MH17-Ukrainian BUK ?

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: RussianAmericanJew
Just curios, did anybody figure out yet that BUK is a top attack SAM? It's been a long time since this whole mess, it should have been apparent for just as long. MH17 was not hit from the top as BUK does in its terminal active tracker tracking phase.

This is a post from a guy that served on BUK, he explains everything in detail, google translate it;

ursa-tm.ru... forum/index.php?/topic/100441-ia-sluzhil-na-komplekse-bukmysli-sluzhivogo

In short BUK is not the murder weapon, it kills from the top, not from behind.

Yeah we know that's how the report narrowed it down to a buk. It attacked the cockpit area not the jet exhaust like a missile from a plane. You need to read the report on fact theyes even found parts of the missile embedded in the plane russian manufature. No doubt what it was at all only thing we're waiting for in final report is waiting for is to tell us who the crew was bUT I've seen reports they know who manned it just verifying and looking for witnesses.

There will be trial over this going to be lucky if they don't make it a war crime.

That's the point, it is the older Soviet BUK-M1 that uses command guidance to pull lead prior to seeker lock, Russian 9K37M1-2 Buk M1-2 and later models use top attack envelope.

The main problem is that even if Russians orchestrated a special operation by pulling a mothballed M1, they would need to fire a old missile, because fragments that were found are reported to be of different shape then modern Russian BUK systems.

So on one hand we have a Ukrainian Soviet era BUK that completely fits all of the parameters down to the warhead shrapnel size and shape, and Russians pulling off an incredible special operation of incriminating Ukrainians by invisibly smuggling an exact copy of Ukrainian BUK into position, somehow infiltration Ukrainian ATC to issue orders to the MH17 to deviate from the flight plan and forcing it to fly over combat zone right over Ukrainian BUK system, then lunching its own BUK missiles that leave no trails, then somehow placing already stiff and frozen corpses into mangled aircraft wreckage, and to top if off initialize a mop up operation so reaching that even after handing over original and untempered with flight recorders not a single Western agency can say a single word about any of it.

If Russians have the resources and expertise to pull of an operation like that, gentleman, then it's not only a regional power as Obama said, it's an all reaching power that can shoot down planes and wage war in open sight while US government can't do anything about it.

If that is the case, then Obamas administration is criminally negligent, and all of the TRILLIONS of out tax dollars have been looted, because if with all these supposed Russian criminal actions taking place, not a single shred of evidence has been provided, so I ask you, how can that be?

The largest, most technologically advanced, best staffed and financed intelligence system in the world is totally incapable of producing even a single definitive piece of evidence in over a year?

So we have two scenarios;

#1 - Russia is a super power that US policy can not influence other then imposing collective economic punishment through bank manipulation.

#2 - All levels of US Administration are completely negligent in foreign affairs and allowed Russian influence to grow beyond White House control

Or, my personal opinion, it's that private foreign influence over the corrupt US government is using America to simply loot one country after another, right up until they met definitive resistance in Syria, East Ukraine and Russia.

That's just how I see it.

a reply to: RussianAmericanJew

Or Russia is a 3rd rate power whose leader somehow thinks he can rebuild the USSR and can somehow win a war against the West of his own making.

Russia can easily pull of a mission that would make it look like Ukraine is to blame. The simple fact Russian soldiers have been caught inside Ukraine now on several occasions lends to that possibility. In the case of the BUK the rebels took credit for bringing it down. There are phone conversations from rebels to the masters in Moscow about what occurred. Russian media has shown the rebels with the missile launchers.

Russia has consistently claimed different versions of what happened to MH17. each time lying about the information, and each time being caught in those lies, only to see them release a new version of what occurred, with more lies. Remember Russia claimed it was shot down by an aircraft and only when it became proof positive it was brought down by a SAM did they once again change their version of what happened.

The only people believing what Russia says are Russians themselves, and that is starting to to level off as more and more information leaks out about Russian military involvement in Ukraine.

Hence the reason Putin is trying to move elections to this year instead of next year.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: RussianAmericanJew

In the case of the BUK the rebels took credit for bringing it down. There are phone conversations from rebels to the masters in Moscow about what occurred. Russian media has shown the rebels with the missile launchers.

Dude get real, rebels didn't take responsibility, that was a crude fake that was debunked from the very beginning, are you for real? Why would you repeat an age old fake?

The missile launcher that was shown was in a entirely different area, and it was only a launcher, no radar or command vehicles. Launcher is just that, a tracked vehicle that carries and launches the missiles, it can't guide them, radar and command vehicle s are required to fire the missile.

The rest is not even worth noting. Your anti-Russian rant is like speech from a recruitment flat head that gets bonus pay for every dumb ass he gets to sign up. All the best to you fella

a reply to: RussianAmericanJew

If you hate America and love Russia so much, why don't you move back? I'm sorry to keep this at such a personal level, but given the high level of anti-semitism here on ATS, your member name seems designed to cause trouble. Putin has been cultivating neo-Nazi groups while trying to placate Russian Jews. I would appreciate your opinion of this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And this one:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The MH-17 drama is nearing its denoument; even Russia now admits it was a Russian missile. The issue we need to address now is: what will the world look like if Putin gets his way? Something tells me it will be Stalin all over again: all the Jews who fought to overthrow the old system will be liquidated by the new one.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien



Wiki - LifeNews

LifeNews is a Russian news website and 24-hour television channel that is owned by the News Media holding company.[2] The TV channel was officially launched in September 2013. As of February 2014, it had a potential audience of 30 million subscribers.[3] The channel's editor-in-chief is Anatoly Suleymanov.[4]

LifeNews is owned by Ashot Gabrelyanov.

The Gabrelyanovs operate in different sectors of Russian life from showbusiness to the security services. According to an article in The Moscow Times an influence on their recent success has been loyalty to the Kremlin. "The father, Aram Gabrelyanov, refers to President Vladimir Putin as the "father of the nation". [-] One of Putin's oldest friends spent $80 million to become a key shareholder in the Gabrelyanovs' holding company, News Media, providing it with a flood of cash for investment.' [5][6]

In September 2014 Ukraine's National Council of Television banned 15 Kremlin-run channels, including Life News, for spreading war propaganda.[7]

In 2015 News Media cut around 15 to 17 percent of the employees of Lifenews.[8]

a reply to: Xcathdra

HAHAHAHA, still up to your old tricks...debunk, debunk, debunk !

Kolomoysky has no ties to LifeNews whatsoever and it was only just broadcasted by them...

...but attack the messenger if you can't deny the information.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Not at all considering I never attacked you. I merely pointed out Lifenews and who owns it. sorry if you cant handle that information.

a reply to: Xcathdra

So it was just completely irrelevant and not to try and diminish the information...yeah right !

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

Yes pure propaganda read the interview he believes put in should be beyond reproach. And sees it as his duty to protect him.

www.stopfake.org...

a reply to: dragonridr

He is doing the same in the other thread talking about how MH17 was brought down, trotting out the bs agreement argument that countries can veto evidence while also pushing the counter to the bellingcat Russia satellite manipulation.

Apparently the thought process is to repeat it as often as possible in hopes people will believe it.

Well, whoever fired it, it was a Russian BUK:

cdn.onderzoeksraad.nl...

a reply to: Xcathdra

bellingcat Russia satellite manipulation.

Is that the Bellingcat analysis that was proven to be the result of the wrong use of image analysis software, as claimed by the maker of said software?

a reply to: DJW001

What do you mean with "russian" BUK?

originally posted by: RogueWave
a reply to: Xcathdra

bellingcat Russia satellite manipulation.

Is that the Bellingcat analysis that was proven to be the result of the wrong use of image analysis software, as claimed by the maker of said software?

Please provide a link to anything besides RT.

originally posted by: RogueWave
a reply to: DJW001

What do you mean with "russian" BUK?

Does any other nation manufacture BUK missiles?

originally posted by: DJW001

Please provide a link to anything besides RT.

Experts say MH17 might have been downed by Ukraine

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

MOSCOW, October 13. /TASS/. The modification and type of the Buk missile, as well as the position of the Buk missile system that brought down the Malaysian Flight MH17 Boeing in 2014, suggest that the Ukrainian Armed Forces might have downed the airliner, Alexander Luzan, a former deputy chief of the Russian army air defense, said on Tuesday.

Your own source.

So which experts are you going to believe? The ones who claim it was an SU-25 with supernatural powers? The ones who rigged a test to make the missile damage look as unlike the actual damage as possible? The eyewitness who overheard a pilot on a noisy airfield? What story are you going with... and why?

a reply to: DJW001

I will go with a BUK shoot down.

I am curious though, based on the report and the section dealing with other aircraft present, how Russia is going to rectify the issue of no military aircraft being present at the time of the incident. That conclusion is based on all available radar, including from Russia. Makes one wonder what else Russia is trying to hide / lie about.

That was a big surprise, designating a possible BUK launch area which leaves open which side has done it.

The propaganda starting the days before and right after the release said enough, their fabricated case is pretty weak. That much media propaganda surrounding it is only necessary if the case isn't that strong. 10 months ago coming all out blazing "the net was closing," and now needing so much propaganda to support the report in making the suggestion Russia was involved shows they haven't been able to create much.

For the criminal case results to be realised, it could still take a lot of time according to the news over here (they might want to wait till most of the politicians who have been so vocal about it have left their positions).

I was expecting them to go after Russia with the same vigour as they had done the whole time, so leaving open which side has done it, by marking such a big launch area, is a bit surprising. But it gives merit to reports this summer that several of the involved parties weren't too happy with the outspoken conclusions in the report because of lack of evidence to support it, and the report getting revised after that (The US was one of them).