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Truly, truly; The hour is coming

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posted on May, 7 2015 @ 05:04 PM
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“Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of Man, and those who hear will live”- John ch5 v25

Jesus was fond of using the phrase “Truly I say to you”, but this “double” version, with the repeated AMEN, is found only in John’s gospel.
He seems to use it to mark the statements which he wants people to remember.

This discourse in the fifth chapter presents three of them in quick succession, underlining its importance.
The background of the discourse is the healing of the man at Bethesda, on the Sabbath.
Jesus is addressing those Jews who are criticising his “working”.

The first “Truly, truly” comes in v19;
“Truly, truly I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees his Father doing”.
This answers the charge that he was doing something wrong.
If he does not act on his own initiative, but only in accordance with the Father, then he cannot be acting against his Father’s will.

There follows a succession of statements beginning with “For”, which explain and expand upon what precedes them.

“For whatever [the Father] does, that the Son does likewise.”
This is the positive version of what he said in the first part of the verse.
Adding them together means that the two sets of actions coincide completely.
The Son does everything that the Father does, and avoids everything the Father does not do.

“For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all that he himself is doing”.
This explains how it is possible for the Son to do everything the Father does, given that he can only do what he sees the Father doing.
He sees everything, because the Father shows him everything.

“Greater works than these will [the Father] show him” (and therefore cause him to do).
The “working” is not just restricted to physical healing, but covers much more important matters.

“For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so the Son gives life to whom he will”.
This explains the phrase “greater works than these”.
The “raising from the dead” isn’t emphasised in the second part of the statement, because that isn’t, for the moment, what he’s talking about.
“To whom he will”. That is, not to everyone. A choice is being made.

“For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgement to the Son”.
This does not mean that the Father avoids judgement. It means that he and the Son are working together so closely on this matter that the task has effectively been delegated to the Son.
Judgement is the other side of the coin to “giving life”; everyone receives one or the other.

The intention is that “all may honour the Son, even as they honour the Father”.
The Son is a full partner in both sides of the task, giving life and giving judgement.
He should be honoured because he is doing the same work, and he should be honoured because the Father sent him.
Therefore anyone who denies him that honour is also guilty of failing to honour the Father.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life” (v24).
This is how the Son gives life “to whom he will”.
He presents his word, and people hear it and believe him.
This is giving him honour, and therefore believing and giving honour to the Father who sent him.

One who believes this word HAS eternal life.
Eternal life is not something which will begin in the future. It has begun already.
Putting it another way, “he has passed from [spiritual] death to life”.
Consequently he does not “come into judgement”.
He has already passed the test which separates the two categories.

Then we come to the third of the “Truly, truly” statements, the one I’ve already quoted.
“Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live”.

The declaration “The hour is coming” appears twice in these verses.
On this occasion it comes with “and now is”.
He is talking about something very imminent, something which has already begun even as he speaks.
“The dead will hear the voice of the Son of God”. These are the spiritually dead, those who need to pass from death to life.
“Those who hear will live”. That is, those who really hear, which will be the equivalent of “hearing the word and believing”. For the rest, presumably, it will be a case of “hearing but not hearing”.
So this verse takes the generalised promise of the previous verse and gives it an immediate application.

“For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself”.
This recaps the explanation given at the beginning of the discourse, and takes it a little further by adding the words “in himself”.
The Son is not just passing on something from the Father, but providing life from his own resources (a capability which the Father has given him).

In the same way, the next verse recaps the point about giving judgement, and adds a little more.
It explains that the Son has the EXOUSIA (the power or authority) to act as judge and he has this authority because he is “Son of Man”.
Surely this points back to the judgement scene in Daniel ch7, where “one like a son of man” appears before the throne of judgement and is given a kingdom which will never be destroyed.

The second declaration that “The hour is coming” appears in v28;
“The hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice”.
There are some very important differences from the statement in v25.
For one thing, it lacks the additional phrase “and now is”. He is not talking about the immediate future, but something more distant.
Furthermore, the voice will come to those who are “in the tombs”, that is the physically dead.
And the voice will be heard by ALL who are in the tombs, whether they are destined for life or for judgement.
In short, this verse is about a future resurrection followed by a final judgement, and a separation between those who did good and those who did evil.

Here those who did good receive “the resurrection of life”.
The earlier statement, of course, was that those who hear the word of the Son and believe have already received eternal life.
Reconciling the two statements seems to oblige us to make “hearing and believing” one of the definitions of “doing good”.

Finally, v30 brings a summary of the teaching of this part of the discourse.
He repeats that he does not have the power (OU DUNAMAI) to do anything independently.
He can only give judgement as he hears (from the Father).
Therefore his judgement cannot be anything other than just, because he gets it direct from the Father.
In everything he does, he seeks “not my own will, but the will of him who sent me”.

And the will of God, we have been learning from this discourse, is that everyone believing in him and placing their trust in him should receive eternal life.




posted on May, 7 2015 @ 05:23 PM
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Well God didn't show for world war one or two,or the cuban missile crisis,the crusades,the black death,Ghenghis Khan nor anything else so Im not holding my breath



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: khnum
I think you are responding to the title without reading the thread.
That isn't what the passage is talking about.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 05:34 PM
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Just another elaborate tale of a balance of consequences to keep the sheep in line when their really is none ,when a General Pinochet,Henry Kissinger or George Soros dies peacefully in their sleep without a care in the world its lights out like a lightbulb there is nothing there sir,if your dead your dead.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 05:35 PM
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a reply to: khnum

Eternal life is a thing of the spirit, not of the flesh. And, of course, if God prevented bad people from doing bad things, you'd be complaining you had no choice in the matter.

So you choose to hear and not really hear.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Yes in the good book God says it is he that allows evil to occur which is not incongruous the Old testament isn't about a sweetness and light God.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 05:47 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Oh, Lord..

not again..



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: Layaly
As in my reply to the first poster, I query whether you are not responding to the title without bothering to read the thread itself.
The subject of this thread is probably not what you think it is.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 05:50 PM
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originally posted by: khnum
a reply to: ketsuko

Yes in the good book God says it is he that allows evil to occur which is not incongruous the Old testament isn't about a sweetness and light God.


Some people wouldn't be happy if happiness itself were injected into them.

"But the shot hurt! ..."



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Good post D . Aside from the many works and laws within the bible we have the command to be saved . Fulfilling that one command causes great joy to the Father and brings glory to Jesus .By grace we are saved through faith and not by works lest anyone should boast .Salvation is of God .



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1
Yes, the "Truly, truly" statements are a good way of bringing this out. We've had "born again", and "feeding on the true bread" is coming next time. It all makes the point that life comes from God.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 06:43 PM
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It seems funny to me the children (son of man) turn out to be the judges when in fact it would make sense that the only way to test the Father and the Mother is to be judged by their own children, you cant make this stuff up.

And I think it would be easy to do the term Eternal life a terrible injustice should one wrongly imagine what Eternal life might be.

I think it is important to see the value in listening above hearing and not listening, to truly listen one must believe!!!



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: leadean
No, "Son of Man" is a specific reference to Jesus. He is talking about himself here.
It is the label he uses for himself in the other gospels, and also frequently in this one.
You need to realise that to appreciate the thrust of the passage.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 06:58 PM
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you are absolutely right. the 8th hour of the 7th of may 2015 does indeed approach with haste. it is three minutes away as i type.

the abovetopsecret clock says its the 7th hour, but my computer says 8.
edit on 7-5-2015 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 07:02 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm
Ah, someone else responding to the title alone.
In the OP itself, one discovers that the title is a quotation, which the OP examines.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 07:10 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: TzarChasm
Ah, someone else responding to the title alone.
In the OP itself, one discovers that the title is a quotation, which the OP examines.



ah, but the title was the most accurate part of your op. 99% of your thread is open to interpretation according to whatever beliefs you hold dear. but no matter when you look at it or why, the hour, an hour, some hour out of the 24 that each day brings us will always be coming.

Call upon your gods
Beg for them to help you
Call upon your gods
Religion has left you
Got a final hour
Cross the final line
Life will end
But there is no end to time...

~ dark lotus


edit on 7-5-2015 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 07:14 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm
Then presumably you can identify the inaccuracies in the rest of the OP.
Remember, the OP is a description of the contents of a passage in the New Testament, so you will need to show that the passage actually says something else.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 07:16 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: TzarChasm
Ah, someone else responding to the title alone.
In the OP itself, one discovers that the title is a quotation, which the OP examines.



ah, but the title was the most accurate part of your op. 99% of your thread is open to interpretation according to whatever beliefs you hold dear. but no matter when you look at it or why, the hour, an hour, some hour out of the 24 that each day brings us will always be coming.

Call upon your gods
Beg for them to help you
Call upon your gods
Religion has left you
Got a final hour
Cross the final line
Life will end
But there is no end to time...

~ dark lotus



Only to someone with no faith.

But of course, someday, we'll all find out who's right and who's wrong - theist or atheist. And if you're right ... oh well! Kind of hard for you to say, "I told you so," as a dead slab of meat. If we're right ... well ... that'll be between you and God.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 07:18 PM
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Since the OP contains 15 ''truly'' it's truly f?%& true.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 07:23 PM
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a reply to: LoveSolMoonDeath
It would. They're all being quoted from the words of Jesus, and Jesus says it a lot.
(Since he keeps saying "Truly, truly", I would have expected you to come up with an even number as a total. Perhaps a recount is in order)



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