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To Those That Condemn Homosexuality I Ask, Where Are Your Tassels!?

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posted on May, 4 2015 @ 11:47 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Ghost147
Yes, well clearly "Natural Selection" has failed at keeping the balance as well. I said we were created to oversee the animal kingdom I didnt say we were fulfilling our purpose.


Natural selecting isn't merely about "balance", there are many cases where sporadic instances such as environmental conditions, virus' or diseases wipe out entire species. Natural selection is just a means of saying that external factors shape the way of which species is more adapted to specific situations. Disease, environment, predation, are all valuables within natural selection. What has occurred with Homo sapiens is almost identical to what we see in a virus. The initial infection, the rapid and exponential growth, and the potential devastating trail that that virus leaves behind. Yet, natural selection is still in the works.

We are wiping out species at an alarming rate. We are the introduced predators, disease, and environmental disasters that have spread into lands which other species have not really adapted to. There are some animals that have formed specific behaviors that would lead them to a much easier life in say a city, rather than in the wild. There's an abundance of waist that other organisms thrive from, yet their natural predators may not necessarily be able to live alongside them in the conditions where that waist is found.

Thus, natural selection still exists, and it hasn't shifted from it's previously mentioned traits.



originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Ghost147
Naturally, you and I disagree, but just because you misunderstand the truth doesn't make it false. Science only accounts for what we can see. What we dont see is much more important. Under the observational circumstances that you surround yourself with, homosexuality seems acceptable and humans are as animals. But try reading between the lines. Try seeing things from your Creator's perspective.


If I'm "misunderstanding the truth" you're free to refute any of the evidence I've just shown you. If you can successfully prove my points wrong, I will gladly accept a more accurate form of evaluation of the universe we live in. However, all you're supplying us with is your opinion without a basis.

I can't see things from the conception of a "creator" because I have an absence of a belief in one.


originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Ghost147
Like any sin, homosexuality is an addiction. The more one resists the temptation/craving, the less power the sin has over the mind.


So the animals I've listed are just sinning? I'm confused, if it happens outside of Homo sapien behavior, isn't that considered "natural" in your views?

Animals can't conceive the concept of religion (to our knowledge), thus there is no reason or way they can worship any supposed gods, so there is no reason for an anti-god (such as Satan) to tempt them with sinful cravings and actions. So why is it that thousands of species of ANIMALS commit homosexual behaviors?

Oh, I know, it's because Sexuality is a naturally occurring phenomena. I don't recall the time in which I mentally put my mind to it and chose to love and be attracted to the opposite gender. I most certainly don't know why anyone would choose to love and be sexually attracted to children either. Why would that occur? That's right, because sexuality is natural.




posted on May, 4 2015 @ 11:48 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Yes, I am! My mistake on trying to make a point about Old Testament, using a loaded subject like homosexuality.



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 11:52 PM
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a reply to: WakeUpBeer

They would be on a practicing Jew.

Why ask? Do you want to be inside the church? If so.. talk to Jesus..

If not.. we are free to practice our religion and believe as we will, and you are free to believe as you will.

As previously stated in this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


edit on 4-5-2015 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 11:52 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Why then did the church marry homosexual couples until the 13th century if it disapproved and it was not in accordance with Christianity?

In the 1st century there were 2 types of Eunuchs. The first was the one most are familiar with, castrated males who were typically slaves or servants with specific roles such as guarding womens quarters for concubines or personal attendants to rulers or people of great wealth. The 2nd and less widely known are "Eunuchs from birth" which was how homosexual males were referred to at the turn of the 1st millennium.

In Mathew 19:10-12 Jesus refers to Eunuchs who have been so from birth and indicates being born that way was a gift from god.

To bolster the position of many conservative Christians that homosexuality is unnatural and an abomination in the eyes of god, they often cite Jesus’ words in Matthew 19:4-5, where he responds to a question about whether divorce is permissible:


“Jesus answered, ‘Have you not read that the One who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh”? Therefore, what God has joined together, let no one separate.’ ”

From these words, some Christians draw the conclusion that heterosexuality is the creation norm and, thus, heterosexual marriage is the only legitimate way for people to form romantic relationships. Ironically, Jesus’ own words in this very same passage refute these conclusions.

As the dialogue continues, Jesus’ disciples are disturbed by his strict teaching on divorce. The disciples say that if divorce is not a ready option, perhaps it would be best for a man not to marry a woman. Jesus responds:


“Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.” (Matthew 19:11-12)

Here Jesus identifies three classes of men who should not marry women. Taking his categories in reverse order, first, there are those who have made themselves “eunuchs” for the kingdom of heaven, i.e., those who foreswear marriage to better serve God. Second, he mentions those who have been “made eunuchs by others,” an apparent reference to castrated males. But Jesus mentions a third category — eunuchs who were born that way. Some might argue that Jesus was referring to males born without testicles, but this would be extremely rare. Moreover, this interpretation ignores how the term “born eunuchs” was used in other literature of the time.

In the ancient world, including ancient Jewish culture (as reflected in the Talmud), “natural” or “born” eunuchs were not associated with missing testicles. Rather, they were associated with stereotypically effeminate characteristics and behavior (just like modern gay men). Moreover, as we have also seen, eunuchs were commonly associated with homosexual desire.

This is all in the Gospel of Mathew. If one believes that this is the divine word of Christ then how can one use scripture to rationalize condemnation of homosexuality?



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 11:58 PM
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originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

They would be on a practicing Jew.

Why ask? Do you want to be inside the church? If so.. talk to Jesus..

If not.. we are free to practice our religion and believe as we will, and you are free to believe as you will.

As previously stated in this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...



It's not that we don't want you to practice your religion, it's that some individuals who do hold these concepts about homosexuality (or equally between races and genders, among other views) is destructive and in many ways abusive to other people. As the OP was trying to say, it's a bit odd and hypocritical for these same individuals who pick out these discriminatory sections of the bible, whilst also not practicing other equally demanding conceptions within it (listed in the OP)



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 11:59 PM
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originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: Metallicus

Yes, I am! My mistake on trying to make a point about Old Testament, using a loaded subject like homosexuality.


Well, your title made it seem like it might be open for anyone.




posted on May, 5 2015 @ 12:02 AM
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a reply to: OpinionatedB

As I mentioned in the OP, and you are no doubt aware of already! Not all Christians are the same. Some of them do honestly believe those Old Testament laws are supposed to be followed. I've heard them say it in these very forums. The thread was specifically addressed to them!

While the Bible may be against homosexuality in the NT as well as the OT, it is only the OT that commands they be put to death. I could be wrong on that point. I used the verse from Leviticus because I often see it cited as evidence of God's disdain for homosexuality.

I have never seen one Christian call out condemnation for mixed fabrics, not standing up for the elderly, and most amusingly, a lack of tassels on the clothing of others. Yet we see it all the time on the homosexual debate.

So again, I am asking specifically those Christians who believe the Old Testament laws found In Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers, etc. are still to be obeyed, why they don't obey them, but will pull from them when it comes to condemning more hot button issues. Such as homosexuality.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 12:03 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Fair enough!

In retrospect I could have been more clear as to my intents.




posted on May, 5 2015 @ 12:08 AM
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a reply to: peter vlar

Thanks for the thread contribution, very interesting!



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 12:09 AM
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a reply to: Ghost147

Well said. And thanks for your contributions here as well.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 12:22 AM
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originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: Metallicus

Fair enough!

In retrospect I could have been more clear as to my intents.



It's cool, brother.

I agree about your point on Christians and I love everyone, but am not necessarily a fan of their choices. There is no one in the world I hate and I don't think I could hate someone. Life is too short.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 12:22 AM
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Jesus never said homosexuality was a sin. Christians try to back up their bigotry with the torah ("old" testament) and Paul's letters. Anything but Jesus's actual teachings.
edit on 5-5-2015 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 12:25 AM
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Just like with any other religion, Christians will quietly cross out the rules that seem pointless to them and keep the ones they like.

"I don't like this itchy beard. I'm sure the no shaving rule isn't THAT important. We can do away with that one. Men and women marrying each other personally disgusts me. This is a rule I want to keep."
edit on 5-5-2015 by Xaphan because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 12:45 AM
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a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Jesus on some of the ceremonies and dietary requirements:

10 Then Jesus called to the crowds and said, “Listen to what I say and try to understand: 11 You aren’t made unholy by eating nonkosher food! It is what you say and think that makes you unclean.”[c]

12 Then the disciples came and told him, “You offended the Pharisees by that remark.”

13-14 Jesus replied, “Every plant not planted by my Father shall be rooted up, so ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and both will fall into a ditch.”

15 Then Peter asked Jesus to explain what he meant when he said that people are not defiled by nonkosher food.

16 “Don’t you understand?” Jesus asked him. 17 “Don’t you see that anything you eat passes through the digestive tract and out again? 18 But evil words come from an evil heart and defile the man who says them. 19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, lying, and slander. 20 These are what defile; but there is no spiritual defilement from eating without first going through the ritual of ceremonial handwashing!”

edit on 5-5-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-5-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 02:46 AM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

The NT does condemn homosexuality as well, but putting the bible aside, show me a pair of homosexuals who can naturally produce a child (without any unnatural genetic modification), and I will accept homosexuality as a natural state of being.


This. This all the way.

Isn't homosexuality just, one of those things that gets people off? Like pedophilia? Is it a crime to love a goat so much, that you try everyday to have a baby with it?
What if trees get someone rowdy. Is it okay to run naked through a public park, sexually embracing every tall goreous tree you come by?
What if violent sexuality is your forte? Like a divine Rasputin in his Orgy enduced masochistic fits of enlightenment?
Is it okay to spreed thy seed upon every living thing, and to be arroused in every possible way imaginable. Without the possiblity of producing human offspring at all.

Would you call anything short a man a woman being together, A waste of valuable potencial life?

We can all have fun sure, But sex has and will always be. For the purpose of procreation. And was never intended to exist. Strictly as a lifestyle choice.

This, coming from a sexually repressed male such as myself.

Sure homosexuality is condemned but marrying an 9 year old girl when you are 30 is fine as long as it's a prophet of the lord.

With such logic it's impossible to think a prophet can be a wicked sinner and vile. Impossible. Muhammed was a great man.
Soloman was a great role model, we should all aspire to be like him.

The bible is a story, Don't take everything it says so literally. Does it take a holy scripture to know that two men cannot be parents to their own offspring, without some sort of loophole? Like adoption or growing a baby in woman or a cloning vat?

I'm not trying to be offensive here just realistic.

Sure, 2 man can be together. But to me. It's in the same league as every other possible outcome one can think of, Where life is wasted when procreation is not done between a man and a woman. If gayness is okay. Loving a goat is okay too. Just don't try to convince me such an individual was born to love a goat.

Because clearly, there is a difference between a goat and a human. And if you find this offensive. Then you havn't been on the Internet long enough. I personally think they are among some of the strangest habits a human could have. But is it a sin to God?
Wasting life in general is a sin, But that's up to you to decide if you are wasting not only your life, but other lives past present or future with your life choices.

That's about as real as this topic can, and ever will get.
edit on am5u3115Tue, 05 May 2015 03:07:24 -0500 by AnuTyr because: For emphesis



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 03:46 AM
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a reply to: AnuTyr

We have laws against Beastiality, Pedophilia, severe Sadism, and many other sexualities due to the fact they harm other beings (among other reasons).

Homosexuality is just as much of a sexuality as Heterosexuality. Conversely, so is Pedophilia and Beastiality. Do you really not care to wonder why such people have these cravings? Of course not, you decided that they are having some kind of addiction, or that they chose to do the things they do.

If you really do wonder, then you must also wonder why Heterosexuals are attracted to the opposite sex. Well all we need to do is look into the brain. Neurologically speaking, Homosexual individuals respond to the same gender sexually just as Heterosexuals respond to the opposite gender sexually.




Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait. The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex. The differences are likely to have been forged in the womb or in early infancy, says Ivanka Savic, who conducted the study at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden.

Source

Similar studies have been done to Pedophiles with the exact same outcome. Thus, Sexuality is a biological property of an individual. And when something is a Biological property of an individual, it means that it occurred genetically; which further means that it is naturally caused.

Please, learn to educate yourself instead of making embarrassingly outrageous claims when you clearly have very little knowledge on the subject due to your belief system.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 04:17 AM
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originally posted by: arpgme
Jesus never said homosexuality was a sin. Christians try to back up their bigotry with the torah ("old" testament) and Paul's letters. Anything but Jesus's actual teachings.


Yes, and then when questioned about why they don't follow every other law n the Torah, they will quickly backpedal and say they don't have to follow the old testament because Jesus and stuff. It's just more cherry picking at a religious buffet of what they like and don't like about their religion.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 05:43 AM
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We'll unsurprisingly a fair amount of Christian bigotry and hatred has been exposed....again...however..

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest



Like any sin, homosexuality is an addiction. The more one resists the temptation/craving, the less power the sin has over the mind.


One might interpret the above in a certain way that could explain this hatred....Ted Haggard springs to mind.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 06:34 AM
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I stopped reading after your very first sentence. Let me correct you.

Most heterosexuals think homosexuality is filthy and disgusting. Its a natural self defense mechanism built into us, so I don't understand why you folks are always pointing the finger at Christians.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 06:41 AM
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a reply to: Bone75

I've heard homosexuality described as such by Christians. I also don't deny that there are other people who think homosexuality is filthy and disgusting..

This thread wasn't meant to be about homosexuality... Of course I should have suspected it would become about it, merely by bringing it up.

Only one or two people have actually talked about the premise of the thread. It was to correct me on a few points. I thank them for that but it still doesn't address everything.

It's usually Christians (from my experience) pointing fingers at homosexuality, btw.

Please re-read the OP.
edit on 5-5-2015 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



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