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Woman who failed physical exam to become firefighter

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posted on May, 5 2015 @ 01:14 PM
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Getting real sick of this feminist crap. Women in the west are treated like princesses, yet still find things to complain about. Be glad you aren't living in the middle east, africa or asia where women are still considered property and treated as such.

Oh you want to do what is historically a man's job? Work out and gain the physical strength of a man so you can keep up. Like many have stated before, I don't care how smart you are, if I'm stuck in a burning building, I need you to be able to get through the flames and carry my ass out to safety!

Equality in the workplace is a noble idea, but let's face it, there are certain occupations where one gender excels above the other. I'm not knocking women, I'm not calling them weak, but it is biological fact that men are naturally sturdier than women in most cases, thus, more capable of performing high stress physical labor. Firefighting and rescue isn't a walk in the park...




posted on May, 5 2015 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: 8fl0z




Being a firefighter takes a high level of strength and fitness. Many myths persist about a woman’s inherent physical ability to perform this kind of work, because most women can’t do it. The reality, however, is that most men can’t do it either. It takes a certain kind of personality and some genetic good luck to have what it takes to get in shape and stay that way for years on end. Now that women are no longer discriminated against when applying to be firefighters, female firefighters have found their calling all over America, and they perform as competently as their male counterparts.


work.chron.com...



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: InTheLight

Most people are not firefighters.

I'm of the right mind set to be.. It's the same mind set that made me know I could be in the Army..

I can pass any test. And I WILL save you. I don't want to die, but I'm "all in" on saving a life.

Girls can be firefighters.. This is almost a dumb point to have to make as this thread is about EQUAL RIGHTS being violated in the other direction.

Girls can pass tests. I have faith in this.
Let's quit belittling girls and give them the SAME test as a man.
Problem solved already done...

This is a non issue except in the case that someone who may be underqualified (maybe) got special treatment. I won't ever champion special treatment for women unless we are going back to Knights and castles...

Pick your spot. You want to be free to Rise? Then you are free to Fall. That's ALL it could ever be.

As I said I know off the top of my head 2 girls who could carry me on their back. They are stronger than me. They would pass that test. Those girls, those Women would be better than me at being a fire fighter.

It's not like you get one shot in life.. If you miss.. Re align and try again. If you want to be a firefighter NOTHING is going to stop you. Not unless it should stop you that is. Life.. You only get the chips if you play the game.
edit on 5-5-2015 by KnightLight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 01:43 PM
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a reply to: KnightLight

The point is that they passed her for a reason and that reason is not forthcoming, but considering firefighting and surveillance is a team effort, they may have passed her for a specific position within the team that better matches her exceptional high scores in other areas.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 01:46 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: KnightLight

The point is that they passed her for a reason and that reason is not forthcoming, but considering firefighting and surveillance is a team effort, they may have passed her for a specific position within the team that better matches her exceptional high scores in other areas.



This may well be the case but I can not surmise such a thing.
Therefore.. Pass the test.
Obviously we are talking about a story that is cousins to click bait.. It's not far off, but our topic on ATS can spread beyond these bounds..

In general and I used to be on the complete opposite side... I am against ANY special treatment in the work environment. I've only ever seen special treatment lead to decay. Especially as someone who has gotten some special treatment in both directions.. It just dosn't seem like the right idea to me. Not with Serious issues.. Smaller things, almost always give the benefit of the doubt.. But when it comes to a job, and a test to make sure you can do the BASICS of the job understress... You have to pass that.. You Must.


I know tests can be discriminating.. That is their nature. I fully expect the test in question is only discriminating against those without the physical power to perform as a fire fighter. I doubt it's specifically designed against women.
edit on 5-5-2015 by KnightLight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: Domo1

This crap happens ALL the time within the military and LE world.

In my academy class, I got in trouble for stating that the dumpy 4'1" 210Lb classmate would not be able to drag me to safety, let alone scale a wall should the need arise. I was proven right during our training sessions.

Phoenix kept her on, to meet their hiring diversity numbers.

I am sure made for a great doughnut eater.


And yet we had another female, Tempe PD, that was able to pull our 230lb defensive tactics instructor to safety and was an awesome officer.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 01:57 PM
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I wonder if she'll probably do fine and we'll not hear anything more about this? Not as concerned for her or her teammates as I am for the people in this world that seem to be going mad that the Earth isn't spinning backwards. Besides - I think we're missing something relative to her ability in this story that appears tailor-made for a knee-jerk reaction.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: macman

I was in the Army and so maybe it's me seeing this as a problem..
Knowing how underqualified people can be who are failing PT tests, or just barely getting by..

Man seeing someone try to fireman carry another guy their same size.... I can hardly manage maybe 100 ft tops.. no hills or stairs or ladders.. These people including me are what you would consider very Strong people.


It's just not Safe.
My battle buddy was short and weak. In basic...
But you think he got a pass on carrying my ass out of machine gun fire (training)
Nah he got no passes and grew into his roll.
He GREW into it... He got multiple tries on tests..

He could have killed me had we been deployed together. It's the trust you build by doing things on point.. To the point there is no question this guy HAS my back in every way.. We ARE getting out of this alive.. Failing tests, and getting by?? That doesn't breed trust.


It's so insanely fair it's almost...
How is this an article???



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 02:10 PM
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originally posted by: KnightLight

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: KnightLight

The point is that they passed her for a reason and that reason is not forthcoming, but considering firefighting and surveillance is a team effort, they may have passed her for a specific position within the team that better matches her exceptional high scores in other areas.



This may well be the case but I can not surmise such a thing.
Therefore.. Pass the test.
Obviously we are talking about a story that is cousins to click bait.. It's not far off, but our topic on ATS can spread beyond these bounds..

In general and I used to be on the complete opposite side... I am against ANY special treatment in the work environment. I've only ever seen special treatment lead to decay. Especially as someone who has gotten some special treatment in both directions.. It just dosn't seem like the right idea to me. Not with Serious issues.. Smaller things, almost always give the benefit of the doubt.. But when it comes to a job, and a test to make sure you can do the BASICS of the job understress... You have to pass that.. You Must.


I know tests can be discriminating.. That is their nature. I fully expect the test in question is only discriminating against those without the physical power to perform as a fire fighter. I doubt it's specifically designed against women.


I can only surmise they wanted her for a good reason, even though we are not privy to which exact physical test she lagged (4 minutes lag) in (stair climb? gruelling!). With only 44 women firefighters within a 10,500 member organization, I doubt they have been coddling women along thus far. Perhaps the testing qualifications were excessive for most women and many men and thus needed to be revised, not just to bolster female numbers, but to update testing that may have needed it - what with updated equipment (lighter) being introduced, etc.

news.illinois.edu...

www.fireengineering.com...

edit on 5-5-2015 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 02:31 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight


I can only surmise they wanted her for a good reason, even though we are not privy to which exact physical test she lagged (4 minutes lag) in (stair climb? gruelling!).

I do wish I could speak more to this point but I don't know the firefighters. Stair climbing and being 4 minutes back... It might never come up again, but then what if it does?? 4 minutes is evidence of slowing down, not just not quite making it.. It's like when someone does a 15 minute mile.. It's not so much the difference in time as it is that they weren't or couldn't run the entire way.


With only 44 women firefighters within a 10,500 member organization, I doubt they have been coddling women along thus far.

For sure. I don't want them to start now either.



Perhaps the testing qualifications were excessive for most women and many men and thus needed to be revised, not just to bolster female numbers, but to update testing that may have needed it - what with updated equipment (lighter) being introduced, etc.

news.illinois.edu...


I doubt after all these years the testing needed to be lowered.. The only variable that could lower standards after years and years of fire fighting would be the average candidate coming through getting weaker.. Lowering standards only lowers standards.. And from my experience in the Army where they HAD TO lower standards to the barest of minimums... It's not good...



And I almost feel like we are much closer on the page than it appears by the way we are talking. It's hard to tell obviously.

I'll check out that link now.

I'm seeing your link as fire fighting equipment changing so maybe standards could change.. Lower weight on your back lower physical standards.
I see this could be a case, but in my mind I find it more likely people are not the same as 50 years ago.

I am also seeing that half the firefighters that die die of stress related to lack of oxygen or heat... Half of them die of heart attacks...

I want to test people maybe not have them have a heart attack if I can help it.. If I was in charge.

I almost can't imagine a higher stress on the body than heat and weight mixed with time constraints and smoke... That's a LOT to take on.
edit on 5-5-2015 by KnightLight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: KnightLight

If the equipment is continually getting lighter and perhaps with the invention and application of technologically advanced drones and robots sent in to do the grunt work, then it may be that brute physical strength may not be an important qualification in the future; the near future it seems.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: InTheLight

So, lower physical requirements and standards to meet diversity numbers so more females can feel good and be placed in a job that they can't physically handle?



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 02:39 PM
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originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

So, lower physical requirements and standards to meet diversity numbers so more females can feel good and be placed in a job that they can't physically handle?


That's not what I said, I said due to lighter gear and advanced technology, the existing physical requirements would need to be revised.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 02:41 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight


That's not what I said, I said due to lighter gear and advanced technology, the existing physical requirements would need to be revised.


NEED to be revised? Or COULD be if there were not enough fire fighters?

It's like currency..

You raise the price if there is demand. Demand being extra people wanting to fight fires.

If they are lowering the price.. Price being standards.. What you must "pay" to get in...

I guess there are either two options.
1) we are getting weaker (on average).
2) less people think risking their lives in a fire is a good idea for the world.


You get what you ask for. Let's ask for enough.
I very much doubt the standards have been too high this whole time.
Let's keep asking for the same men and women.
edit on 5-5-2015 by KnightLight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: InTheLight

We are talking about 10-15lbs.

If anyone, male or female gets broken by 15lbs, then we have an issue.

It has to do with overall conditioning and the strength of a person.

If he or she can't carry a 190lb person to safety, then they can't do their job.

As the average weight of the US person rises, it washes out the weight reduction of equipment.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

We are talking about 10-15lbs.

If anyone, male or female gets broken by 15lbs, then we have an issue.

It has to do with overall conditioning and the strength of a person.

If he or she can't carry a 190lb person to safety, then they can't do their job.

As the average weight of the US person rises, it washes out the weight reduction of equipment.



If that be the case, then the existing male firefighters would not be able to carry/drag a person to safety either. Therefore, they would have to work together as a team or use technology to assist them with saving very large people.

Where did you get the 15 lbs from?

patch.com...
edit on 5-5-2015 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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originally posted by: KnightLight

originally posted by: InTheLight


That's not what I said, I said due to lighter gear and advanced technology, the existing physical requirements would need to be revised.


NEED to be revised? Or COULD be if there were not enough fire fighters?

It's like currency..

You raise the price if there is demand. Demand being extra people wanting to fight fires.

If they are lowering the price.. Price being standards.. What you must "pay" to get in...

I guess there are either two options.
1) we are getting weaker (on average).
2) less people think risking their lives in a fire is a good idea for the world.


You get what you ask for. Let's ask for enough.
I very much doubt the standards have been too high this whole time.
Let's keep asking for the same men and women.


Well, there is a very good reason they passed her and it wasn't for numbers. I surmise she excelled in areas where others' may have been lacking for some time and perhaps this is where they needed to meet a deficiency.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight


If he or she can't carry a 190lb person to safety, then they can't do their job.





It's hard enough trying to get a 150lb person even off the ground... Course the body armor made it harder..


The Army's version as I bet you know is keep testing UNTIL they pass..


I'm keeping my standards high for all of YOU.


We don't have to roll over as a race.



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 02:54 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight

Well, there is a very good reason they passed her and it wasn't for numbers. I surmise she excelled in areas where others' may have been lacking for some time and perhaps this is where they needed to meet a deficiency.


I think that's best case scenario. I don't think it's likely.
If it was a guy this wouldn't even be an article.

I think that standards are being lowered, not to get better people who live up to higher standards, but maybe just because... I would be trying to get more girls in. More women. I would, but I wouldn't bend any rules.. Maybe I would give the women more attention to try to get more of them at the right level to do the job.. Encourage them more.. This wouldn't be fair to the men, but at least the standards would still exist.

I would keep raising standards until the number of qualified applicants fits the number of openings.. I am very much of the opinion this same force is at work here.. It's just going the other way.. Lower the standards. Get more....

I expect to keep seeing these half fake stories similar to this one.. Trying to get us all to be more civil.... The article was obviously not written for my consumption.


edit on 5-5-2015 by KnightLight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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originally posted by: KnightLight

originally posted by: InTheLight

Well, there is a very good reason they passed her and it wasn't for numbers. I surmise she excelled in areas where others' may have been lacking for some time and perhaps this is where they needed to meet a deficiency.


I think that's best case scenario. I don't think it's likely.
If it was a guy this wouldn't even be an article.

I think that standards are being lowered, not to get better people who live up to higher standards, but maybe just because... I would be trying to get more girls in. More women. I would, but I wouldn't bend any rules.. Maybe I would give the women more attention to try to get more of them at the right level to do the job.. Encourage them more.. This wouldn't be fair to the men, but at least the standards would still exist.

I would keep raising standards until the number of qualified applicants fits the number of openings.. I am very much of the opinion this same force is at work here.. It's just going the other way.. Lower the standards. Get more....

I expect to keep seeing these half fake stories similar to this one.. Trying to get us all to be more civil.... The article was obviously not written for my consumption.



Or, with new lighter technology/gear they are looking to improve their ranks in other areas.



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