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Stupid Design - Dr. Tyson makes some good points...

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posted on May, 8 2015 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Krazysh0t

That concept presupposes that humans are the bodies we inhabit. If we are actually the frequency of energy that our bodies partially and temporarily possess and process, then the universe was absolutely designed for and with us...


Can you prove that hypothesis according to the scientific method? No. Of course not. Then it's not worth considering until you can.


the arrogance of man is dumbfounding. I would be happy to debate Dr. Tyson on ANY subject...

Jaden


Says the guy who arrogantly thinks he can guess how the universe works without any evidence describing the phenomenon.
edit on 8-5-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 8 2015 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
I've always found it astounding how well the human body is designed. And the universe as well. How all it's accidents, and catastrophes came together in the end to support such a magnificent planet as Earth.

Oh well.
I don't see the human body as designed very well. For one, we use the same hole for eating that we do for breathing. That seems wildly dangerous and inefficient. Look at dolphins or whales. They're mammals like us, but their holes for breathing are separate from their holes for food. Our optic nerve crosses over the photo-receptors in our eye, causing a blind spot. That seems silly. One top of that, the eye is blind to waves in the radioactive spectrum (gamma). If we could SEE deadly radiation coming, we could more easily avoid it. Our noses can't detect most lethal gasses before they're in such a concentration that it's already too late.

Our reproductive system is RIGHT NEXT to our waste disposal system, and in the case of men, liquid waste is removed through the SAME hole as semen. Why? It would be cleaner and much more hygienic to have the two systems a little father apart.

There are all kinds of flaws in human design. Why can we not see infrared? If we WERE designed by an "intelligent" designer, I'd say they were pretty damn stupid.


Stupid. I see. I've never personally experienced any difficulties in any of those areas, I guess.

But, it would be nice if we had stronger/faster immune systems, and I've always thought it would be lovely to be able to fly under our own power.

And dammit! I wish somebody would become smart enough to finally build a George Jetson car!



posted on May, 8 2015 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Are you stupid or just arrogant? I don't GUESS how the universe works, my theory is testable, but like many theories, there are multiple possible conclusions based on any potentially supportive evidence. There is also MUCH evidence that supports the stated theory, but it is summarily dismissed by people like you with huge confirmation biases because "impossible" and you turn around and accuse me of arrogance.

Jaden



posted on May, 8 2015 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: Masterjaden

Ok. Fine. I will allow that your hypothesis (stop calling it a theory; it isn't) is testable. So test it already. Where is your data showing the tests? Did you write up a report in a peer reviewed article? Probably not. What about a report in general?

You are making some grandiose statements and haven't exactly put forth ANY confirmation of them. I'm really curious about how you tested your hypothesis, mostly because I DON'T have confirmation bias. I am willing to admit when I'm wrong, provided I have been adequately proven wrong. Your words aren't doing a good job though. Heck your follow up post is just you whining because I casually dismissed your hypothesis without considering it. Produce some evidence. Who cares if I dismiss it, at least you have covered your bases.
edit on 8-5-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2015 @ 02:32 PM
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originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Are you stupid or just arrogant? I don't GUESS how the universe works, my theory is testable, but like many theories, there are multiple possible conclusions based on any potentially supportive evidence. There is also MUCH evidence that supports the stated theory, but it is summarily dismissed by people like you with huge confirmation biases because "impossible" and you turn around and accuse me of arrogance.

Jaden


You mean your hypothesis is testable, not theory in scientific meaning?!

Care to provide links and links to peer review?



posted on May, 8 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Says the guy who arrogantly thinks he can guess how the universe works without any evidence describing the phenomenon.


I always find it amusing when people accuse scientists of being arrogant because they agree with the scientific results they have found, but the folks who blindly believe in intelligent design as absolute truth with zero evidence are humble and open minded. It is definitely LOLworthy. The chance of him actually showing that he can test his hypothesis is pretty much at 0% right now. But we are the arrogant ones! Damn those know-it-all scientists with their valid data and conclusions!!!

edit on 8-5-2015 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2015 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: Barcs

Always more of the same... Notice that his response to me come complete with an insult as well?



posted on May, 8 2015 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: Barcs

You are guilty of the same thing you accuse me of. You blindly follow the paradigm because "people smarter than you". I don't acknowledge his or anyone's intellect as being superior to mine. I can analyze things fine myself and have the IQ scores to prove it, not that they are necessary.

People like you and Krazyshot (and don't get me wrong, many who adhere to views opposed to yours as well) don't bother to analyze evidence for yourself or even give it a second thought. Then you project your blind adherence to your paradigms onto anyone with opposing views. I don't blindly follow ANYONE. I look at all available evidence (not just what the paradigms SAY is evidence) and analyze it myself...

Yeah Krazy shot, I did include an insult, dipwads that insist they have the answers without pondering anything and who deny any evidence that doesn't fit their world view are deserving of it and again, NOT just people who believe what you do, people on the opposite side who are also guilty of it are also deserving of it.

It's equally impossible to have a rational discussion with people like you and people who believe something because the bible and their pastor tells them so.

Jaden
edit on 8-5-2015 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2015 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: Masterjaden

What evidence? You haven't presented any. You said your hypothesis was testable so let's hear it then.



posted on May, 8 2015 @ 06:18 PM
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a reply to: Masterjaden

Masterjaden,

You said you have hypothesis, I asked for link and peer review, but you failed to provide them.

However, from your last post I have a feeling that you are under impression that new hypothesis and possible theory can't be established, yet if you follow any of scientific paper reviews you will see that we have them now in weekly bases, almost to point that is hard to follow. It is nothing unusual that new theory replace old one after new results show that old one was wrong, it happens all the time, but it seems to me that you don't see that.

Wonder, if is not much to ask, where do you review papers and documents?? Would it be too hard to post it?



posted on May, 8 2015 @ 07:29 PM
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a reply to: Verum1quaere


you gotta read the Bible

I have. Are you sure that you've read it? Because it says nothing about what you've suggested below.


the creation is in a fallen state. fossil record shows everything was bigger: dragon flies, bison, crocs, etc all massive compared to modern… so no evolution, but devolution apparent

No, the fossil record shows that everything was very very small then, as oxygen levels rose, things got bigger. Then, as oxygen levels dropped again, things got smaller. In other words, life adapted to its surroundings.

But by all means, keep pretending that anything earlier than 300Mya didn't happen if it fits your version of events driven by the Bible. Or didn't you realize that about four BILLION years of our planet's history happened before the giant animals you're talking about?


and every geneticist knows about GENTIC ENTROPY

If you understood what entropy was, you'd further understand that it has nothing to do with genetics.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: Masterjaden

Intelligence will only get you so far. You have to actually understand the tools, the methods and the physical evidence, while also being willing to learn new things. Are you going to demonstrate how your theory is testable as you claimed?

I don't blindly follow anything. I always research both sides, do you? The simple fact is the science wins over creationist claims every time. I used to be skeptical of evolution, myself. In my early 20s I really did believe that it was "just a theory", which made it a complete guess. Once I started reading and learning about how it works and where the evidence and conclusions come from, it started to make more sense. I've taken classes, seen dozens of lectures online and read the peer reviewed research papers. It isn't a dogma. There is evidence you can study and experiments that you can duplicate yourself.

Science is not just a stab in the dark based on arrogance or based on hate of religion. It is legitimately where the evidence points. That doesn't negate a creator, however. It just may mean evolution was used as a tool and the bible is not the literal "word of god" as many proclaim.


edit on 9-5-2015 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 06:17 AM
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originally posted by: randyvs
See God is realised in the heart.


Hello again randyvs.

You know I've often heard it said by many Christians God is realized in the heart, and similar things. To me it's like they're saying, when all else fails trust in emotion. I believe they are more often then not, driven by emotion. It is probably safe to assume they feel something different. As you say, one of the places God can be found within, is in the heart. I wonder then, how you reconcile the Godly tug of heartstrings with verses such as Jeremiah 17:9.

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

Now, you can attribute my Godlessness to whatever you want. I feel there are plenty of reasons why the various religions/faiths (whatever you want to call them) of the world are wrong. If you feel that me claiming Christianity false is arrogant, that's ok. Do you consider yourself arrogant for claiming the other religions are false, or of the devil (I don't know that I have seen you make these claims, but assume they come with the territory of being a Christian)? Either way though..

Many religious claims don't add up or stand up to scrutiny. Those are the cold hard facts. I will take my F in spirituality, thank you very much. If you can define exactly what spirituality is and how it works, you've got my interest. But for now, I see it as just another religious string attached to emotion. Subjective, and differing from person to person.



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: WakeUpBeer




If you feel that me claiming Christianity false is arrogant, that's ok.


Not at all. Should I demand you be a carbon copy of my beliefs?
How could I? By holding a gun to your head? That would be closer
to Islam I believe. It's only how one makes that claim that could
come off as arrogant. Believing ones disbelief makes a person
smarter than believers when there is flatly no indication either
way.




Many religious claims don't add up or stand up to scrutiny.


Yeah, it's easy to ridicule claims of miracles yet that is what is
required if God is to be God. Miracles come with the territory.
And they're always easily scoffed at afterwards. Many times
by those that stood there and saw with there own eyes.
So your claims of falsehood aren't bothersome. They're the
norm. Nothing new.



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: randyvs


Yeah, it's easy to ridicule claims of miracles yet that is what is
required if God is to be God. Miracles come with the territory.
And they're always easily scoffed at afterwards. Many times
by those that stood there and saw with there own eyes.
So your claims of falsehood aren't bothersome. They're the
norm. Nothing new.


i think the word "miracle" is applied far too frivolously. or perhaps miracle ought to be defined as "an unexplained phenomena which we then fail to fully investigate and subsequently assume has no rational cause outside of the supernatural"

edit on 10-5-2015 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 05:13 PM
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originally posted by: randyvs
Yeah, it's easy to ridicule claims of miracles yet that is what is
required if God is to be God. Miracles come with the territory.
And they're always easily scoffed at afterwards. Many times
by those that stood there and saw with there own eyes.
So your claims of falsehood aren't bothersome. They're the
norm. Nothing new.


My reasons for claiming religions false (in this case Christianity) has little or nothing to do with miracles. The term is used way to loosely in my opinion. While I have neither experienced or witnessed anything I would personally consider miraculous, I have heard at least one first hand account from a person I know and trust. While interesting and unexplained, I don't believe it defies explanation or that God is the explanation.

Take other stories of miracles. Perhaps you have your own. I've read stories from people where they are in such an intense life and death situation they believe there was absolutely no way they survived it without the guiding hand of God. A car accident for example, where some things seemed to defy the laws of physics. Perhaps there was even the clear audible voice of God warning them, in their head. Highly fascinating, to be sure. But again I don't believe the explanation was God. I don't have an explanation either. Either way though, experiences such as those are entirely subjective and cannot be repeated and tested, or studied conclusively.

The way I see it, the only evidence left to back up religious beliefs, is entirely subjective. Here we have a book that is supposed to be divinely inspired by God himself. Yet it's full of inconsistencies, inaccuracies, and contradictions. A God who is supposedly perfect, yet begets imperfection. Failed prophecies. Prophecies written in after the fact so they appear fulfilled. Questions of authorship. Things like these that don't add up to it being the divine truth of things, is why I can confidently say it's just another interesting mythology.



Believing ones disbelief makes a person
smarter than believers when there is flatly no indication either
way.

I agree with you on this point.



posted on May, 10 2015 @ 11:29 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

I myself tend to see it both Vincents and Jules way.
There are miracles when God steps in with good reason.
Not so in this case.

Everything in this plane of existence, this conscious, sentient earthly
experience. Tells me flat out there must be a miracle worker. Because
life is a miracle. My attempt to find him led me to Christ and the Bible.
I think you and WUB exaggerate what you call it's fallicies. Contradictions?
The ones I have found would blow away all those mentioned ever here
on ATS. But even if I'm wrong about the Bible, at least I've looked and
cited something as the best I could find. And that's so far and away from
just making my own decision that there is no God. I will never understand
how someone can make that leap. When humanities past is screaming in
your face, about how wrong you are.
edit on Ram51115v052015u48 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2015 @ 06:07 AM
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a reply to: randyvs


Actually, on contrary, our past screams that we can actually see evolution of human need to replace "I don't know" with "God did it". It can be see in first documented religions, and it shows flaw for every religion that tried to give an answer to where everything comes from, or in case of this topic, how intelligently we were design according to latest creator's work claims.

Your claims about some 'miracles', for some not important things, while humans die in millions just points to god who does not really care or who can't help. Sam Harris had good explanation regarding this, we have seen it many times here on ATS.

With those miracle stories, Bible itself gets in level with rest of fairy tales, in product of human imagination and with simple effect to scare kids not to do certain things...



posted on May, 11 2015 @ 07:06 AM
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a reply to: SuperFrog




With those miracle stories, Bible itself gets in level with rest of fairy tales, in product of human imagination and with simple effect to scare kids not to do certain things..


This is pretty weak. Bad frog.



posted on May, 11 2015 @ 07:19 AM
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originally posted by: DAVID64
I've always thought the human body was poorly "designed". Take pain for example : Yes, it's needed to alert you to damage being done, but we should be able to shut it off. It can and will cripple you to the point that you can't survive. Damaging one part of the body should not effect the rest to that point. Useless organs are next. Why do we need an appendix? Or tonsils? We are absurdly easy to kill and lack any sort of natural self defense. No claws or suitable teeth to fight with, just a big ol' brain that tells us to pick up a rock or stick to beat'em over the head with. But, I guess it works.


Well the poor designed human body have actually become the moste feared animal on this planet. We own this planet and can do what ever we want With it. No other animal can do that.

Poor design my ass. The reason we think we are poorly designed is becaue of how we have chosen to live and build Our society. That is a poor design...it is because of what we design you have to suffer.




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