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See ya Scotland, now please go before influencing our EU referendum for the UK

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posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:10 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman
But be careful what you wish for.
Always careful, always reasoned.
The Scots have voted overwhelmingly for a party which wants independence from the UK and integration with the EU.
I want them to achieve their wishes before we have a vote on the EU because I see no place for a nation to have a vote on the future of the UK if they have no intention to be part of it.
Why so many posters have cried and whinged about such an opinion I have no idea, but the sooner those folk who want to leave the UK get their opportunity to do so quickly the better in my opinion.

It will be better for the Scots in any case, as their 56 MP's in Westminster can do nothing in a Unionist controlled majority government except whinge for another 5 years. Do one quickly I say, or shed tears when the Barnett formula is forced into the 21st Century and your Scottish MP's lose the right to vote on English only matters.

...oh for those uneducated politically, Scotland has devolved powers such as health and education and English MP's have no vote over such Scottish matters. Scottish MP's on the other hand can vote on English only issues, and do, to the detriment of English citizens.
That is a scandal, and I still wait for someone to justify that to me.




posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand




I see no place for a nation to have a vote on the future of the UK if they have no intention to be part of it.


Why do I sense an overwhelming feeling of bitterness in your posts?

is it just me? You seem a bit angry about it...and would like to see Scotland suffer for their choice.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:33 PM
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originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: grainofsand




I see no place for a nation to have a vote on the future of the UK if they have no intention to be part of it.


Why do I sense an overwhelming feeling of bitterness in your posts?

is it just me? You seem a bit angry about it...and would like to see Scotland suffer for their choice.
Oh please, you are as bad as the other emotional posters in this thread so far, judge me on my words and stop with the assumed added value yeah.



I see no place for a nation to have a vote on the future of the UK if they have no intention to be part of it.

How on earth can you see bitterness in that comment which you chose to quote yourself? Is that all you got? No actual political debate just crying and bleating that you feel I am bitter about something because I don't want people who want independence from my country to have a say in the future of my country?

Got any real arguments/discussion points? Or just lame assertions about how I may or may not feel?
Please explain to me why it is wrong for me to wish for the Scots to leave the UK before we have the referendum on the UK's membership of the EU? I'm all ears.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:39 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

well...you seem pretty agitated...that's all.

You have a semi point about your OP...but they still havent seceded...so....



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Again, stop with the lame and inaccurate assertions about my emotional state please.
If you have a political argument to make about any particular points I've made then please do, but "you seem pretty agitated" is not a political comment, and more of a strawman argument as far as I see it.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

I just did...but you are way to emotional to spot it.

You are also not using all your grey cells on this subject.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:48 PM
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Though if Scotland left the UK, they would need to reapply to join the EU which would take years and reported to be looked upon unfavourably by the other members, whose vote they would need.



The Scots have voted overwhelmingly for a party which wants independence from the UK and integration with the EU



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Have you got any political points to make about the OP or just inaccurate observations about my character and/or emotional state?



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: theabsolutetruth

True, but I live in England so it is up to the Scots to do whatever they wish, just stop dragging it out so they have influence over the EU membership vote for a UK they don't even want to be part of.
Right now all we can look forward to is 5 years of the SNP trolling in Parliament while they are unable to influence any vote due to the clear Unionist government in power.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:00 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Have you got any political points to make about the OP or just inaccurate observations about my character and/or emotional state?






..but they still havent seceded...so....


in case you still miss the point....Scotland voted on staying in the UK. Your OP assumes...what the results of your last election mean in terms of possible Scotland's secession, even though the vote was about new government. You also falsely assume that majority of voters even know what/who exactly are they voting for. Let me ease your mind...they usually dont.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

What on Earth do you know about the voting choices of people in Scotland?
They voted overwhelmingly for a party which has it's primary focus on independence from the UK.
A party which today is now saying it is a step closer to independence on MSM.

If that is the wish of the Scottish people then I want them to go quickly, sooner rather than later.
What problem could you have with that, and what exactly is the point you are trying to make in this thread?



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:07 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

Hopefully Cameron will have the gumption to set in place English votes for England, scrapping the Barnett formula and putting Sturgeon in her place, perhaps giving Scotland the opportunity to pay for everything from it's own taxes instead of relying on the rest of the UK and causing economic havoc from their referendums, the Scottish people already voted against independence. Any further votes should be from all of the UK.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: theabsolutetruth

He's already stated a commitment for English only MP votes on English only issues, and the rumours are that the grossly unfair Barnett formula will be reformed.
There is nothing the SNP can do about it as the Unionist Tories have a majority government so I see a swift referendum on Scottish independence once the SNP realises it is toothless in Westminster.
Good, sooner rather than later as far as I'm concerned.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand




What on Earth do you know about the voting choices of people in Scotland?


Only what I read man.

Sorry for polluting your thread with disagreements.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

Aah the West Lothian question...yes.

It seems that for a long time villages spread into towns and then cities and eventually nation states. But, in this globally interconnected world, we can no longer handle it all and have a longing to revert back to smaller and divided units once again. But it's not that simple any more.

The problems I foresee at the moment are that the SNP will still be able to make their excuses if things go t*** up in Scotland by blaming it all on a Tory controlled, remote Westminster. If things improve they will take all the credit. In some ways this is what the SNP covet. Because it's a heads you win tails you lose situation for them in their bid for independence. Whilst they remain part of Britain they can always pass the buck and blame any failure on the English Tories. So the Scots will eventually drive for and get their independence.

The rest of the UK will expect Scotland to take on all of the cost for the division they voted for. Scotland will finally stand very much alone for a while. And if things are not going well the rest of the UK will quite happily let them lie in the bed they made for themselves. There will be no bailouts or assistance from the south for any failures of north of the border. The same of course would apply the other way round.

It's not that Scotland doesn't have the people and resources to make a go of it themselves but perhaps the right people are not in the right place at the right time. The smaller you are as a nation the more vulnerable you are to the peaks and troughs in the world economy and the influence of big business and globalisation. There will be a resounding impact on the rest of the UK as well.

Any immediate economic problems after a leaving the union will not be treated sympathetically by the rest of the UK and it will create a division and a bitterness amongst our people that will take a generation or more to heal. Not good for any of us. Scotland will effectively become a minor European nation, a bit part of NATO and totally insignificant on a global scale. Subject to the whims and rules of an EU (subject to membership acceptance) it will no longer have the influence as part of the much larger UK. It will also diminish the role and influence of the remainder of the United Kingdom.

You can mirror a lot of those problems of Scotland leaving the UK with the UK leaving Europe. The more division there is the weaker you eventually make yourself.

Of course if times are good then nobody pays too much attention. But times never stay good forever.

So be careful what you all wish for.




edit on 9/5/15 by mirageman because: typo



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

"See ya Scotland, now please go before influencing our EU referendum for the UK"

Done and done!



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Disagree as much as you like, that is what debate is all about, but don't come into a thread initially just focusing on whatever you think my emotional state is and using that solely as some point of discussion.
I want the Scots who wish to leave the UK to leave as quickly as possible and not have any say in the future of the UK in the EU. That is a sensible and reasoned position to hold.
If you have a reasoned position to argue about any of my comments here then I am happy to engage with you, but if you have only comments about how you perceive my emotional state then # off elsewhere because that is not mature political debate.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 06:59 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

You are talking sense, which has seemed all too rare when talking of SNP and EU.

It certainly appears that SNP are fogging it up for the Scottish people for their own deluded agenda of scarcely disguised hatred and misplaced blame, lest the people realise they are the pied pipers leading them on the path to ruin for the sake of mild destruction for England on the way.

They are riding a wave of support based on flimsy, misplaced sentiment. Castles built on sand.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 07:03 PM
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a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I missed the post you replied to but agree with your comments so I shall leave it at that.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 07:07 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand


Not sure how you missed it in your own thread it's only two post above?

You can click this link to view it all

www.abovetopsecret.com...



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