Some people and my country.

originally posted by: undo

anyway, explain this

Explain a politician making commentary that appeals to the people he is trying to impress?
That doesn't need much explaining. That is what they do. We applauded beauty pageant contestants dreams of world peace, we were outspoken about world peace desires during the 70's, you can still see people proclaiming that to be their ultimate dream....it is no surprise that politicians will respond to that and promise it.

Yes, there are powerful people in the world, though I doubt they are as organized together as is being claimed- I suspect they are each looking out for themselves; but our difference in view on that aside, these videos state the same thing as the poster you have been vehemently arguing against! That we as a mass, have become complacent.

Erupting into violent denial at any suggestion of a criticism just supports that all the better. Belief that "there is nothing we can do, we are powerless against them" serves them, the belief that everyone else around the world are exactly like us, serves that better.....belief that "herd mentality" is to be rejected under all costs, freedom of the individual, likewise sacred... these are the tools and methods for depriving the masses of power.

If I was trying to dominate a bunch of people, I would certainly preach these things to them, to keep them from getting together to use their collective force!

Whoever you consider the masters to be, why choose to play their game?

You say, we can do nothing, we are powerless. I admit we have create a situation in which it is rather tricky - we have become victims of our own creation. Let's be creative and look around at how peoples in other countries respond to and avoid such situations.... let's brainstorm then- perhaps we don't want to copy exactly anyone else (all solutions must be tailored to our own specific culture and context) but the first step would be to take a look around; take the blinders off, drop the violent denials that there is a problem.

Instead of calling any sort of protest "war"', why not consider what a peaceful protest is?
I've noticed that one thing that works really well here is when people go on strike all over the country. All the public transport, the truckers, go on strike, and everyone in the country supports them. All the circulation in the country stops flat! People can't work, stores and gas stations have no stock. This can never continue too long without those in power giving in. But- it takes a value on solidarity, on collective force, to do it.
So maybe we cannot achieve that yet, we have knee jerk reactions against that concept. Perhaps we can start slowly considering teaching our next generation different values than those? In hope that they might be able to do what we can't someday?

I don't know. That is just an idea thrown on the table, it can be scrapped. But the very first step has to be to stop running from honest self evaluation.

a reply to: Bluesma

here's my honest self-evaluation:

i get up, i think, dang i feel like i've been hit by a truck. i take steps to alleviate that.
i get up the next day and think, dang i feel like i've been hit by a truck, i take steps to alleviate that.
this goes on every day. i spend most of my time, doing absolutely nothing because i'm that sick.
and there ALOT of people, with the same exact problems i have. what do you want these people to do?

a reply to: undo

So you may be old and sick or handicapped. There are a LOT that aren't in the US!
Maybe if you cannot physically do anything yourself, perhaps you can hear the "we" in these posts as talking about the collective you are part of, and not you the individual?

Perhaps (if you are really focused on self evaluation only as an individual, and not as a collective body) you could not try to shut down the younger and more able bodied people from examining the collective problems, challenges, and possible solutions? If you don't have the energy to actually take part in that intellectual work, you could at least refrain from obstructing it.
(Though some of your posts sounded extremely energetic and emotional.....if you've got enough energy for that, I find it hard to believe you don't have enough of it to participate in a positive way....)

a reply to: Bluesma

well with nearly 30% jobless rate, about the only thing people can do right now, is exist, barely. you know that saying: when people get hungry enough they will protest and riot? yet we see people starving to death all over the world with nary a protest or riot. they are too ill from lack of proper nutrition, mental and emotional illness, and a government and school system, that tells them constantly that they suck for any number of reasons, least of which is blaming them for stuff that happened decades to centuries ago, or stuff that billionaries manage to do on the world stage, that we are then blamed for.

you know what it reminds me of? old testament crap where all women were blamed for what eve did (supposedly) and not just for a generation but for as long as necessary in order to manipulate the social environment, inperpetuity, in fact.

a reply to: undo

The median age in Belgium is 42. The median age in the US is 37.

Please, the US are not full of old people. Belgium is. And yet people in Belgium never stop protesting when needed.

It's time you stop looking for excuses. I never said YOU should protest or go on strike. I'm talking about your country. And no the police doesn't kill people marching or going on strike. This is ridiculous.

We get it, you are sick and old. But please stop spreading your apathy around saying there is nothing ypu can do.

It's a lie, and it's a lie helping those in power.

You don't want to be their accomplice do you?


You've got to get out of your head that protesting means riot and violence. It's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about peaceful marches, petitions, strikes, information. You say people are jobless? Good! More time for social activism.

a reply to: Bluesma

What a fitting avatar you have ;-)

The Strength!

a reply to: JUhrman

and what do you think will happen? do you think the guys who vote on issues in the un, will suddenly have a change of heart? they know they don't have to, because the people can't do anything about it. instead, the people will protest, some will get thrown in jail and so forth, like always, and nothing will change. what kind of protesting do you suggest we do, magical fairy land protesting? like protesting the fed in nearly every major city did diddly squat. the more we threaten to topple their power structure, the more they rile up the inner city people against the rest of the nation. they got us in a catch 22, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

a reply to: undo

If it wasn't working, why people all over the globe but the US do it and obtain changes from their government.

This is depressing talking to you, like you have lost all hope.

Bluesma is correct, you have no idea what happens in the rest of the world and think everyone think and act like americans do.

Sorry, we don't

originally posted by: JUhrman
a reply to: undo

If it wasn't working, why people all over the globe but the US do it and obtain changes from their government.

This is depressing talking to you, like you have lost all hope.

Bluesma is correct, you have no idea what happens in the rest of the world and think everyone think and act like americans do.

Sorry, we don't

i don't know, i just know what happens here. remember, before the fed took us over, we were not a warlike nation. we were more like canada.

have you seen this video? you should watch this whole thing, particularly the end

as far as i can tell , this is the timeline:

woodrow wilson sells us out to the federal reserve bank.

they enact taxes under their branch called the irs, which they sell to the american people under the guise of helping the poor and maintaining public works.

we have no idea how much money they are actually making because no one is allowed to audit the federal reserve.

they secretly fund the bolsheviks and hitler, then send our guys over to fight them under false pretenses. my uncle got a purple heart during ww2, but died in the process.

then, they skim a portion of the taxes off the top and give it to poor minorities, and use the rest to fund wars and build bases around the world.

they make sure the amount given to the poor minorities, is actually not enough to be truly helpful and set about turning the haves against the have nots and vice-a-versa. the very people who's work is being taxed, illegally, are blamed for the lack of funds to the poor. cloward piven all the way.

they convince the american people to give them even more money in the guise of old age insurance,which they call social security.

slowly but surely they enact more and more socialist policies, which have as their driving machinery, crony capitalism. the intent being to ruin our economy so that the huge amount of poor will demand a solution.

as they did in south africa, they point at the caucasian population as the bad guy, who the federal gov owes billions of dollars in retirement monies and social security checks. we have a mammoth elderly population preparing to draw social security and the federal banks don't want to pay it.

the original secret service programs (2), skyrocket to some 300 separate three letter agencies, many of which most people have never heard about.

meanwhile, they are going around the world doing who the hell knows what, and little old ladies sitting in church pews here in the usa, are blamed for it. you can't make this # up.

originally posted by: undo

meanwhile, they are going around the world doing who the hell knows what, and little old ladies sitting in church pews here in the usa, are blamed for it.

The population of the USA is not made up of little old ladies sitting in churches. "Blame" is a useless game. "Responsibility" is more down to earth and effective. Telling the younger people they shouldn't acknowledge or do anything about the current state of affairs, because it makes the older people feel guilty, is just not rational, from my point of view.

Now we have the X gens coming into their fifties and the most powerful time of their lives. They are rather used to their parents "me first, think of ME" attitudes. They will probably be fine with not dwelling upon whose fault it is that things are where they are. It's a generation that does what they have to do, no matter what the risks and dangers involved, and no matter whose fault it is. They already know they'll have no social security, no retirement left. That was predicted long ago, and frankly, we're kinda used to sucking it up in order to protect our parents sensitive and hungry egos.

I suspect that in the next few years, you might see some attempts at real change- and that is what I think the current government is scared about, and why they are doing so much to prepare in case of an insurgence. The "No Future" aging punk rockers are going to crash the party.
They are used to not being allowed to think of their own well being....but now, they've got kids. They are going to put them first and take whatever risks to themselves they have to, to create a different situation for their kids and grandkids.

That might be violent protests, but somehow I doubt it. It might be a total surprise in the next presidential elections, it might be the kind of protest european style- not parading in the streets, just masses refusing to work, Ghandi style. Or masses going off grid and refusing to further take part in the consumerism. I don't know.

But wasting time on blame is the last concern. Action and motivating others to see, care and participate is more pressing.

a reply to: Bluesma

okay that was a complete crock. more eve did it so you're all guilty, bull#

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Bluesma

okay that was a complete crock. more eve did it so you're all guilty, bull#

What is your obsession with guilt??? I am not interested in going back over the past to determine through which steps, and by whose fault things got to where they are! YOU are the one doing that! I don't care if it was your generations "fault", nor even if it the "fault" of this mysterious globalist club you point at.


I am interested in NOW. Realistically looking at what are situation is, and what we'd like it to be, and what possible ways we might get from A to Z.

originally posted by: Bluesma

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Bluesma

okay that was a complete crock. more eve did it so you're all guilty, bull#

What is your obsession with guilt??? I am not interested in going back over the past to determine through which steps, and by whose fault things got to where they are! YOU are the one doing that! I don't care if it was your generations "fault", nor even if it the "fault" of this mysterious globalist club you point at.

follow me here, bluesma, i know you're intelligent:

all women are idiots
all black people are idiots
all men are rapists
all jews are greedy
all muslims are terrorists
all americans are violent/racist/etc
all liberals are communists
all communists are nice/evil
all conservatives are fascists
all fascists are evil/nice
all white people are racist
etc

and now for the finely-tuned blame game:

all generation x-ers are lazy
all baby boomers are greedy
all socialists care/don't care about people
all non-socialists don't care/care about people

AD F'IN NAUSEUM

if you can't figure it out by now, that it is just hate speech to corral human slaves, you need to take off your thinking cap and remove the data stick labelled "politics"

get this: i'm a white female american somewhat conservative, more moderate, slightly liberal, christian with an unusual approach to all things biblical / ancient history. this immediately makes me supposedly guilty of just about everything, no matter how far back in history one has to go to pull that damn rabbit outta the hat. i attain by osmosis apparently, the guilt for stuff that was done by someone else, often times by people/individuals who were nothing like me at all.

THAT is why i'm resistant to feeling guilty over what is happening to palestinians in the united nations. i am not the one making those damn choices.

the first and last president i voted for was jimmy carter, and when i saw what happened during his presidency, i just threw my arms up in the air in exasperation and said "okay, this is way over my head. there's crap going on here that i can't reasonably make rational choices on, therefore i will no longer vote until i am made privy to what is actually going on". and since that has yet to happen, i will continue to not vote cause i'm not going to be blamed for that #

originally posted by: undo

if you can't figure it out by now, that it is just hate speech to corral human slaves, you need to take off your thinking cap and remove the data stick labelled "politics"

I will repeat what I said earlier- the catagorizing of any criticism as "hate" is a purely american belief- practice.
I used to do that too, and it made me overreact and get upset at any slight suggestion someone might be getting close to making a critical remark - because, I thought, that means they are "hating".

(of course, that assumption implies that a person cannot criticize someone they love, they must idealize them and perceive as perfect).

I have lost that belief system. I see faults and weaknesses in myself and those I love, and it doesn't make me love them less- even when I say it outloud.

So the "hate speech" form of manipulation doesn't effect me any more.

Generalizations do not, by definition, apply to all individuals of the referred group. A generalization refers to a majority proportion of the group. In most cases that can be measured and defined as a fact.

Any individual within that group could be in the minority, and it will not apply to them. That does not eliminate the validity of the generalization.

Stating "how things are" is not about blame. Blame is for religious fanatics who are concerned with who gets to go to heaven and who doesn't; who deserves to be loved and who deserves to be hated. Blame is for those obsessed with morality and use it to coerce and manipulate others using guilt.

This talk of "hate speech" and blame and guilt is what gives the peoples of other countries the image that we are religious fanatics, moralistic bigots, and terribly unpragmatic.

If you would like them to not perceive that about us, let's switch the discussion onto what is wrong with our system right now and what might be done to change it. I won't respond to your unecessary, self rightious defense of your self further.
If you don't like strangers thinking americans are like that, then why show it to them?

a reply to: Bluesma

Blame is for those obsessed with morality and use it to coerce and manipulate others using guilt.

no what happened was you realized pointing fingers is a mirror trick (fingers point back), so you smacked the mirror, splintered it a few times so it wasn't as easy to be blamed yourself, and then pretended you occupied some higher ground in which you could claim whole groups of people were to blame for whatever, based on whatever, but you, yourself, are not guilty of the same because "fill in the blank". cognizant dissonance on steroids. don't make me quote ya.

did you vote these people into office? i didn't. i have been on voters strike since jimmy carter.

eh i apologize. it's not your fault. believe whatever you want.

for the op:

you should see this (watch till the end, no matter what you think of glenn beck, this is important information)

originally posted by: Bluesma
let's switch the discussion onto what is wrong with our system right now and what might be done to change it.

Undo, do you think you can do that? Not that it's not interesting to know about how you feel about the situation, but it's been a few pages now and I think we got the message.

Maybe if some people want to discuss how to make the situation better you could let them do instead of telling them it's stupid and useless?

What good are all those conspiracy video you post all the time? You think they make people feel like they have the power to change things? Or they make people angry and feeling powerless and depressed? Think about it. It's your input in this thread after all.


Will you be the one empowering others or the one wallowing in despair?