Escaped to Texas: Charlie Hebdo

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Annee

NO RELIGION controls me.

Exactly

Not all Muslims are trying to control you, anymore than all Christians are trying to control you

People are still entitled to their beliefs - without being persecuted or held accountable for the crimes of a few

1 or 10,000 - - - NO RELIGION or Religious Belief or individual with a belief - - - controls me.

What the hell are you talking about?

No One is being persecuted - - - - unless it is those who lost their lives presenting satire.

a reply to: Annee

No One is being persecuted - - - - unless it is those who lost their lives presenting satire.

This group in Texas is not Charlie Hebdo

You're not interested in them. Or their history. This doesn't leave us a lot of room for discussion

I've already defended their right to say and do as they please, but they're no less a hate group than Westboro

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Annee

No One is being persecuted - - - - unless it is those who lost their lives presenting satire.

This group in Texas is not Charlie Hebdo

You're not interested in them. Or their history. This doesn't leave us a lot of room for discussion

I've already defended their right to say and do as they please, but they're no less a hate group than

It does not matter if they are Charlie or someone else.

They are not the ones demanding I follow a belief by not drawing their God.

I don't care what their belief is. And they can not force me to honor their belief by not drawing their God.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis

You're not interested in them. Or their history.

Actually I did read about Ms Geller.

She claims to be anti-political and extremist Islam.

In other words ----- no Islam religion in government. Same here. No religion in government. That includes Christian.

a reply to: Annee
She goes a bit further than that - let's just say I'm not a fan
en.m.wikipedia.org...

The Southern Poverty Law Center named SIOA an anti-Muslim hate groupin February 2011,[18] calling it a "propaganda powerhouse" that paints moderate Muslims as radical terrorists.[10] The Anti-Defamation League also lists it as a hate group, saying that it "promotes a conspiratorial anti-Muslim agenda under the guise of fighting radical Islam" and "seeks to rouse public fears by consistently vilifying the Islamic faith and asserting the existence of an Islamic conspiracy to destroy 'American' values."

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Southern Policy Law Center?

Really.

They are as left wing as you can get. The MSNBC of advocacy organizations.

The same idiots who put the NRA and gun owners who protest magazine limits on their HATEWATCH.
www.splcenter.org...

For more than a hundred years the NRA promoted sportsmanship and responsible gun ownership — period. But since extremists seized control in 1977, the organization has forced a stranglehold on Congress while promoting the myth that the Second Amendment was enacted to facilitate armed rebellion against our own government, should it become tyrannical. I support the right to own guns, but we don’t need 30 rounds in a semi-automatic weapon — or a well-armed militia — to bag a deer. I draw the line when my fellow citizens turn their homes into armories and begin training for insurrection. We used to call that treason.

They have as much legitimacy as the CPUSA.ORG (Communist Party USA)

a reply to: infolurker

Well, we all have that line in the sand - don't we?

:-)

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Annee
She goes a bit further than that - let's just say I'm not a fan
en.m.wikipedia.org...

The Southern Poverty Law Center named SIOA an anti-Muslim hate groupin February 2011,[18] calling it a "propaganda powerhouse" that paints moderate Muslims as radical terrorists.[10] The Anti-Defamation League also lists it as a hate group, saying that it "promotes a conspiratorial anti-Muslim agenda under the guise of fighting radical Islam" and "seeks to rouse public fears by consistently vilifying the Islamic faith and asserting the existence of an Islamic conspiracy to destroy 'American' values."

You're religious, aren't you.

I'm well aware of the SPLC. What does that have to do with drawing a pic of Mohammed?

Have I defended this group? Or have I defended the right not to be controlled by any religion?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Making fun of Mohammed makes people laugh. But some people can't deal with their dead church leader being made fun of, so they feel compelled to kill people over it. Maybe the Catholic Church should find some text that says its offensive and "not okay" to make fun of the pope of priests, and that Catholics need to kill whomever does so. You know, since they're church leaders and all.

Bottom line: one is "hate speech" because a group says so. One is "comedy" because the target group doesn't tell its followers to off people over it.

it seems 2 guys opened fire and have been killed by police, it's on the news.

a reply to: Annee

You're religious, aren't you.

THAT requires a: LOL

Honestly Annee - is that a question - or an accusation? :-)

Have I defended this group? Or have I defended the right not to be controlled by any religion?

Have I accused you - of anything? Read back through my posts - this began with you asking me how this is hate speech

I've explained my thinking. Not that you would be expected to know my position on all things here at ATS, but one thing is for sure - I can reliably be expected to defend Muslims from the relentless hostility that comes from Islamaphobes - political or otherwise. It doesn't matter. Hate is hate - persecution comes in many forms and from many different angles

In fact - I have and will continue to defend the rights of all people to believe what they want to believe. Not that the Christians have noticed - or that they care :-)

People should be able to live their lives - so long as they don't try to legislate their personal rules into the lives of everyone else. Pretty simple really

I don't hate religious folk

No Annee - I am not even a little bit religious. Do I need to be to defend religious people?

I am as consistently atheist as you are - but apparently in a different flavor

What an interesting turn of events

a reply to: Shamrock6

No, one is comedy because they brought it on themselves.

If i were part of a group of 100 men, and 5 were found to be child molesters, i would be horrified. But if the hierarchy of that group had known about it, helped cover it up, and never cared to hold anyone accountable for it...i would leave that group. And if i didn't, it would be reasonably assumed by the general public that my participation represented my approval.

Now...if someone were to make a special night where only catholic priests would be made fun of...i would think it stupid. Mean for the sake of mean, especially mean being made a spectacle, is pointless and benefits no one. As we see from that nights events/shooting. So in that much I could agree with you.

And to be even more honest, I could care less about folks making fun of Mohammed. I think being offended is the problem of the person who is offended. But there really is no room in the discussion for Catholic Priests. Unfortunately, because of the systemic nature of the problems being talked about, there is that "guilt by association" thing that anyone choosing to be a priest will just have to learn to live with. At least, until the system they work for has gained some public trust back.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Anything can be comedy. One is deemed offensive and not comedy because the group that it targets says its offensive to them. To argue that Mohammed isn't a symbol of the perversion of Islam while arguing that catholic priests are a symbol of perversion of Catholicism is two sides of the same coin. Priests are a symbol. Mohammed is a symbol. By your logic, one could argue that Muslims have invited the mocking of Mohammed and Islam on themselves by the manner in which they react to it.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Subject is getting lost in too many words.

Are you saying drawing a pic of Mohammed is hate speech?

a reply to: Shamrock6

No, priest are men who live and walk among us right now, today.

This is really all off topic, to be honest. I just wanted to check your statement and assertion. The central power structure of the RCC makes it a completely different beast than Islam. Or protestants, for that matter.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

one could argue that Muslims have invited the mocking of Mohammed and Islam on themselves by the manner in which they react to it.

Sorry sounds like a child's argument..the argument not you, it's troll behaviour as described.
I woudn't stop their little exhibit though just to be clear.

Here is a good quote:

While I am a voice for acceptance of our Middle Eastern brothers and sisters, I reject any notion of Islam as a sacred cow. If people, including Muslims, wish to be part of a civilized society, they must accept the fact that civilized societies have a right to reject their beliefs, to debate them, and to mock them.

www.cnn.com...

a reply to: vonclod

Good job with the selectively edited quote. You left out the part where I said "by your logic."

Leaving that out only changes my statement by a large margin.

You must work for MSM

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You're right, they are completely different.

a reply to: Annee

Subject is getting lost in too many words. 

Thank you for finding a polite way to tell me I'm too chatty :-) I do know...

Are you saying drawing a pic of Mohammed is hate speech?

Yes - but I'm not sure how to say it with fewer words. I also realize it's not a popular opinion

But, I'm too tired tonight to even get into it

Let's just say that intent is everything - and sometimes people dress things up in a camouflage of jingoism