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Some people and my country.

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posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: JUhrman

good point, not sure what to do.




posted on May, 6 2015 @ 11:25 AM
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p.s. not sure how the federal reserve could be a mysterious club, other than the fact they won't tell us who is on their board, benefiting from putting the world in the poor house.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 03:07 AM
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originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Bluesma




Blame is for those obsessed with morality and use it to coerce and manipulate others using guilt.



no what happened was you realized pointing fingers is a mirror trick (fingers point back), so you smacked the mirror, splintered it a few times so it wasn't as easy to be blamed yourself, and then pretended you occupied some higher ground in which you could claim whole groups of people were to blame for whatever, based on whatever, but you, yourself, are not guilty of the same because "fill in the blank". cognizant dissonance on steroids. don't make me quote ya.

did you vote these people into office? i didn't. i have been on voters strike since jimmy carter.


-I have used the word "we" repeatedly, and I meant it! It includes me!!

-I went into a very long description of my difficult realization that I was complacent, passive, obedient... that I was holding and behaving under beliefs that kept me from having any sense of power and responsibility in the actions of my government and military.

-I claim WE (as a collective, including myself) are responsible for our lack of action and influence upon our government and financial institutions. (not to blame, but right now, responsible.)

-I claim that spending our time defending ourselves individually does not increase solidarity, which is what we need to gain power as a nation of peoples.

-I claim that the concept that we cannot love our country if we have any criticism of our governments choices and actions is FALSE.

You don't vote? That is a great way of avoiding responsibility. I guess you are really just trying to avoid "blame" ? I feel sympathetic, it must be hard to live with fear of blame. I feel sorry if you are surrounded by a community that is into blame games and guilt manipulation.

But not all of us do, there are even communities in the US that do not share that paradigm, and since they embrace responsibility, they feel they are in a position to also use critical thinking in relation to their government. It is necessary for their decision making in things like voting.

If you don't vote, and prefer to remain passive in that process, than I understand and respect your choice to refrain from critical examinations of what is going on. There are lot that would say "if you aren't going to participate, then shut up and put up" , crude, but not without some value.

But not everyone is in the same position or making the same choices.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 03:45 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma

i think it's irresponsible to pick a side without sufficient data to make that choice. do you feel you have been apprised in all the necessary factoids you would've needed to know to make informed choices?
edit on 7-5-2015 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 03:47 AM
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originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Bluesma

i think it's irresponsible to pick a side without sufficient data to make that choice. do you feel you have been apprised in all the necessary factoids you would've needed to know to make informed choices?


Nothing prevents you from searching for more data.

It's part of being an independent, critical thinking adult.


You don't know all the facts about the food you buy and yet you don't stop eating because of that. Am I wrong?


Honestly, we do get your position, but you are trying so hard for the last pages to absolve yourself from any possible blame. Bluesma is correct, you do sound like someone who has some unresolved issue with guilt and blame.
edit on 7-5-2015 by JUhrman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 03:54 AM
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originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Bluesma

i think it's irresponsible to pick a side without sufficient data to make that choice. do you feel you have been apprised in all the necessary factoids you would've needed to know to make informed choices?


Nothing prevents you from searching for more data.

It's part of being an independent, critical thinking adult.


You don't know all the facts about the food you buy and yet you don't stop eating because of that. Am I wrong?


let me clear one thing up first:
what is your stake in addressing my voting record if you're a belgian in belgium or a german in belgium or what the heck? see this is just the kind of # i'm talking about -- people trying to dictate to me what to do with my brain, whilst being just a figure in a media outlet (ats, for example), who thinks i should be reprimanded for politicians i didn't even f'in vote for. ya done pissed me off again.

and searching for more data would not have provided me clue one about bush's motives when he said, hey, let's go to afghanistan and get bin laden, then once there, we can hop over to iraq. pretty sure that was nowhere on the internet till he declared it.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 04:01 AM
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a reply to: undo

You get super defensive again despite the fact that I haven't made any remark aimed at you personally regarding your right to refuse to vote.

I just wanted to give another perspective than your depressed look on life again.

I think you should maybe take some time off this thread if you seriously take so much offense from my posts and Bluesma's.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 04:06 AM
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originally posted by: JUhrman
a reply to: undo

You get super defensive again despite the fact that I haven't made any remark aimed at you personally regarding your right to refuse to vote.

I just wanted to give another perspective than your depressed look on life again.

I think you should maybe take some time off this thread if you seriously take so much offense from my posts and Bluesma's.


well you did try to pin the blame of the UN voting record of american politicians, on me and other americans, by saying i / we should be actively protesting it. i can't speak for other people but i can speak for myself: i'm too old, too sick and i didn't vote for the guys you're complaining about, in the first place.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 04:09 AM
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originally posted by: undo
well you did try to pin the blame of the UN voting record of american politicians, on me



No.

Stop taking everything personally.

Seriously. It's tiring.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 04:10 AM
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originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: undo
well you did try to pin the blame of the UN voting record of american politicians, on me



No.

Stop taking everything personally.

Seriously. It's tiring.


whether you realize it or not, people are individuals, not large boxes of stereotypes.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 04:14 AM
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originally posted by: undo
whether you realize it or not, people are individuals, not large boxes of stereotypes.


That's exactly what I mean when I say you shouldn't take any criticism about a country in general as a personal criticism.
edit on 7-5-2015 by JUhrman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 04:14 AM
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originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Bluesma

i think it's irresponsible to pick a side without sufficient data to make that choice. do you feel you have been apprised in all the necessary factoids you would've needed to know to make informed choices?


No, I don't feel ever 100% confident. In ALL things, there are always unknown factors, I NEVER know every angle and aspect.
I try to gather as much information as I can, and then I just have to see what emerges, and deal with the consequences.
I don't have any hope of being perfect or making perfect decisions. Mistakes are a part of life. This is why I see no interest in dwelling upon blame - everyone is always doing the best they can, with what they know. That includes the americans before me.

All we can do is try to learn as we go along, not only as individuals, but as a collective whole. We cannot learn from our ancestors choices if we refuse to acknowledge them. But check out what happened and then move on back into NOW. Spending time trying to make them feel guilty for having made a mistake.... What does that serve?



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 04:16 AM
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for at least a generation, very few americans voted in elections, primarily because they had to deal with the media completely ignoring them, which effected the success of any candidates. here's a more recent example:



when we try to vote for people that we think better fits our personal world views, they don't get anywhere near the final showdown. yet we get blamed for the end results.

like i said before: damned if you do, damned if you don't



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 04:20 AM
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originally posted by: undo
yet we get blamed for the end results.


No you don't.

My criticism regarding the UN vetoes were clearly for the American governments.

My criticism to the Americans in general (not you personally of course, nor plenty of Americans who do participate in social activism) is the lack of motivation to participate in the political life (yet always complaining about the government online).

It's easy to complain about something.

It takes some effort to make it change though. I know, effort...



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 04:30 AM
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a reply to: JUhrman

i think what you're suggesting or have said elsewhere in the thread, is that americans are essentially lazy and don't care about the plight of the palestinians. i, personally, care about everybody. i don't blame them for being upset, cause they are in the same predicament the rest of us are in: we are missing huge amounts of data, pertinent to us as individuals, thus resulting in uninformed choices. if we had all the data, we could make real choices.

this video is for you. i mean FOR YOU, not as a stereotype, but as an individual




posted on May, 7 2015 @ 04:31 AM
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undo-

I realize I may have hit sensitive spots with my criticism of the baby boomers, the "I" generation. I am sorry if that came off as harsh. Perhaps I should have worded things differently.

Part of that point was that I don't blame my parents generation for the choices they made- I see how it evolved and what they had in mind, and were trying to do- and it had some beneficial effects, culturally.

But I do see the negative effects too, and I try to learn from that.
I know many X generation people who have taken in their parents in the last few years, because they lost all their savings in the last crash. I have flown back twice to take care of my father, because he went from being well off, with a good savings, to having close to nothing and bad health issues.

They did not take me in when I was pregnant in my early twenties, single and homeless, they said I was to blame for my position and I had to suffer the consequences. I could do the same to them now. But I wouldn't. I don't feel they need to be punished for mistakes- mistakes are expected in life. We cannot avoid them- except by refusing to try, and remaining frozen.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 04:34 AM
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originally posted by: undo
i think what you're suggesting or have said elsewhere in the thread, is that americans are essentially lazy and don't care about the plight of the palestinians. i, personally, care about everybody.


You really have a problem with the concept of "Americans in general", right?

For your information, you are not "Americans in general".


And if you think I'm the only one to think Americans are more apathetic today than before regarding politics:

www.activistpost.com...


Somehow the citizens of other countries still know how to slap the government back into its place. When an officer killed a young man in Greece, the country rioted against the police force for two weeks. The entire country got up and made a stand, without even being asked to. They didn’t know this kid, nor did they care about him personally. They cared about the fact that he was murdered by a police officer, and they needed to let the government know this act of aggression was intolerable. This resulted in 14 days of the police fearing for their lives and begging for the Greek citizens' forgiveness. When was the last time we saw police begging for forgiveness in the USA?

Somehow the citizens of England and France know how to fight back as well; take a look at what college students did in the UK when they raised tuition fees. From my recollection tuition fees have gone up every year in the US, for the past 10 years or so. I don’t think anyone has said or done anything about it. We just grovel at how expensive college has become and cut a check. And you all remember France right? They had days of fighting back against the establishment for passing unpopular benefit cutting packages. Looking at the published stats, 1 out of every 3 citizens was on the street taking action. They cut off fuel lines to the airport, effectively shutting down flights out of Paris International. When the government tried to get truckers to bring in fuel via an outside route, protesters stopped them, and the truckers joined the protest.

How is it that other countries that spend more time sleeping and relaxing than we do, can suddenly snap into action and defeat the government whenever they need to? As soon as the hand reaches too far, they band together, fight back, and let the authorities know that the power lies with the people; reminding them that they rule by the consent of the governed, not the other way around.

Somehow, resistance to tyranny takes place in other countries around the world, instinctively. No one organizes it; the people just react accordingly when they see their liberties being violated. Why doesn’t this happen in the USA? Are people that much more afraid here than in every other country in the world? Or are they simply lazy? Or just apathetic? Whatever the cause is, it’s made me lose hope that the people will ever win a “victory” over the tyrannical government.

edit on 7-5-2015 by JUhrman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 04:41 AM
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originally posted by: JUhrman


No you don't.

My criticism regarding the UN vetoes were clearly for the American governments.

My criticism to the Americans in general (not you personally of course, nor plenty of Americans who do participate in social activism) is the lack of motivation to participate in the political life (yet always complaining about the government online).

It's easy to complain about something.

It takes some effort to make it change though. I know, effort...


I think something only another american can understand in this is the way we feel pressure to be perfect, to be the best in everything we do, to be "a winner", a champion or nothing.
It is huge. Failure or mistakes are unacceptable, and seen as letting down your family, your school, your community, your country!

I was shocked to see how easily people in France would say they failed an important concours, test, examination.... or that they were incapable in an area they set out on. They weren't ashamed, and they were met with responses of okay, so..what will you try next?
There was no punishing blame that they were lazy, that they didn't try enough.

This is a very influencial factor, and to europeans this comes off as being pure egotistical pride. But it is coming from the original idea that each individuals success or movement forward is "one for the team"- it brings them all forward.
Likewise, each mistake and step back brings them all a step back. There is an element of social conscience there.
This causes us to fear making mistakes or failures to a huge extent.

This is something to be aware of when addressing our apparent fear of trying.
edit on 7-5-2015 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 04:52 AM
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originally posted by: Bluesma
Failure or mistakes are unacceptable


You pretty much put the finger on one of the main problems.

Failures and mistakes are necessary for learning and growing up. Ignoring this and treating them like shameful things is a recipe for disaster.



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 05:00 AM
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a reply to: JUhrman

all i hear when i read your posts is blame, stereotypes and accusations that we just aren't good enough for the rest of the planet. this is being done on purpose, as i have outlined earlier in the thread. you are supposed to think we're awful so that when we are destroyed you will feel it was a good thing and now the world can go back to being peaceful and moral. problem is, the guys fomenting all of the things you don't like about america, are not americans. they are globalists. and when we're outta the way (they owe us alot of money), they will already have another war machine, fully loaded, waiting in the wings.



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