Stupid Design - Dr. Tyson makes some good points...

originally posted by: jjkenobi
As Christians would (and should) point out, God did design everything perfect. The Earth and Man. In the Garden of Eden. It wasn't until sin occurred and man was cursed and kicked out of the Garden that all things began down the path of deterioration.

If you don't believe the Bible then this won't mean anything to you. The Bible does not say or give any indication how long between creation and the original sin. Could have been one day, one week, or one hundred million years. And God had the forbidden tree there so man did have a choice. He did not desire mindless robots. Even the angels have a choice. I could go on for a while on this topic but the point is God did create everything perfect and everyone has a choice whether to believe and follow Him or not.

The big glaring contradiction with this is that if everything was originally perfect, how did the first sin happen? Obviously it either was not perfect, or the first sin couldn't have happened. You can't have it both ways.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: SuperFrog

Perfect example of a big brain being nullified by a total ass.
By trying to convince people he knows what he couldn't possibly
know? Or even speaking in terms as if he does? He suceeds in
making himself look like a biased idiot. He's a Godless human being
and everyone should be Godless like him because he's smart.

Tyson and all the Godless people in this Godless thread get an
F in spirituality. Because God can't be realised by the biggest
brain you dodos. See God is realised in the heart. He is
the light of eternal mind.

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding,"

Job 38:4

Nice argument. Those mean evil godless heathens influenced by the devil to worship evolution cuz they hate god!!!!

The guy is right about pretty much everything in the video. Do you have an argument against the content or are you just here for the usual rant and rave about the mean people rather than the facts presented? You do realize that videos like this wouldn't be made in the first place if creationists didn't constantly attack science based on appeals to ignorance, right? Always attacking science, yet quick to play the victim card when scientists fire back with facts.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I suspect we are hanging on by our teeth in this solar system because it had already survived some catastrophe which left Uranus spinning on its side, Venus spinning backwards and an asteroid belt where a planet should be. When it comes to stupid design, or whatever design, the universe is haphazard at the least and during our existence, I suspect we have been incredibly lucky. Just the thought of another body getting too close and tilting us just a little further, or grabbing our atmosphere doesn't bear thinking about, which is probably why its so rare to have discussions on risk factors universal or whatever.

I've always found it astounding how well the human body is designed. And the universe as well. How all it's accidents, and catastrophes came together in the end to support such a magnificent planet as Earth.

Oh well.

I don't think the universe is designed. I think it does follow hidden patterns. There are "ideal" forms. That's what convergence in evolution shows, in my opinion. That's why we have marsupial dogs and flying squirrels that look just like their placental counterparts. I think it might be a living, evolving universe, evolving along a determined path. Like an embryo developing into an adult.

you gotta read the Bible: the creation is in a fallen state. fossil record shows everything was bigger: dragon flies, bison, crocs, etc all massive compared to modern… so no evolution, but devolution apparent.

and every geneticist knows about GENTIC ENTROPY:

Geneticists:
Dr. Crow: we are inferior to caveman.
Dr. Knodrashov: no human geneticist doubts man is degenerating.
Dr. Lynch Even assuming a lower mutation rate, we are degenerating at 1%-5% per generation.

John Sanford on Genomic Entropy
youtu.be...

Average cell in 15 yr old - up to 6,000 mutations per cell. (all your cells are different)
Skin cell in 60 yr old - up to 40,000 mutations
Mutations primary cause of aging and death.
“...little potential for substantially increasing the upper limit of human life span.” (upper limit: 120 yrs)
--Michael Lynch (Population Geneticist)
50% reduction in sperm count in men.

Around 100 new mutations per generation.

Implies a young Creation and as with DNA complexity, theory of evolution is unlikely.

Dr. Francis Collins, head of Human Genome Project, converted to Christ partly due to the data.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
.. drill down into the nuisances ..

There are some nuisances I'd like to take a drill to..

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: SuperFrog

Perfect example of a big brain being nullified by a total ass.
By trying to convince people he knows what he couldn't possibly
know? Or even speaking in terms as if he does? He suceeds in
making himself look like a biased idiot. He's a Godless human being
and everyone should be Godless like him because he's smart.

Tyson and all the Godless people in this Godless thread get an
F in spirituality. Because God can't be realised by the biggest
brain you dodos. See God is realised in the heart. He is
the light of eternal mind.

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding,"

Job 38:4

my favorite part of your post - "By trying to convince people he knows what he couldn't possibly
know?"

such irony and you dont even appreciate it.

How do you know?

a reply to: Verum1quaere

List of scientists who converted after studying the evidence.

a reply to: SuperFrog

Thanks for the Tyson clip. I had not seen that one before. It is yet more proof of the man's genius.

a reply to: Shiloh7

Could be worse, we could be in the direct line of a Supernova blast. One of those hits our solar system and everything in it is immediately sterile. At least we wouldn't be alive long enough to notice. Everything would get really bright then it would be over.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Shiloh7

Could be worse, we could be in the direct line of a Supernova blast. One of those hits our solar system and everything in it is immediately sterile. At least we wouldn't be alive long enough to notice. Everything would get really bright then it would be over.

NG documentary Evacuate Earth covers this and scientist cover what would happen to earth and our solar system if something like this happens. They also cover what religious and conspiracy folks would make out of it... (In my opinion to very good degree, unfortunately...)

a reply to: SuperFrog

For starters Humans would not be the best example to use in the case of Intelligent design. Insects, inverterbrates and molluscs have remained relativity unchanged for hundreds of millions of years and have survived a number of extinctions and have thrived ever since; one could argue that they were intelligently designed and not us.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Anytime someone says that the human body has an intelligent design I roll my eyes and have to sigh.


To me the human body looks incredibly unintelligent. If a god would have consulted me first I would have recommended many upgrades. There would have been no need to look far for examples he could have just used the designs from other speces.

Mantis shrimp have eyesight so much better than us comparatively it is like they have high definition and we have an old black and white that is going on the fritz with bad reception. The immortal jellyfish can reverse its aging at will, a salamander can regrow limbs, organs, and even parts of its brain. Many species can regrow teeth regularly, Horseshoe crabs blood is resistant to most disease and infections, dolphins and bats have echolocation, the honey badger if bit by a cobra only needs to take a nap and it's good to go, sharks skin scale pattern makes it to where fungus or germs do not accumulate they are also extremely resistant to cancer, Orangutans pound for pound are massively stronger than us, Geckos can stick to almost any surface because they have more surface contact on their finger tips, many species have internal compasses, several species can hibernate many can control their oxygen consumption for long dives like whales, birds have a far superior respiratory system, and the plant kingdom can photosynthesize from the sun.

How can anyone say we are intelligently designed when we have such shoddy equipment. The only area we truly excel at is the brain which gives us reason yet creationists don't seem to appreciate that aspect at all and do their best to turn it off.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
I've always found it astounding how well the human body is designed. And the universe as well. How all it's accidents, and catastrophes came together in the end to support such a magnificent planet as Earth.

Oh well.

I don't see the human body as designed very well. For one, we use the same hole for eating that we do for breathing. That seems wildly dangerous and inefficient. Look at dolphins or whales. They're mammals like us, but their holes for breathing are separate from their holes for food. Our optic nerve crosses over the photo-receptors in our eye, causing a blind spot. That seems silly. One top of that, the eye is blind to waves in the radioactive spectrum (gamma). If we could SEE deadly radiation coming, we could more easily avoid it. Our noses can't detect most lethal gasses before they're in such a concentration that it's already too late.

Our reproductive system is RIGHT NEXT to our waste disposal system, and in the case of men, liquid waste is removed through the SAME hole as semen. Why? It would be cleaner and much more hygienic to have the two systems a little father apart.

There are all kinds of flaws in human design. Why can we not see infrared? If we WERE designed by an "intelligent" designer, I'd say they were pretty damn stupid.

An example that hits home for me is the need to wear glasses. I'm 34 and just recently was diagnosed with astigmatism. Basically it has to do with the shape of my eye not properly focusing the light. 70%+ of the human population cannot see properly without the aid of technology. Imagine how painful this must have been before humans invented that technology. Having poor vision causes headaches, eye strain, extra stress and is a very unpleasant experience. I went through all of this for about a year before I realized that it was all caused by my vision being different in each eye. Back in the old days people just had to deal with it as their lives went to hell. Many people were legally blind their entire lives. Just look how many children wear glasses by the time they hit grammar school.

Just another reason on top of many why Intelligent design makes no sense. How is it that we are able to invent technology to fix vision problems, yet an all powerful god cannot. Yes god is so great that he gives 70% of us poor vision, and rather than fixing it or upgrading the design he makes us wait hundreds of thousands of years to invent our own fix.

And of course the religious folk will all say that you can't blame god, yada yada, but the second something goes good in their life, guess who gets the first credit and is thanked. So thank god for every single thing that is good but don't blame him for anything bad. That sounds a bit one dimensional to me. If you can thank god because the sports team you play for won, but not blame god when you lose, you are a pure hypocrite. Why would god give a rat's behind about your sports team something that has no real value in society at all.

a reply to: Prezbo369

I think you are putting words into Craigs mouth .He claims that ,how could we possibly know if it was a good or a bad thing . Would it have been a good thing if a Hitler or a Stalin could have been considered a good thing if they would have dies as a child ? Who is able to determine the outcome of good and evil playing their rolls in a life when it would be the God that has created all of this for His good purpose ? He alone knows what He wants to get out of this . Your child may not recognize the actions towards them as a act of love because it does not look like love to them but we know that correction out of love is not a bad thing as long as we see the results we as parents determine in the best interest of the ones we love as a parent .

a reply to: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing

It's easy for each one of us to drill into the nuances of differing opinions ,mainly because they may not agree with our own biases . That includes God's word .It seems that we can only come to grips with the differing opinion we have from what God says ,once we understand the subject from His perspective .Just throwing our hands into the air and saying that we disagree does nothing to get to the core of the matter .We don't like being wrong but we sure like correction when it benefits us and we can recognize it as such ..

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Moreover, if we believe, as I do, that God's grace is extended to those who die in infancy or as small children, the death of these children was actually their salvation We are so wedded to an earthly, naturalistic perspective that we forget that those who die are happy to quit this earth for heaven's incomparable joy. Therefore, God does these children no wrong in taking their lives.

No matter what spin you attempt to put on Craigs words, he is saying here that in his opinion (and yours it seems) the death of children is actually a good thing. I understand that he is attempting to explain and excuse why his God permits the death and suffering of children on a truly massive scale, but in his zeal he has removed his humanity as has anyone that wants to share his efforts....

a reply to: Krazysh0t

That concept presupposes that humans are the bodies we inhabit. If we are actually the frequency of energy that our bodies partially and temporarily possess and process, then the universe was absolutely designed for and with us...

the arrogance of man is dumbfounding. I would be happy to debate Dr. Tyson on ANY subject...

Jaden