Boston University prof flunks 'white masculinity' in controversial tweets

a reply to: Sremmos80

White people get fired all the time for saying anything borderline racist. Free speech doesn't exist.

a reply to: poncho1982

Well said!

a reply to: Indigo5

You do realize that every race has been a slave throughout history right? Black slave masters were the ones who sold the black slaves to the white slave masters.

GET IT? I will say it one more time for you because your bias is so strong you will forget it right away.

BLACK SLAVE MASTERS SOLD BLACK SLAVES TO WHITE SLAVE MASTERS.

Does that hurt to read?

What about Jews? They had it SOOOO much worse than blacks ever did when it comes to racism and much more recently as well.

Ever heard of the holocaust? I don't hear Jews going around complaining every day. In fact, I have never heard a Jew complain about the holocaust. They aren't going around asking for special treatment or reparations.

Your paradigm is so twisted and racist I doubt any of this will get through to you though.

You're practicing it right now.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence when you say something excessively stupid, and/or derogatory.

Remember a few years back when the Dixie Chicks who were as hot a country group as any went to England (I think), and the lead singer made derogatory remarks towards George Bush? Their careers were destroyed virtually over night by the reaction of their fan base.

Comments, and repercussions. Flip sides of the same coin.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: poncho1982

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Metallicus


The double standard about who can tweet what isn't what bothers me about this, although, if this were turned around in any sense then we would see firings and outrage of epic proportions.

All the arguments about WHAT IF A WHITE PERSON DID/SAID this or that...is premised on the idea that racism and history does not exist.

If white people were declared cattle property belonging to black people for 200 years in North America followed by a declining but still present racist climate...then we can talk apples to apples.

This woman says stupid things..agreed, but the simple mind-set of what if a white person said it does not work. African Americans and White People in the USA are not apples to apples.

It's an exhausting fallacy...what if my sister was my brother and my dog was my cat!

White people are not treated the same as black people in this country and never have been...getting better? yes...but still a problem and a reality. Apples to oranges.

Tell me more about how my family, who never owned slaves and were 100% northerners are in any way shape or form responsible for this.

AS I recall we even fought and supported a war to end it.

Yes we ARE apples to apples. If you believe otherwise then YOU have the problem.

For 200 years SOUTHERNERS owned slaves, and NORTHERNERS finally had enough and fought them to stand up for what's right. Whites and Blacks fighting for it.

Underground railroad mean anything to you?

Your simplistic view of history is problematic at best.

SINCE Slavery happened in the past and no one today owned slaves or was directly responsible THEN Racism in the USA no longer exists and is no longer an issue.

You can tell me if you are able to spot the fault in your logic.

Let's get something straight there. The Black slave trade was just that, A Black slave trade. Most "slavers" were Black, most of the slave ship owners were Black, and the very first legal slave owner in the us was Black. You can trace ALL of slavery back to black people.

That first slave owner? Before him it was indentured servitude, and after a period of time they were freed. HE was the one who sued in court to keep his slaves for life, thus ushering in the era of lifelong slaves.

en.wikipedia.org...

So, blaming White people is getting old. Maybe some of that animosity that Black people are feeling from White people today, is because we are sick and tired of being blamed, and viewed as responsible for things we do not do. Yes, many do not like Black people, but not for the racist reasons people think. It's because we can sense that Black people don't like us. Some of us deal with it, some act out. It's human nature.

The day Black people make the decision for stop living in the past, and accept responsibility for their lives, will be the beginning of the end of that animosity.

I'm speaking in generalizations here, which as a rule, I do not like to do, but for sake of getting the point across, I did. Not everyone is the same from any group. To be sure, there are Blacks who do not hate Whites, and visa versa.

originally posted by: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3
a reply to: Sremmos80

White people get fired all the time for saying anything borderline racist. Free speech doesn't exist.

You don't understand free speech. Tell your boss to go eff himself and then rant about the first amendment and see where that gets you.

originally posted by: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3
a reply to: Indigo5

You do realize that every race has been a slave throughout history right? Black slave masters were the ones who sold the black slaves to the white slave masters.

GET IT?

Jesus...it never gets old when people drop that like revelation. Explain to me how that justifies slavery...then explain to me the difference between history and the present...then tell me that racism in the USA does not exist today because African markets sold slaves to the USA.

originally posted by: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3
a reply to: Indigo5

What about Jews? They had it SOOOO much worse than blacks ever did when it comes to racism and much more recently as well.

Ever heard of the holocaust? I don't hear Jews going around complaining every day. In fact, I have never heard a Jew complain about the holocaust. They aren't going around asking for special treatment or reparations.

Now you are just being comedic right? Yah...for the Jews, the Holocaust is no big deal...not like they had international tribunals, got their own country and hunt down surviving Nazi's even today. Next up you can contemplate what the USA's role was in WW2 vs. Slavery...then you can explain to me how the suffering of the Jewish people at the hands of Nazi's half a world away has to do with racism in the USA? Is the USA Nazi's in your scenario? You inability to think is mind numbing.

originally posted by: poncho1982

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: poncho1982

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Metallicus


The double standard about who can tweet what isn't what bothers me about this, although, if this were turned around in any sense then we would see firings and outrage of epic proportions.

All the arguments about WHAT IF A WHITE PERSON DID/SAID this or that...is premised on the idea that racism and history does not exist.

If white people were declared cattle property belonging to black people for 200 years in North America followed by a declining but still present racist climate...then we can talk apples to apples.

This woman says stupid things..agreed, but the simple mind-set of what if a white person said it does not work. African Americans and White People in the USA are not apples to apples.

It's an exhausting fallacy...what if my sister was my brother and my dog was my cat!

White people are not treated the same as black people in this country and never have been...getting better? yes...but still a problem and a reality. Apples to oranges.

Tell me more about how my family, who never owned slaves and were 100% northerners are in any way shape or form responsible for this.

AS I recall we even fought and supported a war to end it.

Yes we ARE apples to apples. If you believe otherwise then YOU have the problem.

For 200 years SOUTHERNERS owned slaves, and NORTHERNERS finally had enough and fought them to stand up for what's right. Whites and Blacks fighting for it.

Underground railroad mean anything to you?

Your simplistic view of history is problematic at best.

SINCE Slavery happened in the past and no one today owned slaves or was directly responsible THEN Racism in the USA no longer exists and is no longer an issue.

You can tell me if you are able to spot the fault in your logic.

Let's get something straight there. The Black slave trade was just that, A Black slave trade. Most "slavers" were Black, most of the slave ship owners were Black, and the very first legal slave owner in the us was Black. You can trace ALL of slavery back to black people.

I have to stop you there, cuz that is some seriously effen idiotic logic.

You are justifying the institution of slavery in the USA because a black man owned slaves? Or because black men sold slaves? How does that logic work?...DO you realize you are citing a British legal ruling? scratch that...had my fill of stupid town for the day, save you answer for the next white power gathering.

a reply to: Indigo5

That makes no sense. I was referring to white people being fired for racist comments, whereas black people are currently immune.

What part of my comment had anything to do with me telling my boss to go eff himself? Who would do that? Why even say something so idiotic?

Your reply has literally nothing to do with my comment.

a reply to: Indigo5

Where did I say it justifies slavery? I was just stating basic facts because honestly, there is a very large number of people both black and white that don't know that.

The reason that blacks were used so much at that time in history as slaves, was mainly due to economics. Supply and demand. There were a lot of black slaves to be bought for cheap from those black slave masters. Also, they tended to be best suited for manual labor.

Does this justify it? Of course not.

Is life fair? NO! -- Life has never been fair. Is it fair that millions of African children die every year from things that are easily preventable? NO! That doesn't make it stop though.

Black slaves in America would have been slaves no matter what. Do you honestly think that they would have had a better life being a slave in Africa? You are kidding yourself. If anything, they were saved from a far worse life, and their children can now reap the benefits of living in the US vs Africa.

I am not a comedian. The holocaust was far worse than anything any other race/culture has had to deal with and they took it in stride. Why wouldn't we hunt down surviving Nazi's? They were international war criminals.

Your lack of reading comprehension explains your racist bias.

originally posted by: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3
a reply to: Indigo5

That makes no sense. I was referring to white people being fired for racist comments, whereas black people are currently immune.

No...you said "free speech doesn't exist" because white people get fired for racist comments.

I explained you don't understand what free speech is...it is not immunity from consequences for saying dumb things.


Maybe re-read your own post?

originally posted by: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3
a reply to: Indigo5


Black slaves in America would have been slaves no matter what. Do you honestly think that they would have had a better life being a slave in Africa? You are kidding yourself. If anything, they were saved from a far worse life, and their children can now reap the benefits of living in the US vs Africa.

Jesus...where to go with this thinking? There were African Slave markets because there was Demand...Demand drove the slave trade...and ...Yah...Colonial America was a Disneyland for slaves..

There is a lot of frustration and disappointment among the general black population right now. This black professor may be verbalizing her own frustration. At a historical time in history, when America put the first black family in the White House, everybody's hopes were raised and expectations that the black communities would better themselves were high.

Epic failure. Embarrassing. It has gotten worse rather than better. So many, including black politicians and our own First Lady are back to blaming whites. They can't face their own disappointing results.

Even though hundreds of millions of dollars have gone into programs for the benefit of minority populations over the decades, they are still cesspools of crime, poverty, drugs, and gang violence. Nothing ever changes.

We tip-toe around the 800-lb elephant in the room. We make politically correct excuses. We blame white men. It's human nature not to blame yourself. It takes real strength of character to look yourself squarely in the eye and see who the real problem is.

originally posted by: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3
a reply to: Indigo5

Where did I say it justifies slavery? I was just stating basic facts because honestly, there is a very large number of people both black and white that don't know that.

Absent relevance then it is a rhetorical appeal to ignorance.

Any objective non-racist interpretation of that British Colonial ruling (Maybe you can ponder that) would see the painful obvious fact that it was the decidedly white British Courts that established slavery, not the person petitioning the court.

But again..that, by your own admission, is a baiting distraction as the best excuse you can offer for interjecting that irrelevant fact is that "a very large number of people ..don't know that".

a reply to: Indigo5 I have been reading your posts for a few pages. Do you have a proposed plan of action to resolve these issues?

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: poncho1982

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: poncho1982

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Metallicus


The double standard about who can tweet what isn't what bothers me about this, although, if this were turned around in any sense then we would see firings and outrage of epic proportions.

All the arguments about WHAT IF A WHITE PERSON DID/SAID this or that...is premised on the idea that racism and history does not exist.

If white people were declared cattle property belonging to black people for 200 years in North America followed by a declining but still present racist climate...then we can talk apples to apples.

This woman says stupid things..agreed, but the simple mind-set of what if a white person said it does not work. African Americans and White People in the USA are not apples to apples.

It's an exhausting fallacy...what if my sister was my brother and my dog was my cat!

White people are not treated the same as black people in this country and never have been...getting better? yes...but still a problem and a reality. Apples to oranges.

Tell me more about how my family, who never owned slaves and were 100% northerners are in any way shape or form responsible for this.

AS I recall we even fought and supported a war to end it.

Yes we ARE apples to apples. If you believe otherwise then YOU have the problem.

For 200 years SOUTHERNERS owned slaves, and NORTHERNERS finally had enough and fought them to stand up for what's right. Whites and Blacks fighting for it.

Underground railroad mean anything to you?

Your simplistic view of history is problematic at best.

SINCE Slavery happened in the past and no one today owned slaves or was directly responsible THEN Racism in the USA no longer exists and is no longer an issue.

You can tell me if you are able to spot the fault in your logic.

Let's get something straight there. The Black slave trade was just that, A Black slave trade. Most "slavers" were Black, most of the slave ship owners were Black, and the very first legal slave owner in the us was Black. You can trace ALL of slavery back to black people.

I have to stop you there, cuz that is some seriously effen idiotic logic.

You are justifying the institution of slavery in the USA because a black man owned slaves? Or because black men sold slaves? How does that logic work?...DO you realize you are citing a British legal ruling? scratch that...had my fill of stupid town for the day, save you answer for the next white power gathering.

Where did I justify anything?

I was merely stating history.

YOU made that inference where I made none.

originally posted by: pteridine
a reply to: Indigo5 I have been reading your posts for a few pages. Do you have a proposed plan of action to resolve these issues?

Acknowledge reality because that informs potential solutions.

Put another way...yes slavery followed by institutional racism significantly, disproportionately, severely negatively impacted African Americans in the USA.

That must be understood to recognize the problem...then the next reality that must be digested...We can't change the past. We have dismantled the institutional racism in the USA...amongst the population? Still bad, but less than it was in the past.

The difficulty for African Americans (as a larger community) is that in the USA it often takes generations to escape poverty. For white people...Mom and dad work blue collar jobs to send Junior to college and have a better life than they had....or at least that is the way it used to work. Now Junior graduates and still lives with mom and dad unless he is a SW Engineer.

Economic Mobility in the USA has been declining and the recession exasperated that decline in moving up...and for African Americans, they hadn't yet had the chance to move up the economic ladder and hadn't disbursed from concentrated impoverished communities. They feel it more.

Solutions? We can talk about how the middle class is shrinking and both African Americans and everybody else is feeling it, but the African Americans more because they got a late start at opportunity?

Or we can simply say...yes you have had it harder than the average guy..yes the chips are stacked against you...now suck it up.

African Americans have a harder time getting ahead in the USA than white people. Government can knock down some of those roadblocks with anti-discriminatory legislation, but the heavy lifting and disproportionate struggle is going to have to be done by the African American community themselves. Their has been lots of bad policy and spending with regard to helping the African American community. Is it harder for a black man to get ahead in the USA...yes...and then what? Life's not fair, government can't fix it, fight to get ahead. I guess that's my bottom line. ...that and people who deny that racism exists or that slavery was a bad thing or whine about the poor plight of the white man ..yada..yada..are really, really stupid.

Also...stop locking up black people for minor drug violations...

originally posted by: Metallicus

Critics say a newly-hired Boston University professor has crossed the line with recent tweets bashing whites, but the school says it’s simply free speech.

“White masculinity isn’t a problem for america’s colleges, white masculinity is THE problem for america’s colleges,” Saida Grundy, an incoming assistant professor of sociology and African-American studies at Boston University, tweeted in March.

In another tweet from January, she wrote: “Every MLK week I commit myself to not spending a dime in white-owned businesses. and every year i find it nearly impossible.”

In another, she called white males a “problem population.”

The double standard about who can tweet what isn't what bothers me about this, although, if this were turned around in any sense then we would see firings and outrage of epic proportions. What truly bothers me about this is that when you create a toxic situation like this professor has done it is impossible to heal as a nation and it creates resentment. This means there is no room for real discussion or debate and no chance for love and mutual respect to come into play. I am disappointed and sad.

SOURCE

I don't always agree with you, but I do agree with you completely here.

I am a liberal. I am a social justice guy. I am an ally.

However, because I truly believe that hate, generalizations about a group/ethnicity/gender, essentialism, stereotypes, are wrong generally, I cannot abide double standards. One cannot believe that it is wrong to generalize or project hate on to any group, and then say "except for when it's white people."

Even as a leftist, I have noticed this trend and it really has begun to bother me.

And, as you said, at the end of the day rather than being constructive or actually helping with resolving racial differences, it would appear to divide us further. It doesn't seem to be accomplishing anything positive.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
a reply to: Metallicus

While I don't condone or agree with the sentiment, and I do agree with your suggestions that this doesn't do society any real favors or move people on, you reek of white privilege in your dismissal of this as being "unfair".

Why is it always white people complaining how black people are complaining, or that it's "unfair" that they don't get to be racist these days?

Oh yeah, that's right, white privileged

You not only get to live your life as a white American male with absolutely no bigotry holding you back, you also get to tell other people to stop complaining when it happens to them, as if you have a clue!

THere is White privilege, and racism, and institutionalized racism.

However, it is not "privilege" to have a problem with problematic statements in reverse. Historic racism does not by any means make hateful statements about whites magically right. And I say that as a full on social justice advocate and ally.

If we are really against any kind of hate, stereotypes, etc, then it must be called out when ANYBODY does it.

a reply to: Indigo5 In an earlier post, I said that the gangsta' cRap 'culture' is toxic to black youth. their way out of their situation without any skillset is through drugs. It is easy, it is immediate, and many have no other choice.
I see two complimentary ways to drive this forward. The first is to remove profit from the drug trade. No money = no drug turf wars=no money for guns. No guns = no slaughter of youth. This also removes petty crimes by tweekers needing a fix. The money saved on prisons and wasted lives more than covers all costs. I have proposed this in the past but it did not go over well. Maybe I should make a thread on it with all the details.
The second pathway is a change in the education system for all. Days are longer, starting with breakfast for those on welfare. The school year is longer. There is no homework so that students are not targeted for carrying books by the least common denominators. Uniforms are required. The three R's are stressed until the student is competent. No one can avoid science and math in high school. Art and music are as important as other courses. There are no school sports, other than intramural, for those who are not up to district-wide standard exams so coaches cannot pressure teachers for a passing grade for the All Star running back.
Students are provided role models of successful professionals and tradesmen [not everyone is cut out to be a surgeon or banker; someone has to do the hard jobs] that they can identify with. All races, all ethnicities, and as many from each profession and trade as can be mustered. Our youth need to see success. Being smart and hardworking is not being "too white."
This is too complicated for a single post, also, but you get the idea. Everyone on their feet. Workers win, loafers lose. All are responsible for their own actions. No exceptions, no whining.