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"The sins of the Father" Does that apply to Church Fathers or just Bio Dads?

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posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:30 AM
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There are several scriptures that say, "The sins of the father will be inherited on the children to the third and fourth generation."
www.kingjamesbibleonline.org...

Does this apply only to our Bio Dad, or does this apply to Church Fathers also? Are we held accountable for the sins of the Church Fathers?
I am asking this because, history reveals a church history, that is equal to the atrocities of the Islamist extremist of today. And some of the worst offenders are made Saints. The ends (Christianity) justifies the means (destroy other cultures).

Case in point, the Current Pope has decided to make Father Serra a Saint, for his role in the California Missions. For him to do this, its like spitting in the face of the thousands of lives that were destroyed by him and his church. I realize that was a long time ago, and that was then, and this is now. But, right now the Pope has decided to make him a Saint. Does the silence of the current Catholics, not speaking up about this, make them culpable for the sins of the Father in the eyes of God?







edit on 6-5-2015 by misskat1 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:37 AM
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a reply to: misskat1

I have a problem with anyone who has the audacity to condemn a child for the misdeeds of the parents.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:41 AM
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a reply to: misskat1

Does it really matter? There is not a single person on this earth, except for maybe babies, that have not committed a sin. I don't see how anyone ever living could be 3 or 4 generations removed from sin completely....an impossible task.

And if you ask forgiveness, does that matter as far as the sin being passed along?

Either way...religion....who needs it.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:41 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Me too.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:57 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

I haven't committed any sins, because I don't believe it is possible to sin. Sinning implies that good and evil exist and that isn't true either.
edit on 6-5-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:59 AM
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What is a bio dad?



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: misskat1

Just like with everything else in the Bible, this topic also is full of contradictions:

Exodus 20:5, Exodus 34:6-7, Deuteronomy 5:9 and 1 Cor 15:22 say YES, the sons bear the sins of the father... BUT..
Deuteronomy 24:16 and Ezekiel 18 say NO.

If the book was really wrote by a God, couldn't he have made it easier to read and understand?

But I guess the Bible refers to biological dads... church 'fathers' were untouchable until not long ago.
S&F

edit on 6-5-2015 by Agartha because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: DiggerDogg

Biological Father. In an adoption situation, the birth parents are often called the Bio Mom or Bio Dad.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 11:21 AM
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originally posted by: Agartha
a reply to: misskat1

If the book was really wrote by a God, couldn't he have made it easier to read and understand?

But I guess the Bible refers to biological dads... church 'fathers' were untouchable until not long ago.
S&F


The scriptures are generally considered to be the inspired word.(Logos)

It can be a maze, consider this perspective.

If parents are ignorant of missing the mark, they may have not learned to understand their mistakes.If they don't know what they did wrong how are they to teach their children?

This is how vicious circles perpetrate over generations.It continues until someone summons the courage to do what they didn't and passes that on down the line.
edit on 6-5-2015 by dffrntkndfnml because: grammer



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: misskat1
Yes. Those verses are strictly referring to biological fathers, and family lines. This is partly where the idea of family curses come from. The writers of the bible borrowed the idea from previous beliefs systems it incorporated into scripture. Though at the moment, I'm not finding the reference I'm looking for, but you can google it.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 11:35 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Vasa Croe

I haven't committed any sins, because I don't believe it is possible to sin. Sinning implies that good and evil exist and that isn't true either.


Yeah....I was speaking in the bible sense of the word.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 11:36 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Vasa Croe

I haven't committed any sins, because I don't believe it is possible to sin. Sinning implies that good and evil exist and that isn't true either.


I'm with you.

I really hate it when someone uses the argument: "We are all sinners".

Uh, speak for yourself.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

I agree, I also see how families get caught in repeating cycles, even alcoholism.
Im from a long line of super religious people. Now, I believe my religiousity, was a sickness that was passed down the line to me. Im still sorting stuff out. I believe in God, just not Religion.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: Annee

Yep. Only people who believe in God can sin, because sin is breaking God's law, like having sex without someone else's permission.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 11:56 AM
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a reply to: misskat1

I understand.It's the most personal journey, and religions can be double-edged swords.

Follow your heart, explore and enjoy the journey.Good luck
edit on 6-5-2015 by dffrntkndfnml because: grammer



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 06:14 PM
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Ezekiel 18
20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.


According to this verse, a person's sins are their own and their sins do not affect anyone but themselves. According to Catholic dogma, Eve's sin in the garden affected all of mankind, hence the need for Jesus' sacrifice.

It is possible not to sin, all it takes is a little effort. Those who believe it is unavoidable fall into the trap of sinning continuously because they believe it is unavoidable. This is why Christians claim they are sinners, because they do not put forth the effort to refrain from doing it.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 07:03 PM
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a reply to: misskat1


There are several scriptures that say, "The sins of the father will be inherited on the children to the third and fourth generation." Are we held accountable for the sins of the Church Fathers?

Exo_20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Under the Mosaic covenant, all of the tribal authorities swore an oath to God that in all of what God required they accepted. This covenant bonded them with God. Here God is reminding them of this covenant which could entail idolatry. If the people will bow down and worship these other false gods of these people that hate Him, then God will purge this idolatry from them which can take three or four generations.

This has nothing to do with Christianity whatsoever. Christianity is not under the Mosaic covenant which is the law. Christianity is under the new covenant of Yahusha Hamashiach (Jesus).



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 07:44 PM
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a reply to: Agartha


Just like with everything else in the Bible, this topic also is full of contradictions: Exodus 20:5, Exodus 34:6-7, Deuteronomy 5:9 and 1 Cor 15:22 say YES, the sons bear the sins of the father... BUT.. Deuteronomy 24:16 and Ezekiel 18 say NO.

Your difficulty could be in how you read and understand. Good example is 1 Corinthians 15:22 which has nothing to do with the iniquity of the fathers.

No one is responsible for the sins of their fathers. Each bear their own responsibility. It is the sin of idolatry of the idolater who hates God. If the idolater who hates the God of Moses and teaches it to his children and in turn they also hate God and turn to idolatry, then God will visit that iniquity to their charge. God then gives the idolaters three or four generations to breed out that hate or be given over to reprobate minds. Abraham was the child of such an idolater and was not accountable for Terah's idolatry. There is no contradiction. Only faulty interpretation.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:32 PM
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The Hebrew word “sin” is chatta which means to miss or fall short of a mark.In essence it means to be imperfect,immature,with flaw.This statement simply means the father passes his trait/imperfection/flaws of humanity on to his offspring.It is not a voodoo curse by a God invoked when someone commits acts of sin.It is the natural condition of mankind.This statement is just a description of that.

The word sin has been twisted into religious doctrine construct by the religious and used as a weapon of condemnation.Their minds have created a religious convoluted construct or morals and ethics that they cannot keep themselves yet compel others to by the fear of eternal punishment of hell by their God.This verse of scripture is just one of a multitude that is pulled out of context and interpreted to justify the means to an end and is nothing more than a doctrine of men.Yahoshua very clearly stated to the Jews who did this the consequence.

"You search [study] the scriptures thinking that in them you have life yet you fail to come to me whom they testify of that I would deliver you”.

This same act happens over and over with Christianity being the main perpetrators.They search the scriptures to justify their acts yet cannot receive the Yahoshua(Yahweh’s deliverance) which the scriptures testify of.They become more entrapped and bound in their religion.They seek “life”[spirit] in a book for the wrong purposes and repeat the same mistakes over and over, never coming to the “knowledge” of the truth.They have been given over to a reprobate mind with strong delusions so they would believe lies.Yahoshua dealt with this same situation many times.One time it was Jews that believed in him which he said

If you continue in my word then you will truly be my disciple then you will know the truth and then the truth will make you free”.

These Jews said we are Abraham's(or father) seed how do you say YOU will make us free.Yahoshua said truly truly any one who commits sin is the servant (in bondage to) sin but does not stay in that house [life] forever(an age).I know that you are Abraham's seed; but you seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you.I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do that which you have seen with your father.

After more arguing with Yahoshua he tells them…Why do you not understand my speech?(rhetorical).... because you cannot hear my word.You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and stayed not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own(nature): for he is a liar, and the father of lies.

This is the sins of the father.The word devil is translated from the Greek word diabolo a cognate of two words…
dia—a channel of an act through
bollo- thrown,travels,traverse

Strongs also translates this traduce- the English translation of traduce is to transfer from an order of reasoning to another order of reasoning.

The devil is not a spiritual entity being as believed by billions of people.It is in effect, a state of the religious carnal mind of man.It’s core reasoning is “through” the persons religion.Its all part of how the “machine(mechanisms) of mans mind works.Thoughts enter a persons mind and then transfer through “their” reasoning.That is how two reasonably sane people will react completely opposite to each other sometimes.Everyone is bringing their own “experiences to the table.The amalgamation of all of a persons experience form their belief in faith of “their” Belief System religion.

This is how the foundation of the world has been built frommamkind.Man “imagines” in his mind through their perception reason what their “life” is.That is the core of their belief “through” faith in their Belief System religion.By that fact alone everyone's life and perceptions are different.This life in every form comes from a “seed” and grows.

Yahoshua uses seed many times to describe how life(spirit) functions.(the parable of the soils and seed etc etc).He even proclaims it when he says he is the son/seed of the creator God.In other words he did not perceive “life” through a Belief System religion at all.He only “heard” from the father the creator God.Not one time does Yahoshua say he believes or has faith in the father the creator God he only says everyone else has belief in faith of their father from the seed of their father ....the diabolo.

This is what “The Seed” will deliver all of mankind from....the bondage of their religion.Then they will “know” the truth and then the truth will make them free.Christianity “believes” they know yet Christianity is the main purveyor of the devils lies just as Judaism was.Yahoshua purpose was not to create a new better religion (Christianity) but to destroy ALL religion which Christianity is the worse because it has twisted the truth of Yahoshua into a lie the most.

This is the the fathers sin revisiting his offspring from generation to generation.The nature of mans religion is like the ouroboros snake devouring itself.It repeats over and over.”The Seed” will destroy the snake but not in the physical realm.It must be destroyed by fire through tormenting.The word torment comes from the Greek word basanismos which means touchstone.A touchstone was used to test the purity of gold and silver.This is the symbolism John saw when he recorded his vision/dream in Revelation and this touchstone was called the lake of fire.Yahoshua called it the eternal (age lasting) flame.

It should be obvious that twisting the words to mean what a person wants them to mean is the sign of religion.All religion only leads to lies that are not truth because mans nature is religious!This is the great conundrum wrapped in a dilemma smothered in irony sauce of ALL of humanity.Man cannot “know” the creator God nor the truth of reality (The Kingdom of the creator God) in their heavens (their mind) through their religion because they are at enmity.They literally do not exist in the same universe.

Man “tries” to seek God and they find what they seek..their God!!!” ..and their God is “themselves” they have made in their “own” image…and the vicious cycle of the ouroboros continues.Man cannot “hear” the truth and be set free until their religion has been destroyed in the lake of fire…in other words this act can only be performed by the creator God.No man can “free themselves” from their nature.It was inherited from their “father” of humanity.The Good news is ALL of mankind will be set free…the downside effect is it will not be in the life lived in the physical realm(the valley of the shadows of death).

All efforts to do so by the religions of spiritualism, mysticism etc etc… only cause the ouroboros act of devouring to increase.When a person continues in the word(truth) THEN they will truly become disciples (hearers and doers) THEN they will KNOW the truth(the creator God) and then they will be set free from the bondage of their religion.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 11:20 PM
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originally posted by: Rex282
The Hebrew word “sin” is chatta which means to miss or fall short of a mark.In essence it means to be imperfect,immature,with flaw.This statement simply means the father passes his trait/imperfection/flaws of humanity on to his offspring.It is not a voodoo curse by a God invoked when someone commits acts of sin.It is the natural condition of mankind.This statement is just a description of that.


Exactly. You are nurtured with the same misdeeds that your parents have while raising you. It is very enlightening when you reach the point of life where you begin to see the mistakes your parents make and you realize that almost 100% of the time you have the same flaws. The more I learn about my parents the more I learn about my self.




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