For those that are struggling with religion: From the Non-Religious that escaped it

a reply to: Ghost147

This is a response (found here) that I wrote for another thread that I think is easier just to copy and paste than to recreate:

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Man, almost word for word (except the age of 'coming out'), this could be my story. Except my mom never lost her faith, and neither did my dad, nor my sister. I do have a cousin who walked away from the Mormon religion, but whether or not he's a true atheist, I have no knowledge because we haven't really discussed it.

My point is that I'm the only member of my family who doesn't believe. Like you, I spent my entire youth and early teenage years trying very hard to believe. I would sit in church and think about visiting all the holy sites in the Holy Land, I would cry when listening to sermons discussing the Passion, and I would daydream about how visible sun rays peaking through the clouds were escalators upon which angels would travel to and from Earth. Hell, my dad initiated and ran the AWANA program at my church, was a deacon in the church (a baptist church, mind you), and my mom was part of the choir, and I would hear her singing music from the likes of Sandi Patti (this was back in the 80s) every day of my young existence. I, too, was baptised at the age of 7--willingly. Because I wanted to believe.

But, like you, it never sprouted roots. I distanced myself from religion in high school, but not consciously--my dad was raising me on his own after the divorce, and he never made it a point to go to church. So I kind of forgot about it unless I went with my mom every other weekend. Then I joined the Army, and tried to rekindle that relationship with God--the one that I never really had to begin with--by becoming an usher in the Sunday church services during basic and advanced individual training. But still, it didn't stick.

Then I picked up a book by Zecharia Sitchin, and while I didn't buy into the whole Ancient Alien theory, per se, I was intrigued at the links between old-world religions, and how one borrowed upon the previous, which borrowed upon another, and then another, and so on back to the Sumerians (and, presumably, beyond into ancient tribes). I started researching the history of religions and the similarities and differences; when books in the Bible were actually written and by whom; at scientific explanations for things that were attributed to being miracles; at translations of original hebrew texts and how different they can be from modern versions, and so on and so forth. I have been doing this research for the past 16 years, and continue to do so with each new discovery.

I have come to the conclusion that religions are nothing more than creations by man in order to aid in creating laws and subjugation. I don't see religion necessarily as evil, but I do see how they have evolved into something much less pure than their original intent (some much more so than others). While I dismiss the divinity and supernatural-ness of the Bible, I don't dismiss the possibility that there is more to humanity than just one life and one body.

Is there a soul, or aura, or some interdimensional consciousness that exists in all of us? I can't say, but it's possible.

Is there an afterlife--no matter how similar or not to those described in modern religions? I can't say, but it's possible.

There are so many possibilities that coexist with life that we have yet to discover and quantify, and I don't close my mind off to the possibilities. But what appears to be the main difference between you and I, SR, is that I don't want to believe anymore, because I have concluded that what exists to believe in is not a realistic portrayal of what exists, and I'm certainly not going to subscribe to it just because its dogma holds my soul hostage in hell if I don't.

But, this was a very nice thread...thanks for sharing, and I'm glad I'm not alone in having been surrounded by believers, yet never being able to believe myself.

originally posted by: borntowatch
Be interesting if we saw the same thing in relation to atheism being good for the world, mao, Stalin, pol Pot, you know the list of atheist psychos.
Yes men are evil, be they religious or nonreligious.
Its a people thing not just something you can blame on religion only.

There is something very warped about your attitude, you act like a fundamentalist Christian, like a religious pharisee, you are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

Get a grip, we are all the same

The funny thing is, they did bring up all those topics you mentioned within that video. Perhaps you should watch it before belittling it?

I'll be able to respond to the other comments later, need to go to work!

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: borntowatch

Funny how you see it was the boogeyman, it was never the boogeyman I was afraid of, fear didnt motivate my change, it was love that motivated my change.

Sure about that? Or were you feeling guilt and shame, and needing someone or something to absolve you of your wrongdoing? Are you sure it was love that motivated your change? Or was it an easing of your conscience that you perceived to be love?

I was angry at the world, now just sad, sad for people just like you, people who are intolerant and selfish.

You keep throwing this accusation around hoping it will stick. The accusation doesn't become true because you have pronounced judgement on someone. You might want to look at the "beam" in your own eye, instead of the "mote" in someone else's eye. You call anyone who disagrees with you and your faith, "intolerant and selfish". Is that what it means to be a good Christian?

and seriously woodcarver you would have to be completely mindless to think anyone can cover their heads under a blanket of religion, christian atheism or whatever. There is no fantasy programing, reality is out there in here everywhere. Has someone cut your eyes out, you have a sack on your head.

People use religion and anything else they can rationalize to blanket their pain and/or conscience. Our society is replete with it. I think it is you who needs to take the sack from your head. I disagree there is no fantasy programming. Christianity is saturated with it. Nevertheless, it is not alone by any means in that respect.

The difference is that it will all be over soon, that justice will be done, evil destroyed, wounds will be healed and the broken will be repaired, made anew.

You mean when god "pours out his wrath" on the heathens, and anybody who has disagreed with you and your faith? You mean when he takes vengeance for you during the "tribulation"? Will that make you feel better, knowing that god murdered billions for you and your fellow believers? That anyone that doesn't belong to the clique doesn't deserve to live? They must be condemned and punished eternally? And yet you speak of intolerance and selfishness?

Your assumptions are so invalid it actually makes me pity you.

I don't think it is Woodcarver that needs to be pitied.

It is this kind of attitude in the church that was instrumental in my conversion from Christianity. The bible is full of intolerance for anyone outside of the groupthink.

Believe what you want
I never learned fear till after I became a christian

As for the rest of my issues, it was how I was brought up, I saw nothing wrong with my actions for the better part of my life.
I wasnt stupid enough not to think that there would be a day of justice, mans or Gods

Funny I see your intolerance towards those not in your circle

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: borntowatch
Be interesting if we saw the same thing in relation to atheism being good for the world, mao, Stalin, pol Pot, you know the list of atheist psychos.
Yes men are evil, be they religious or nonreligious.
Its a people thing not just something you can blame on religion only.

There is something very warped about your attitude, you act like a fundamentalist Christian, like a religious pharisee, you are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

Get a grip, we are all the same

The funny thing is, they did bring up all those topics you mentioned within that video. Perhaps you should watch it before belittling it?

I'll be able to respond to the other comments later, need to go to work!

Ghost I am not a catholic, I am aware of their evil, the evil of all humanity.

They well may have discussed those topics but the issue was the condemnation of catholicism.

I am no believer in the pope or the church of rome.I dont need to listen to the leader of atheism to know her sins

The topics may well have been brought up but what was the answer, was it men are evil, power hungry, violent and greedy, just brush it off or was it only the catholic church is evil

a reply to: Ghost147

As I brought up previously, one way we may be able accomplish this -in a non-aggressive manner- is by hearing how some of you have managed to find more happiness and clarity outside of religious doctrines, beliefs, and ideologies.

So I was chatting with my gods one day and brought up the question of Atheism.

I sat back and listened to their debate for a while. Finally, one of them asked me what I thought about my daughter.

I responded that I thought that she is a very well adjusted person, free of common delusions, anxieties, and illogical dread.

"Would you say that that is because she is an atheist, or would you say she is atheist because of lacking these anxieties."

The question, stated in that manner, rendered it practically rhetorical. She was atheist because she didn't need gods. There was no function for the gods to fill for her.

"And what about you? Could you be an atheist?"

I responded that I'd tried to lose my delusion, lose my anxiety, free myself to the extent needed in order to achieve such a feat. Progress is slow and sporadic.

"That's okay. No pressure. Take as long as you need. But really, it isn't mandatory. It's not like we'll abandon you just because you fail at being an atheist."

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I am happy that I do not bind my gods to predefined doctrines, beliefs, or ideologies. They can be as nice to be with as anyone I can imagine.