Symbology in Freemasonry

I can find loads of posts on this forum regarding symbols, signs etc but none seem to have been finished, most ending with a few just trading insults, or the decents parts are over a number of different threads and few and far between.

If the moderators would permit this subject to be re-opened, but close if it does turn to mere mud slinging I would be appreciative.

Symbols are used every where, and with different meanings. Certain symbols are generally assumed with particular fractions and so.

Being involved with Freemasonry I am often invovled with the Washington layout, dollar bill etc, which has been covered before and I do not wish to dwell on the subject, but what I have trouble with is that I cannot find a symbol, other than the square and compass, that is not used in Christianity, whether it be an old symbol, or a current.

This is not directed in particular to Christians, but seeing as a faith is required to join freemasonry and Christian is the more common in the West I was concerned that people saw Freemasonry in the fore mentioned DC layout rather than the fact that the chap was probably a Christian and that could be why the symbolism was used. (would that make Christians the NWO just kidding)

To get to the point I was wondering those opposed to Freemasonry if they wouldn't mind, could you post the particular symbols you know, and your understanding of their meaning.

Note to Mods: As mentioned I do not want to go over old subjects, I am just trying to get all the info for this one in the same place.

Note to Freemasons: I would ask you not to post in reply to anyone in this thread, instead U2U me your response and your thoughts and answers instead please.

Note to All: I am inviting all those who use the symbols of Freemasonry to show the negative side to make their point known, once the thread goes dead I along with the Mason's on the board will post a single response for you all in answer. Based in fact only.

This is an attempt to get both sides of the argument all the info in one place. Admittedly this is only one part of a large topic, if it works another area can be covered, and in time all the facts will be on the table for any person to make there own judgement without all the personal opinion.

If you, as in mods, thinks this is not going to work or is not worthwhile let me know I will delete contents and you can lock it up.

Originally posted by Bondi


This is not directed in particular to Christians, but seeing as a faith is required to join freemasonry and Christian is the more common in the West I was concerned that people saw Freemasonry in the fore mentioned DC layout rather than the fact that the chap was probably a Christian and that could be why the symbolism was used. (would that make Christians the NWO

just kidding)

It could also be mentioned that the supposed "Washington D.C. layout" exists only in the minds of conspiracy theorists. I've seen, ad nauseum, the conspiracy theorists post pictures of different Washington streets with pentagrams and goatheads drawn over them...however, it looks to me as if they're only drawing that stuff over it for "fun", as the actual maps themselves show no such images. Similar "proofs of satanic conspiracy" could be invented using any map from any place in the world: all you have to do is take a map, draw some occult symbols on it, say "See, I told you so!", and rest assured, they'll be some people out there who believe you.

That is one of the things this thread will hopefully iron out.

It is giving people who do believe in this symbolism stuff to put their point across, uninterrupted, without argument and without interruption. Then at the end, which please feel free to contribute to via U2U, I will make a single post in response.

They are free to post on the DC street map, the washington monument anything that denotes symbolism in a way they disagree with, in particular when they believe Freemasonry in to blame.

As in the first post, the idea is to get everyone to put the concerns in one place, one single thread. So there will be one place where some one can get all the pro/con comments in one go and make their own decision.

I strongly believe that the majority get their ideas and thoughts, for both sides, due to only accessing information from similar sources ie either masonic sources, or conspiracy sources.

It is not my intention to change anyone's views, just to pool all the info in one place.

Those who actually truly feel against the symbolism of freemasonry and where they feel it has been used will post here

Those who just hear a bit of info and chuck it into the conversation without really knowing anything about it, wont bother because they will get an answer that may put doubt into something they have said, or an alternative at least.

but what I have trouble with is that I cannot find a symbol, other than the square and compass, that is not used in Christianity,

could this possibly have anything to do with christianity from its earliest days
stealing and subsuming anything it could from any religion or belief it could?

[edit on 23-12-2004 by stalkingwolf]

Originally posted by stalkingwolf

but what I have trouble with is that I cannot find a symbol, other than the square and compass, that is not used in Christianity,

could this possibly have anything to do with christianity from its earliest days
stealing and subsuming anything it could from any religion or belief it could?

[edit on 23-12-2004 by stalkingwolf]

I don't want this thread going off topic, just posts regarding the symbolism in Freemasonry, where it is supposedly placed and shouldn't be, what people presume the symbols mean, etc etc.

And to correct my original statemet, it is only the compass I have not seen in Christianity.

Here is one Amigo. I don't think the Christians have ever used this one.

Originally posted by TgSoe
Here is one Amigo. I don't think the Christians have ever used this one.

The Swastika was used in the Banner of the Holy Roman Empire. Its first use in Christendom probably originated with Charlemagne.

However, the Christian Swastika was faced in the other direction, identical to Hitler's version. Hitler no doubt saw the Holy Roman Empire (or "First Reich") as the predecessor of his own, and used this as one of the reasons he adopted the symbol for National Socialism.

The Swastika pictured above on a Jewel of the 32� of Masonry, depicts the Buddhist-Hindu version, with the arms turned in the opposite direction of the later Christian and Nazi versions.




[edit on 24-12-2004 by Masonic Light]

This one from the house of theosophy? This one is loaded with symbology.

I have long been fascinated/confused by symbology, esp freemason or consipracy oriented symbols. It seems that the most obvious one, on the dollar bill, is confusing in that why would it exist were it not for the masons? Additionally, DC is not interesting to me due to pentagrams or demon's heads, but rather an interesting street layout and a seeming wealth of obelisks (sp?) I am an amateur at best and behind in my reading as well.
However, I have a fundamental issue with freemasonry. It seems that the premier minds of our age were masons (i consider this a good thing). However, in towns that I have lived in (mostly in the south) Mason's seemed to consist of politicaly big, or socially and proffesionally big people, but no great minds. In fact, many that I meet in daily life that seem particularly proud of their mason affiliation, come across as not exactly what early mason's would have envisioned as carrying on the tradition.
I apologize for taking this off topic, but while symbology was the overt purpose for this thread, it seemed that defending masonry was the underlying point.
I would like to make it clear that I am fully in support of what I beleive the early masons were interested in achieveing. I am not satisfied that it has been achieved, unless the more secretive members are far more impressive than the public ones I meet on a daily basis. (of course I am lumping many different areas of masonry together, undoubtledly unfairly).
I say these things not to cause offense, but rather to provoke conversation as to what masonry IS, IS Seen AS, and IS meant to be...
thank you, and its nice to be back.

Stumpy,

Good post.

To answer, I would have to agree and say that Freemasonry is not a society of great thinkers, but would also like to elaborate.

Although in some circles (especially conspiracy theorists) Freemasonry is viewed as elitis, in fact Masonry is just the opposite. Any man of good character who believes in God is eligible for admission.

Since these membership requirements are held by many, many people, it stands to reason that not everyone who is initiated in Masonry will be a great thinker. This isn't necessarily bad at all, though: there are millions of good men who are charitable, liberal, and tolerant but aren't necessarily deep thinkers. Such men are welcome in Freemasonry, and often find the fraternity's fellowship and charitable endeavors worthy of continuing their membership, and staying active in the Lodge.

But, on the other hand, Freemasonry does teach philosophy, science, ethics, and other disciplines that the deep thinker could spend years, and even a lifetime, pondering upon. The only thing that is actually required of our members is that act morally and honor the Almighty, but it is hoped that initiation will also spur the new Mason on to intellectual and spiritual inquiries, as well as morals and charity.

You are correct that, for example, many of our forefathers were Masons, and they were the great minds of their era. However, even then, for every deep-thinking Mason there was probably a hundred who were only interested in Masonry due to its charity and fraternal fellowship.

Merry Christmas to everyone on ATS!

[edit on 24-12-2004 by Masonic Light]

Sorry Bondi, I just have to say that I find it very strange that the only people who have posted in this thread are pro-Masonry.

Jeez, when you're trying to have a civil conversation they bust in with all this "Freemasons are evil, I have proof; my brother's girlfriend's uncle's second cousin's grandfather's brother-in-law was a 47 1/2 degree, and he said that Albert Pike wasn't albert Pike at all, he was a Luciferian alien baby-eater hell bent on reptilian domination."

But when you invite them to post their ideas and thoughts in one place... *crickets*

I wonder why that is...

This is the home page of The National Republican Senatorial Committee
nrsc.org...
Just another coincidence
Symbols are the phyiscal manifestations of the thoughts that created them
and can be discerned if you know their meaning

Originally posted by GLeamer
Symbols are the phyiscal manifestations of the thoughts that created them
and can be discerned if you know their meaning

Generalizations and innuendo, but no specifics. For all the great research you claim, you have yet to provide one iota of specific evidence of any kind.

Try discerning just one small symbol for us. Just one.
.

Sorry Bondi.

[edit on 12/31/04 by The Axeman]

Just how many "coincidences" are needed to be a real clue?
Are you saying that all these hundreds and hundreds of coincidences are a coincidence.
Ya I am misguided it's all just a big mistake of the non illuminated
There is nothing too it.
Funny how they keep comining back to the reptiles.
I am speaking just of the historical facts as- far as reptiles the proof isn't solid enough yet for me
but I don't discount that it could be true
I will keep an open mind and not let that great light you are shinning blind me.
ps GWBush is a Skull and Bones the Masons try but they cannot distance themselfs from this band of thugs They are the same people
Ignorance - my goodness why can't I see it's all a coincidence

Originally posted by GLeamer

ps GWBush is a Skull and Bones the Masons try but they cannot distance themselfs from this band of thugs

There's no need for Masonry to distance itself from Skull and Bones. Skull and Bones is not now, nor ever has been, nor ever will be, a Masonic organization. The Skull and Bones Society is in not related to Freemasonry any more than they are related to Rotary or Girl Scouts of America, or the Jedi Knights.

Freemasonry has no connection to any college fraternities whatsoever, aside from the fact that since Masonry was the world's first fraternity, it's been more or less a prototype for all the others.

Must be a hundred we are not a member, not affiliated,have no connection with. Who are the Masons connected with?
The Masons Grand Hall is 13 blocks N of the white house
Geometry and symbols are bread and butter to mason
Numbers especially the number 13 is a tenent of this non church
33 is also. Why is that mason?

Originally posted by GLeamer
Must be a hundred we are not a member, not affiliated,have no connection with.

MUCH more than "a hundred"

Who are the Masons connected with?

The Masonic Order is an autonymous organization. In the U.S.A. each "Grand" (or State governing) Lodge is independent. It only controls the subordinate (or local) Lodges within that state. There is no "international" controlling body of Masonry. Who are they connected with? Well, they "recognize" (fraternize) with other state Grand Lodges and there are numerous Appendent Masonic groups (the Order of the Eastern Star, York Rite, Scottish Rite, Knight Masons, Shriners, etc. etc.)

The Masons Grand Hall is 13 blocks N of the white house

I assume you're talking about The House of the Temple, which is the headquarters of the Southern Jurisdiction of the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry (one of those appendent groups I mentioned earlier) It controls ONLY the Scottish Rite Degrees of the Southern Jurisdiction, USA and has no authority beyond that. See:

www.srmason-sj.org...

Take the "virtual tour" it's a beautiful, impressive structure. If you're ever in D.C. stop by and they'll give you a free tour! That's even more impressive.

www.srmason-sj.org...

If it truly is 13 blocks from the White House, it's purely coincidental. Construction on this building wasn't begun until 1911, some 119 years after the cornerstone was laid for the White House. The Scottish Rite's "House of the Temple" has nothing to do with the White House, the Federal Government, yadda yadda...

Geometry and symbols are bread and butter to mason

Which Mason? I'm one and I prefer bread and butter. Yes Geometry is mentioned in some of the Masonic degrees and symbols are everywhere...not just in Masonry. (Ever seen a Cross or a Crucifix in a Church? How 'bout a Star of David in a Temple?) Wanna' know something....those are SYMBOLS! Wow!

Numbers especially the number 13 is a tenent of this non church

Finally you got something right. It's not a Church, so I guess "non-church" is pretty descriptive. It's not a church because it's NOT a religion. Period.
but the number 13 has NOTHING significant to do with Freemasonry. There is a 13th degree in the Scottish Rite system...but then again there's a 14th, a 15th and so on....and oh, there's a 33rd Degree (the Last, but not "highest" degree) See other threads on the "highest degree of Freemasonry"

33 is also.

Why is that mason?

Why is what?

SENRAK DID U RECEIVE THE E MAILS AS SOME ARE 2 BIG 2 SEND?