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See ya Scotland, now please go before influencing our EU referendum for the UK

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posted on May, 13 2015 @ 04:14 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: nonspecific
The referendum will show results by constituency. Tallying by nation is fairly obvious so no separate referendum required. If the op is right and England votes to leave I don't believe it should automatically have the right to drag the rest of the UK with it.



If I may say so then how is your seperatist view any different to that of the OP?

I do not wish to appear inflamatory but your secular opinion is no diferent to that of the OP.

Please could you explain your issue with the OP in light of your own views and how one is bad and mean and the other is right and correct.

Two members saying the same thing yet one calling another wrong makes no sense to me so a more in depth explanation of your views may be needed to validate your opinion.




posted on May, 13 2015 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

How can the vote of those who wish independence from the UK be justified when it will not affect them in a year or two?
You want your cake and eat it or something?



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: grainofsand
I showed you some posts. Try replacing Scots whinging with Blacks or Gays whinging and see how it reads.

Yep, I can do that easily, nobody likes a whinger.
Stop with your silly and childlike racism comparisons. Quote my offending posts specifically and I shall respond.
You are whinging about nothing. It indicates you have no real political argument.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand
As per my post above if there is a difference in what the nations want for something this important I would say that it decision tine for the whole concept of the UK. Where we seem to disagree here is in the order of events.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 04:20 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific see my reply to grain. We both want Scotland to be independent, we disagree on how that should happen.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: grainofsand
I showed you some posts. Try replacing Scots whinging with Blacks or Gays whinging and see how it reads.

Yep, I can do that easily, nobody likes a whinger.
Stop with your silly and childlike racism comparisons. Quote my offending posts specifically and I shall respond.
You are whinging about nothing. It indicates you have no real political argument.

I did quote, you stated you didn't think they are anti -Scots . I said lets leave it to others to decide (you don't get final call on whether something is offensive or not) . Still you go on about it.
Makes think the whole point of the thread is to antagonise people then call them your favourite word "whingers"



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: nonspecific see my reply to grain. We both want Scotland to be independent, we disagree on how that should happen.

Agreed.
I want Scotland, where 84% of the vote last week was for EU supporting parties, to have their independence referendum before the UK has a referendum on EU membership.
Scotland voted 56 of their 59 MP's for the SNP, the only party campaigning for independence.
That is a reasonable opinion to hold.
I do not want those who wish to leave the UK to have the opportunity to pollute our vote on EU issues which are bigger and more important than Scottish independence.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 04:26 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: nonspecific see my reply to grain. We both want Scotland to be independent, we disagree on how that should happen.



Thank you but I would say that that does not clarify your stance on EU membership.

Do you feel that with a numbers advantage England should have the overall vote or do you think it should be the choice of the seperate nations of the UK?

Your comments could be considered in contradicion so some clarification would make it easier to continue this debate.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 04:27 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: grainofsand
I showed you some posts. Try replacing Scots whinging with Blacks or Gays whinging and see how it reads.

Yep, I can do that easily, nobody likes a whinger.
Stop with your silly and childlike racism comparisons. Quote my offending posts specifically and I shall respond.
You are whinging about nothing. It indicates you have no real political argument.

I did quote, you stated you didn't think they are anti -Scots . I said lets leave it to others to decide (you don't get final call on whether something is offensive or not) . Still you go on about it.
Makes think the whole point of the thread is to antagonise people then call them your favourite word "whingers"
You are certainly one of the whingers I describe.
That does NOT make me anti Scottish.
All of that is your imagination alone, and indicates an overly sensitive disposition.

*Edit*
Do you just want to be a victim or something?
edit on 13.5.2015 by grainofsand because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 04:50 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

I would like to add that I ask this as I find this question interesting and value your opinions on this.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific
Apologies if I was not clear. I will try to explain. In the absence of a constitution that clarifies I believe issues this important require the consent of a majority in all the individual nations of the UK. If there is a difference between what the nation wish the the only solution may be independence referendum(s). To be consistent this must apply to England as much as the smaller nations.



edit on 13-5-2015 by ScepticScot because: bad typing



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand
Seriously you are becoming a caricature now.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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Crashing out now (Zzz Zzz) so if you have any reasoned political comment to make please do, but if you only have bleating that people are being mean to Scots then either quote it and present your argument, or expect to be ignored because any thread I start is not intended to be a platform for child like emotional whinging.
ATS is about debate, not inventing things to bleat about lol



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: nonspecific
Apologies if I was not clear. I will try to explain. In the absence of a constitution that clarifies I believe issues this important require the consent of a majority in all the individual nations of the UK. If there is a difference between what the nation wish the the only solution may be independence referendum(s). To be consistent this must apply to England as much as the smaller nations.




I thank you for your answer and the clarification.

From a personal point of view if I may.

Do you wish to remain a member of the EU as an individual?

If the decision went the other way would you accept the decision and how would you feel if the overall decision came from a different nation?



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific
A good point. As n individual I think the EU is more good than bad despite some serious misgivings about certain things.
I think the decision level for such things has to be the nation. I also think Scotland, England, wales and N.Ireland are nations but not currently states.
If a majority of Scots voted to leave I would be disappointed but accept the result. If we were being forced to leave because of how the vote went in another country then I think that would be cause to go our own way.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: nonspecific
A good point. As n individual I think the EU is more good than bad despite some serious misgivings about certain things.
I think the decision level for such things has to be the nation. I also think Scotland, England, wales and N.Ireland are nations but not currently states.
If a majority of Scots voted to leave I would be disappointed but accept the result. If we were being forced to leave because of how the vote went in another country then I think that would be cause to go our own way.



A fair answer.

If I could refer you to the OP and take another look aat what what would said would you not say that the opinion is similar?



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 05:26 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific
We had an Indy ref a few months back. The cite (unfortunately) was to stay. A general election is not a referendum. There are a lot of reasons for voting for a political party and independence was not an issue in this election.
The op suggests that Scotland should leave on the basis of the election result prior to a referendum so as not to pollute the overall result. I default on the side of democracy and have a referendum first.
The op also seems to me to ignore the potential wishes of the other two nations.
As I said earlier it is about the order of things.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 05:37 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: nonspecific
We had an Indy ref a few months back. The cite (unfortunately) was to stay. A general election is not a referendum. There are a lot of reasons for voting for a political party and independence was not an issue in this election.
The op suggests that Scotland should leave on the basis of the election result prior to a referendum so as not to pollute the overall result. I default on the side of democracy and have a referendum first.
The op also seems to me to ignore the potential wishes of the other two nations.
As I said earlier it is about the order of things.


Again as to the order of things. In my opinion the OP simply said that with such seperation between the English and the Scotish that any choice on the EU status of the UK should not involve Scotland if they intend to leave anyway.

Frrom what can be seen there is definate animosity between these members of a so called United Kingdom.

It is interesting that the question of EU membership can be called when we can not even agree on a united kingdom.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific
I haven't seen any recent polling but I believe wales and n.ireland would most likely vote to stay in as well. If that was the case is the only democratic solution not to give England a referendum on leaving the UK. The rUK then stays united (unless further referendums occur) and stays in Europe.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 05:59 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: nonspecific
I haven't seen any recent polling but I believe wales and n.ireland would most likely vote to stay in as well. If that was the case is the only democratic solution not to give England a referendum on leaving the UK. The rUK then stays united (unless further referendums occur) and stays in Europe.



I was under the assumption that it was to be a UK referendum on EU membership?

As said earler anything else stated would suggest a broken UK and if so the OP has a right to state an opinion.




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