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See ya Scotland, now please go before influencing our EU referendum for the UK

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posted on May, 13 2015 @ 07:38 PM
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originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: stumason



I've no doubt that Scotland could make it on it's own, but the rabid hyperbole from both sides is just patent BS.


No doubt and that wasn't my point, rather I was countering the assertion that without Scotland, somehow England would be unable to cope.




posted on May, 13 2015 @ 07:41 PM
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originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: stumason



I've no doubt that Scotland could make it on it's own, but the rabid hyperbole from both sides is just patent BS.


No doubt and that wasn't my point, rather I was countering the assertion that without Scotland, somehow England would be unable to cope.

Then why did The establishment call on every means within her power to keep us if we are such a drain on England's finances....why the
Love Bombs and the better together BS???

edit on 13-5-2015 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 07:48 PM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: stumason


originally posted by: skalla

a reply to: stumason







I've no doubt that Scotland could make it on it's own, but the rabid hyperbole from both sides is just patent BS.




No doubt and that wasn't my point, rather I was countering the assertion that without Scotland, somehow England would be unable to cope.


Then why did The establishment call on every means within her power to keep us if we are such a drain on England's finances....why the

Love Bombs and the better together BS???



And where in my statement did I say Scotland "was a drain on the finances"?

I didn't, Solo.

But, I can't say I am surprised, you do this all the time. Either quote out of context to try and make some asinine point, or totally misread what was said to, again, make some ludicrous point.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 11:29 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Unfortunately, that seems to be the de facto response from the brownshirts.

Having lived abroad I cannot understand why a country would seek to make itself even smaller.

My attitude changed when I saw Scotland from the outside - I found its general entitlement culture, whining and blaming everyone except themselves for any given situation, and lack of ambition scary. To any Brownshirt who says that increasing public spending is a sign of ambition, I can't respond as it's just going to end up in a circular argument.

Moving back to Scotland was the worst mistake I made. To those who have asked the question around would any of those who have emigrated come back after independence..I would say it would be low.

Now, the fall back position for the brown shirts is to tell me to move. Actually, I have invested so much in Scotland...I can't.

My partner and I have a business here, we have a family. We have a home.

But this rampant nationalist braying and the deliberate baiting of the rest of the UK is making me a stranger in that home.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 02:44 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn
I would say the split if yes/no voters in my family/friends roughly follows the referendum result yet none if us have fallen out. I don't know anyone who has. I am sure there are a few but if your friend severed your friendship over the referendum that says more about his qualities as a friend than anything else and you are better off without him.
As to the representation issue we have had similar numbers before with labour and no one saw it as a major issue then. FTP is a stupid system but lets remember it is the SNP not labour who want to change it.
Finally with regard sectarianism my view is that the reason Scotland is often seen as less racist than England isn't that we are better, just that our bigots are too busy being sectarian to be properly racist.
As I have said before there are idiots everywhere.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 03:09 AM
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a reply to: skalla

I moved from Scotland before 21, I have lived in England longer than Scotland. I considered moving back a few years ago to do a Masters degree or other postgrad study, until SNP appeared spouting it's small minded, delusional socialist agenda and it reminded me of all the things I hated about Scotland in the first place. I wondered if it had grown up, perhaps got more intelligent, but in fact the opposite. Then I heard of all the harassment of English people there that felt the need to relocate to somewhere more civilized. I am not considering moving there now and it has also tainted the idea of visiting.

Socialism, labour mentality and SNP have irrevocably damaged the reputation of Scotland which has impacted on its economic ability, cultural affability, investment potential and tourist industries. The population and economy there is declining because of a ruinous economic policy that concentrated on 'new towns' which is a known failed strategy and resulted in economic decline of the greater Glasgow area which impacts all of Scotland. Due to it's population size and Geography, Scotland could be seen as a 'county' where Glasgow represents it's metropolitan economic area, and if that is defunct then so is the rest. Introspective Nationalist Socialist agendas are not favourable environments in a global capitalist world. There is also the Barnett formula 'squeeze' which alludes to bringing Scotland in line with the rest of the UK in terms of funding, due to population decline it means even less money to Scotland, which is cited as a factor of economic decline, clearly Scotland is dependent on it.

Scotland basically needs policy review regarding their economic structure, financial investment from elsewhere than the UK, and inwards migration. These are dependent on its 'attraction' factor to investors. It's international reputation as an aggressive, violent, hate filled, Nationalist Socialist nation, that blames England for it's issues, is exactly the the opposite of that which Scotland needs. Scotland is culturally, economically and politically unattractive. Hence it's trends are heading towards that of a doomed nation and without bolstering from the rest of the UK would be in a worse condition than it already is and it only has itself to blame.

Some research from Strathclyde University, that is worth reading for actual factual analysis of Scotland's economy. It appears doubtful that SNP even considers valid research, instead using rhetoric from Braveheart on which they based their bunk manifesto.

strathprints.strath.ac.uk...


Abstract
The population of Scotland is declining, both absolutely and relatively to the rest of the UK. Decline in the Scottish population relative to the rest of the UK is not new. In fact it has been continuous at least since 1851. But a prolonged period of absolute decline such as we are currently seeing is new; the only significant previous decline was by a rather small 40,000 in the 1920s. Since 1974 there has been a fall of about 100,000 and the decline is now projected to extend into the foreseeable future, accelerating after 2020.

Item type: Article
Keywords: population statistics, population decline, population dynamics, Scottish economy, Economic History and Conditions, Economics, Econometrics and Finance(all)
Subjects: Social Sciences > Economic History and Conditions
Department: Strathclyde Business School > Economics
Strathclyde Business School > Fraser of Allander Institute
Depositing user: Pure Administrator
Date Deposited: 13 Mar 2015 12:01
Last modified: 15 Apr 2015 10:14







edit on 14-5-2015 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 03:32 AM
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a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I broadly agree with you, though i don't have time to look into your link/info more until later. When i was about to move north myself i was preparing for prejudice etc but have a bullish attitude to that kind of stuff and it was only a new relationship and some new study options that changed things at very short notice.

From my own POV, i think that if the Yes camp had stopped rambling on about how good things could have been and the whole land of milk and honey crap and instead focussed on telling folk how things would have been a massive and difficult change and that collective hard work, astute planning and attracting investment could help them build the nation towards prosperity.. then things could have been very different, especially with some injections of industrious migrants from "the Scottish Diaspora" and elsewhere.

But small mindedness lost the day (unfortunately IMO).



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 03:36 AM
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a reply to: theabsolutetruth
You could have saved yourself a lot of typing by just going "I'm a tory" fair enough you want right wing policies then living outwith Scotland is probably best. However trying to criticise the SNP by linking to a paper on population decline is probably not a smart idea when they are the only major party that is pro-immigration.
The rest of your post just comes across as a bitter rant. You really think that is how the world views Scotland? You might need to broaden your social circle.


edit on 14-5-2015 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-5-2015 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 03:40 AM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol

Thing is though you talk very eloquently on some issues of race, nationality and politics and i can't help but admire and agree with the points that you make, and then you start twitching a bit and suddenly you are more blind and spiteful than any of the regular-ish folk here at ATS or elsewhere who could be described as the worst of UKIP's supporters or ignorant 'muricans.

It's always possible for the hateful to find justifications for their nasty stances, and blind nationalism is the refuge of totalitarians.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 03:46 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

The paper show the link between the economy and population decline and the factors causing it.

Immigration as the paper shows from asylum seekers etc is negligible.

Salmon was spouting yesterday about taking immigrants, Scotland is welcome to Blair's legacy of immigration in England, I suggest a fast lane train to send them all there, straight to Salmond's house. He would soon find that they are a drain on resources and would hastily be renegotiating all those free prescriptions, elderly care and University educations.


edit on 14-5-2015 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 04:06 AM
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originally posted by: paraphi
To the OP. You assume people in England, Wales and NI want to leave the EU.

With a half decent public debate, I think you may find that this assumption is misplaced, even with some renegotiation.

The EU in or out


With all due respect the poll was from "YouGov" and they failed miserably in the election polls along with all other pollsters, so I would take that poll with a pinch of salt.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 04:45 AM
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a reply to: theabsolutetruth
So your argument is that independence would be bad because we have had years of economic and population decline as part of the union? Why am I not surprised you are Anti-immigration. As I said if you want right wing government then England certainly looks to be heading more and more that way. I am happy with the more progressive direction of politics up here.


edit on 14-5-2015 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 04:52 AM
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a reply to: flammadraco
Strangely up here no one belived the polls and they where pretty damn accurate. UK wide people did believe and they seem to have missed by miles. As a genuine question has anyone read any good analysis of why the polls git it wrong, everything I have seen is just opinion pieces.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 04:52 AM
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I think those voting SNP would benefit from some time living in england, wales, spain, france...USA...anywhere except scotland...it would help give them perspective and potentially understand that it's not all just a conspiracy designed to keep them down...

I think independence will happen and that scares the absolute hell out of me. I feel it is now a trend I am being dragged along with - even though I do not agree with it. My experience of the SNP is that supporters have almost a crusade style mentality, they've made a righteous cause rather than a true political movement.

The age demographic of those who have been voted in as MPs worries me. This says to me that the SNP leadership are investing time in those who are easier to control and will help them to keep the party line.

You vote for what you feel best represents you, I suppose. Meet Mhairi Black - an indoctrinated, Nationalist robot...who at 20 years old is expected to carry the hopes, dreams and ambitions of her constituency....

Yet - thinks it's okay to talk about "stickin the heid" on opponents.

If our country thinks that she is an acceptable politician then that entirely saddens me.

Here's one person who cant see her in any international relations role (stick the heid on Obama, ya bas!), yet effectively she is.

The SNP make us all look foolish as they can only look inward and peer over the border with resentment and hatred.

I wonder what will happen 5 years after independence when the brownshirts realise that the pot of gold they were promised at the end of the yellow rainbow is actually a crock of worthless sh*t.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 05:03 AM
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a reply to: selfharmonise
Amazing that you personally know every SNP voter and their history....
Huge numbers of SNP voters and members come from outside Scotland. Even amazingly from England. How can that be when they are so clearly an anti English party.....
One explanation is of course that you are talking utter drivel, I feel your continual references to brown shirts backs up this explanation.
The SNP are a progressive slightly left of centre social democratic party. They are mainly pro European and pro immigration. How on earth you equate that with being inward looking is beyond understanding.


edit on 14-5-2015 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 05:23 AM
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originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: ScepticScot

The paper show the link between the economy and population decline and the factors causing it.

Immigration as the paper shows from asylum seekers etc is negligible.

Salmon was spouting yesterday about taking immigrants, Scotland is welcome to Blair's legacy of immigration in England, I suggest a fast lane train to send them all there, straight to Salmond's house. He would soon find that they are a drain on resources and would hastily be renegotiating all those free prescriptions, elderly care and University educations.




LOL!! LOL!!

I know a few Scots here in England, indeed one is the father to

one of my grandchildren!

So I am quite tired of hearing 'how great Scotland is'... all the

advantages... free perscriptions, no tuition fees, elderly care, etc...

Their blatantly nationalistic attitude.


And yet it seems they prefer to live in England?.....strange ?


With their attitude.... and nationalistic views I am amazed that they

wish to, and do continue to live here in England.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 05:30 AM
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a reply to: eletheia
Yes because all Scots are exactly the same and want the same things in life....... ...
Also if you want free prescriptions and further education then vote for a party that gives them. Otherwise get over it.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 05:43 AM
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originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: ScepticScot

The paper show the link between the economy and population decline and the factors causing it.

Immigration as the paper shows from asylum seekers etc is negligible.

Salmon was spouting yesterday about taking immigrants, Scotland is welcome to Blair's legacy of immigration in England, I suggest a fast lane train to send them all there, straight to Salmond's house. He would soon find that they are a drain on resources and would hastily be renegotiating all those free prescriptions, elderly care and University educations.




LOL!! LOL!!

I know a few Scots here in England, indeed one is the father to

one of my grandchildren!

So I am quite tired of hearing 'how great Scotland is'... all the

advantages... free perscriptions, no tuition fees, elderly care, etc...

Their blatantly nationalistic attitude.


And yet it seems they prefer to live in England?.....strange ?


With their attitude.... and nationalistic views I am amazed that they

wish to, and do continue to live here in England.

You might need to take a seat, wouldn't want you to injure yourself when your knees buckle at this news...We built a brand new Hospital..Just opened last week. State of the art stuff.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 06:19 AM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol




You might need to take a seat, wouldn't want you to injure yourself when your knees buckle at this news...We built a brand new Hospital..Just opened last week. State of the art stuff.



EXACTLY my point !!!

With it all that going on up there in Scotland ... WHY oh WHY

are they all still languishing here in England ? and some of them

on *benefits* to boot... surely they would be scurrying back to the

land of 'milk and honey' which is Scotland? LOL!!


Seemingly they prefer to 'slum' it here!!



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 07:17 AM
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a reply to: eletheia



WHY oh WHY are they all still languishing here in England ?


Because they have every right to do so!

It remains a UNION and as long as it does so then that fact will never alter.

It seems that some people are missing the point(s).

Scotland voted to remain in the Union.
All the major parties promised Scotland the earth during that campaign - rightly or wrongly is irrelevant.
All the major parties failed to deliver on any of those promises.
The huge swing to SNP at the election was more of a protest against the disdain and disregard shown to the Scottish people by all the major parties and not a vote for independence per se.

I can't say I blame the Scots for that.

Now the Scots want what is best for Scotland, exactly the same as I want what is best for North East England.
I am also passionately pro-Union - possibly for different reasons than most but that's not really the point here.
I see no conflict in any of that....and neither should the Scots.

And let's face it - London and The Home Counties etc always put their interests well before rUK.
Why should other areas of the UK be any different?

But I do see a worrying trend here on ATS.
Many Scots appear to be under the illusion that they fail to recognise that Scotland is just as divided as other parts of the UK.
50% of Scotland voted for parties other than SNP and they have almost zero representation in parliament.
Who is going to speak up for their concerns and interests?
The Northern Isles feel almost as much alienation from the rest of Scotland as they do from Westminster.
And no-one seems to want to discuss the elephant in the room - sectarianism that is still rife throughout the Central Belt of Scotland.

There's been some complete bollocks and nonsense posted in this thread.....it seems the divide and conquer tactics are working very well indeed.

All this bitterness and acrimony achieves nothing except strengthening the divisions amongst us at a time when we should be uniting against the challenges that face us all.




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