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Murder charges against Freddie Gray cops may be DROPPED

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posted on May, 8 2015 @ 06:33 PM
a reply to: FraggleRock

Oh em gee stop with the victim card.

When somebody makes a suggestion or advances an idea, it's perfectly normal to respond with "okay, how?" All the more so when it's a great idea, yet the road to the end result isn't terribly clear.

I'm sorry you were asked "okay, how?" in response to your idea, suggestion, proposition, whatever you care to call it. Clearly it was a bridge too far.

posted on May, 8 2015 @ 08:25 PM
a reply to: Shamrock6

I was asked and I answered. You chose to disregard my answer. You proceeded to mock and then lied, claiming I never even made a suggestion. The "how" was a bridge you were never interested in crossing.

posted on May, 8 2015 @ 08:33 PM
a reply to: dashen

The DA went for years without a complaint about the police department. The defendants are charging bias.

The lead investigator is a former wannabe cop who got handed his ass by the department, so conflict of interest.

It's dirty, as usual. What is needed are a special prosecutor and a special investigator, both from out of the area.

posted on May, 8 2015 @ 09:06 PM

originally posted by: dashen

double gasp!

Either the police unions are really that untouchable, or they want a riot.
Manslaughter is the worst charge they will attempt to stick to these fine gentlemen.

Did the prosecutor botch the charges to give these guys a free pass?

At this point sometimes resisting arrest and taking your chances is getting to be safer than letting yourself get taken into custody.

So i guess police can just go on killing and stompin whomever they please with no repercussions .
My tax dollars hard at work.

The murder charges filed against the Baltimore officers who arrested Freddie Gray could be dropped, because the police investigation into his death doesn't support the prosecution's case, it's been reported.
Last Friday, Baltimore City State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby levelled charges ranging from assault to second-degree murder at six police officers involved in Gray's death. He had suffered a fatal spinal injury while in police custody.
However, officials familiar with the case have revealed that police investigators do not agree with the charges.
The murder charges filed against the Baltimore officers who arrested Freddie Gray could be dropped

What's more, defense lawyers are mounting a challenge to Mosby's assertion that the officers had unlawfully arrested Gray because the knife he had in his pocket is considered legal under Maryland state law.

OP I have this for you.

“I send it against a godless nation and commission it against the people of My Fury to capture booty and to seize plunder, And to trample them down like mud in the streets.” Isaiah 10:6 (NASB)”

posted on May, 9 2015 @ 09:09 AM
a reply to: Vasa Croe

This case is too big for pressure to change their minds. That would come out in a heartbeat.

You mean like how he died? The same people that are investigating are also keeping that quiet.

Your point is null.

How far the van drove, what stops it made and a "broken neck" don't tell us anything.

posted on May, 9 2015 @ 09:15 AM
a reply to: Vasa Croe

It is more likely that they jumped the gun with the charges to soothe the public.

Isn;t that what you are doing too, "jumping the gun"?

Live body goes in van, dead one comes out… case closed?

Your investigative skills are likely jumping to conclusions as well.

posted on May, 9 2015 @ 10:37 AM
a reply to: FraggleRock

Now that you've reached into fantasyland and started making things up and getting into the name calling (I double checked, my pants aren't on fire) we're done here.

It's a shame you have no concept how to pull off your idea. Would be an interesting discussion.


posted on May, 9 2015 @ 10:54 AM
a reply to: dashen

Either the police unions are really that untouchable, or they want a riot.


This really should not come as a shock to anyone. The big buildup to the big letdown, the ensuing calamity that will result, the people will be screaming for the federal government to police the police; I suspect it's going precisely as they planned for it to. I'd still love to be wrong, but I don't think so.

posted on May, 9 2015 @ 11:41 AM
a reply to: Greathouse

Your CNN source said they have to prove intent for a 2nd° murder charge. That is completely untrue under Maryland law. For depraved heart murder all that needs to be proven is indifference for human life.

Well...not exactly. This is why I stated on another thread recently that people don't have a clear understanding of what "depraved heart" murder really entails. The word "intent" should not have been used, because that indicates premeditation. You're right, they don't have to prove intent. But they do have to prove "malice aforethought"; that the cop knew his actions could and most likely would cause this man's death, but did it anyway.

If that cannot be proven (and it cannot so far in this case), then it amounts to nothing more than gross negligence, which is not enough to get a murder conviction under Maryland state law. "Indifference for human life" is not what Depraved Heart/Depraved Mind murder means, even though I think Wiki uses that's a very misleading term that implies something very different from the actual meaning. It should be "that you are pretty damn certain your actions will result in ending someone's life, and showing complete indifference to that very probable outcome". This guy explains it a lot more clearly in layman's terms:

There are several legal terms used to describe “depraved heart” murder – “wanton indifference” and “reckless endangerment” are the most common. I think the easiest way to understand “depraved heart’ murder is to think of it like this – a person does something that creates a serious risk of killing someone else, but the person couldn’t care less about the consequences of his actions.

A second degree murder charge does not require the state to prove that a person specifically intended to kill someone else, but the state must show more than negligence. Even gross negligence is not enough to support a second degree murder charge. If the evidence shows only gross negligence, then the appropriate charge would be manslaughter.

Proving a second degree murder charge in the death of Freddie Gray is going to be more difficult than proving manslaughter. An officer may be convicted of manslaughter even if what happened to Freddie Gray was an accident. All the prosecutor has to show is that the officer was so sloppy and incompetent that he was grossly negligent. To convict an officer of second degree murder will require more. The prosecutor must show that the officer was aware that there was a substantial risk that Freddie Gray may die, either from injury caused by the officer or from the officer’s failure to address Gray’s medical condition, and the officer deliberately ignored that risk.

Deliberately ignoring the risk that someone may die because of what you are doing is what we mean by a “depraved heart.” In this case, it means the officer knew that Freddie Gray was seriously hurt and needed help, but the officer just didn’t care. If the officer had that attitude, then he is just as blameworthy under Maryland law as if he had a specific intent to kill Mr. Gray.

Depraved Heart Murder

edit on 314311America/ChicagoSat, 09 May 2015 11:43:25 -050031am31128America/Chicago by tigertatzen because: fix error

posted on May, 9 2015 @ 11:49 AM
a reply to: dashen

WHy is it that every time a black man gets killed, there's a riot?

Can people not be more civilized? How can they expect their voices to be heard in such a fashion?

posted on May, 9 2015 @ 12:17 PM
a reply to: tigertatzen

Yeah I've explained this about 10 different times on 10 different threads so far. It's gotten so bothersome I just started posting the wiki definition when someone wants to debate the issue.

In United States law, depraved-heart murder, also known as depraved-indifference murder, is an action where a defendant acts with a "depraved indifference" to human life and where such act results in a death. In a depraved-heart murder a defendant commits an act even though they know their act runs an unusually high risk of causing death or serious bodily harm to someone else. If the risk of death or bodily harm is great enough, ignoring it demonstrates a "depraved indifference" to human life and the resulting death is considered to have been committed with malice aforethought.[1][2] In most states, depraved-heart killings constitute second-degree murder.[3]

One of the things that bothers me when cases like this are tried in the media. Is everyone listens to the media reports regardless of how the actual laws read.

posted on May, 9 2015 @ 12:25 PM
a reply to: ketsuko

I think you are confused as to just exactly what a murder charge means. They have to be able to prove intent. It means that they have to prove that those cops, all 6, intended to kill Grey from the get-go.

No. That's 1st degree murder. Calculated murder. 2nd degree murder, on the other hand, only requires proof of the intent to harm an individual, knowing that it could lead to death. Since "nickle rides" HAVE left people dead, I don't think it's really that much of a stretch to prove.

Second Degree Murder: Definition. Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as: 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion"; or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life.

ETA: I see that a couple of poster above me have also addressed the issue of intent!

edit on 9-5-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 9 2015 @ 12:27 PM
a reply to: Greathouse

There have been deaths on previous "nickle rides" and definitely injuries.

posted on May, 9 2015 @ 01:05 PM
a reply to: vonclod

Yep I express that opinion very early in this incident. I also think I have the most plausible theory on how the injuries occurred.

At the first stop on Baker Street. Freddie gray was handcuffed and shackled and placed stomach down on the metal floor Face first into the van. Between there and the unscheduled stop the driver slammed the brakes on. Then Freddie slid forward headfirst into the partition between the front and back of the van. I even went further out on the limb and claimed that the medical examiners report is going to show compression fractures to the vertebrae/larynx in his neck.

That theory delivers both cause and event backed by a medical report. The only thing missing is motive which was partially handled with the depraved heart stipulation.

posted on May, 9 2015 @ 02:49 PM
a reply to: Greathouse

Yeah I've explained this about 10 different times on 10 different threads so far. It's gotten so bothersome I just started posting the wiki definition when someone wants to debate the issue.

Completely understandable...I actually went searching for a "dumbed down" explanation (that is by no means an implied insult to anyone, just to be perfectly clear, people!) and happily, found that guy's article. Spent a long time yesterday trying to get through to a colleague who insisted "murder is murder, dammit!" it isn't always, under the law. Just as people frequently equate the law with justice, which is also sadly incorrect.

posted on May, 9 2015 @ 03:38 PM
a reply to: Shamrock6

Making things up hmm. Just one page back in this thread:

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Never said you did bub. You've been asked repeatedly "who should do it?" and can't even suggest anything or anybody.

So it appears it's just as I said and notice the name calling, "bub". You lied about me never making a suggestion even though I absolutely did:

originally posted by: FraggleRock

Groups of individuals with education in criminal justice who are independent of the police department SHOULD be involved when an investigation involves police. There are no specific names.

Which as I've repeated several times you mocked:

originally posted by: Shamrock6
God, railgun! It's people who have a background and education in criminal justice, maybe even a degree in it. And study case law. And study policies and procedures. But are removed enough from the system that nobody could possibly ever think they might be tainted.


So please, "Oh em gee stop with the victim card". You've shown zero interest in having any interesting or otherwise discussion with me.

posted on May, 9 2015 @ 03:41 PM
a reply to: combatmaster

That's what George said about the Boston Tea Party.

I'm still trying to figure out why white people riot over silly sports teams.

posted on May, 10 2015 @ 11:31 AM
a reply to: FraggleRock

My god. You're still going? Are you one of those people that has to have the last word so you can claim "victory" or something?

Yes. You suggested an idea. Which I acknowledged. And then no ideas at to how to achieve. Terrific. As I said, if wishes were fishes and such.

I've shown zero interest in discussing anything because you have nothing to discuss. "Wouldn't world peace be great?" would get the exact same response. Great idea, how's that going to happen? Oh, you have literally zero input beyond waxing prophetic about it? Gee, that's so helpful and all. Let's sit around and talk about how great it would be instead of having any sort of discussion about how to achieve it.

That whole new age idiom "just envision your goals" is great and all, until you realize you have zero concept of how to achieve what you envision.

Not that any of that matters. I'm sure the only response will be more victimization. You may proceed with the last word having now.

posted on May, 10 2015 @ 01:17 PM
a reply to: Shamrock6

So I respond and I'm "looking for the last word" or some sort of "victory" and yet you keep responding and what, that's different? Cool story bro.

If you are so uninterested in having any discussion then just go away. You aren't required to inject your sarcastic responses and insulting remarks.

My original opinion was that having a police investigation conclude that charges against police aren't supported, isn't surprising.

My simple suggestion was that the police departments shouldn't be in charge of investigating when their own officers are involved. That people with education and understanding of the criminal justice system should be involved.

Maybe private investigators could be involved. Or refer all such cases to the FBI. Maybe we create a new agency who's sole function is to investigate law enforcement. If you wish to add to that or make a counter suggestion then by all means. If not, move on.

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