that.”


WTF does that mean? I've slept in a tent in the snowy high Sierras. I've lived on the street. So, they live under tarps. Are they happy, healthy, and living without sickness? Are they in danger?


They are not living under tarps. The animals are.

They have a newly built one room house/cabin.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:27 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
So, why did the father behave as he did and threaten the neighbor? (allegedly).


Good question. Shouldn't he be arrested and charged with a crime if he actually did that? Or does the authority take their children as a way to control the family? The father was right there. The authorities took 8 of the kids from him and let him go. If the problem is the father, deal with the father, don't punish the whole family by stealing their kids.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:29 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
They are not living under tarps. The animals are.


That's what the
concerned neighbor" in the article said. Source



Nicole and Joe Naugler are facing charges in a case that has prompted an outcry on social media from supporters of their family's “off-the-grid” lifestyle.

Neighbor Travis Metcalf isn't buying it.

“They're living underneath tarps,” he said. “So kinda take it at that.”

edit on 5/9/2015 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Here are the pictures that are from the Wave 3 article I linked to on the first page of the thread. I believe it is the front and back of what is said to be their living quarters. While I don't think that CPS or anyone has any business messing with this family, I don't believe that the shelter is sufficient.





'Off-grid' couple faces hearing to regain custody of 10 children
edit on 5/9/2015 by EternalSolace because: Added source for pictures.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:37 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Annee
They are not living under tarps. The animals are.


That's what the
concerned neighbor" in the article said. Source



Nicole and Joe Naugler are facing charges in a case that has prompted an outcry on social media from supporters of their family's “off-the-grid” lifestyle.

Neighbor Travis Metcalf isn't buying it.

“They're living underneath tarps,” he said. “So kinda take it at that.”


I know. So I researched further.

They have a newly built one room cabin. While the kids do have the free will to sleep outside under tarps (or the sky) if they choose - - they also have the free will to stay in the cabin.



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