Traveling To Teotihuacan, : What Is Myth Here?

Hey All,

I'm in Mexico right now and will be going to Teotihuacan, in the next few days, right on the heels of some new discoveries there. I'll have access to an archaeologist, and while he will focus on science and will shun speculation (and make fun of the Ancient Alien series), I would like to ask a few probing questions. Would you be willing to post a few questions for me to ask him?

Here's what I know:

River of Mercuy

Archaeologists may be a step closer to discovering the secrets of the ancient city of Teotihuacan: They have unearthed liquid mercury deep beneath the Mexican Pyramid of the Feathered Serpent. The “large quantities” of the toxic liquid metal leads researchers to believe that an undiscovered ancient ritual chamber or even the tomb of a king could rest below the ruins of the ancient city that sits about 30 miles from Mexico City, reports Reuters.

On Friday, The Guardian reported that researcher Sergio Gómez stumbled upon the liquid mercury after six years of gradually uncovering a tunnel underneath the Teotihuacan pyramids.

And..cool tunnel discovered

Upon unsealing the tunnel in 2003, Gómez and his team dug up treasures including jaguar remains, enormous seashells, jade statues and rubber balls. The team in November 2014 discovered three chambers at the end of the tunnel, which had remained intact for about 1,800 years.

The Site Was Already There When The Aztecs discovered it:

When the Aztecs arrived to found the nearby Tenochtitlan (Mexico City) by prophecy in about 1300, the pyramids were already ancient. The last Aztec emperor Moctezuma had great reverence for the temples and made many visits there in the last years of his reign.

Who do you think built it? It seems archaeology is trying to answer that questions by looking into chambers within the tunnel to see if there are burials.

Science is considering the mercury river:

In Mesoamerican lore, reflective surfaces, such as mirrors, functioned as portals into both the future and as the river that they believed carries us all after death, something not unlike the Styx from Greek mythology.

I'll be adding pictures and thoughts to this thread in the days ahead and will be happy to take requests for anything you might want to see or know.

Sources for above info: www.newsweek.com...

Subscribing.

Looking forwards to your picture.

Could you ask about vision serpents please. And could cinnabar being burned in the bowls be how they may have acquired mercury?.

Thanks.

Some questions?

How much does this culture tie in with the olmecs?
How did they acquire so much mercury?
Any idea what's on the other end?

Pictures are gunna be sweet. I love these ancient sites.

originally posted by: MRuss
Hey All,

I'm in Mexico right now and will be going to Tenochtitlan in the next few days, right on the heels of some new discoveries there. I'll have access to an archaeologist, and while he will focus on science and will shun speculation (and make fun of the Ancient Alien series), I would like to ask a few probing questions. Would you be willing to post a few questions for me to ask him?

Here's what I know:

River of Mercuy

Archaeologists may be a step closer to discovering the secrets of the ancient city of Teotihuacan: They have unearthed liquid mercury deep beneath the Mexican Pyramid of the Feathered Serpent. The “large quantities” of the toxic liquid metal leads researchers to believe that an undiscovered ancient ritual chamber or even the tomb of a king could rest below the ruins of the ancient city that sits about 30 miles from Mexico City, reports Reuters.

On Friday, The Guardian reported that researcher Sergio Gómez stumbled upon the liquid mercury after six years of gradually uncovering a tunnel underneath the Teotihuacan pyramids.

And..cool tunnel discovered

Upon unsealing the tunnel in 2003, Gómez and his team dug up treasures including jaguar remains, enormous seashells, jade statues and rubber balls. The team in November 2014 discovered three chambers at the end of the tunnel, which had remained intact for about 1,800 years.

The Site Was Already There When The Aztecs discovered it:

When the Aztecs arrived to found the nearby Tenochtitlan (Mexico City) by prophecy in about 1300, the pyramids were already ancient. The last Aztec emperor Moctezuma had great reverence for the temples and made many visits there in the last years of his reign.

Who do you think built it? It seems archaeology is trying to answer that questions by looking into chambers within the tunnel to see if there are burials.

Science is considering the mercury river:

In Mesoamerican lore, reflective surfaces, such as mirrors, functioned as portals into both the future and as the river that they believed carries us all after death, something not unlike the Styx from Greek mythology.

I'll be adding pictures and thoughts to this thread in the days ahead and will be happy to take requests for anything you might want to see or know.

Sources for above info: www.newsweek.com...

Those are two different places. Teotihuacan is not Tenochitlan. In fact, the second is Aztec and the first is a civilization 1300 years before the Aztec even arrived there.

Having said that, both are awesome. Mexico City (Tenochitlan) is a great city. The old Aztec ruins are cool. It is unfortunate that most of the magical city was razed to the ground. It used to be an island city but all of it is filled in and very little is left. Teotihuacan, however, is largely intact.

If you can, stay at the old archaeologists' ranch house there.

What is the myth they believed? The dagon god Quetzalcoatl demanding human sacrifice to ease his wrath. They believed one day he will return. The beliefs are similar to what Christians who follow Paul believe today, but instead of many human sacrifices to ease the god's wrath, there is one - paul's version of Jesus Christ (the anti-christ).

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Ah, my friend, I stand corrected! I wrote the wrong address!

I am Mexico City now and will travel to Teotihuacan in a few days.

I corrected my misspelling in my OP and thank you kindly for the correction.

a reply to: MRuss

I envy you so hard right now that if I knew you?
I would hate you.

What the Aztecs found already there, was pre diluvian.
IMO
Ask why this is not considered when we see conjecture
take shape often in archeaology? Why is a written account
dismissed for lack of evidence when the account in ancient
scripture should be the evidence?

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: MRuss

I envy you so hard right now that if I knew you?
I would hate you.

What the Aztecs found already there, was pre diluvian.
IMO
Ask why this is not considered when we see conjecture
take shape often in archeaology? Why is a written account
dismissed for lack of evidence when the account in ancient
scripture should be the evidence?

Why do you think it is antediluvian?

The pyramids there date to approximately the time of Jesus.

originally posted by: MRuss
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Ah, my friend, I stand corrected! I wrote the wrong address!

I am Mexico City now and will travel to Teotihuacan in a few days.

I corrected my misspelling in my OP and thank you kindly for the correction.

Oh no worries. I make typos all of the time haha.

I went there in 2008. Loved it.

a reply to: MRuss

Trying to link the ancients is a very interesting subject .The more you study it the stranger it gets . I wanted to drop this off for you or your readers to check out . "On the Origin of Watchers:A Comparative Study of the AntediluvianWisdom in Mesopotamian and JewishTraditions " www.scribd.com... Reading it may give you some insights and questions to ask ....peace
*
ETA "Abstract
In the article, it is argued that the origin of Watchers derives from the Mesopotamianmythology of the antediluvian sages (
apkallu
s). More precisely, it is proposed that themythology of Watchers and their sons the giants derived from inverted versions of various Mesopotamian myths and beliefs about
apkallu
s. On some layers of Meso- potamian mythology and ritual practices, the sages were already regarded as danger-ous and potentially malicious creatures, upon which the Jewish authors could buildtheir parody. Among other associations, the
apkallu
s had strong ties to Mesopotamiandemonology, and they were occasionally counted as evil beings, capable of witch-craft. This shows that the wickedness of antediluvian teachers of humankind in Jewishsources was not wholly an inversion of the Mesopotamian traditions by Jewish schol-ars, but was partly taken from already existing trends in Mesopotamian demonology"

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Why do you think it is antediluvian?

The pyramids there date to approximately the time of Jesus.

Because it fits. You need only imagine a place remnant of a
world long past, being found, void of people, by the inhabitants
of the newer world.
The New World natives, in this case the Aztecs would
consider it a gift from their gods and name it as such. The
Aztecs practically tell us this. As well the egyptians never
made any claims as the great pyramids construction. The
largest came first and the others pale in comparison. If a
world did exist before this one. It would have left mysterious
ruins for the newer world to ponder. This an obvious fact
in our world that archeaologists have only guessed at the
origins and time periods involved with these ancient places.

Dated to the time of Jesus not constructed at the time of Jesus.

How did they date stone? I firmly believe you can't date a stone
structure that was obviously built to out last time itself.

"It is men who fear time but time fears the pyramids"

I would be asking approximately how much mercury was found, as I promise you there were no "rivers" of it. That idea is laughable, at best. The last two sites that archaeologists claimed to find "large quantities" of mercury hardly had 'rivers'. One was something like 2.1 grams of mercury, the other was 9 cubic centimeters. Those are some awfully small rivers.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Why do you think it is antediluvian?

The pyramids there date to approximately the time of Jesus.

Because it fits. You need only imagine a place remnant of a
world long past, being found, void of people, by the inhabitants
of the newer world.
The New World natives, in this case the Aztecs would
consider it a gift from their gods and name it as such. The
Aztecs practically tell us this. As well the egyptians never
made any claims as the great pyramids construction. The
largest came first and the others pale in comparison. If a
world did exist before this one. It would have left mysterious
ruins for the newer world to ponder. This an obvious fact
in our world that archeaologists have only guessed at the
origins and time periods involved with these ancient places.

Dated to the time of Jesus not constructed at the time of Jesus.

How did they date stone? I firmly believe you can't date a stone
structure that was obviously built to out last time itself.

"It is men who fear time but time fears the pyramids"

There is an entire buried city around it with the same construction and dateable material. And there are things within the pyramids such as sacrifices and other things that are dateable. I think they even have writings and things that point to a certain era. Remember that Teotihuacan did not exist in some vacuum.

For example, there are other ancient cities in Meso-America from that time period that have trade materials found from Teotihuacan. Moreover, those sites also show cultural influence from Teotihuacan.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

And none of that is evidence that points to the time
the pyramid of the sun was constructed. An entire city
is burried and you don't even raise an eyebrow per how that
came about? If only time is responsible it must be a radical
amount of time. Why are there no signs of the jungle being
slowly burried. If an Aztec city was burried was it before or after
Cortez?

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

And none of that is evidence that points to the time
the pyramid of the sun was constructed.

What about the children buried beneath the the 4 corners of the pyramid of the sun? It's pretty conclusive that bodies buried at or below the level of the foundation were there either prior to building the structure or were, based on other meso-american cultural traditions, sacrificed the honor the gods when the construction project was undertaken. The fact that they are buried at each of the 4 corners and nowhere else at the site of the PotS further illustrates this. Additionally, human remains can be very accurately dated. and just an additional note regarding your earlier reply and question about the dating and the possibility of dating the stones from which the structure is built... while you can't date the stone and assign a specific date for the structure based solely on the stone work involved, the patina and weathering on said stones CAN in fact be dated. Just a little food for thought my friend.

An entire city
is burried and you don't even raise an eyebrow per how that
came about?

Teotihuacan was buried? I'm going off memory here but from what I recall, it was abandoned after what would appear to be a period of civil unrest in a similar fashion to many cities associated with the Classical Mayan period. There were areas where there were some pretty serious fires at Teotihuacan and some localized destruction but it seems rather strictly confined to buildings and homes associated with the upper echelon of society and didn't seem to touch upon the areas habituated by the dregs of society and the artisans. This pretty much rules out an invasion by outsiders who would have not been so picky and discriminating in which portions of the city they destroyed. Teotihuacan was subsequently abandoned, but to my recollection, not buried a' la' Gobekli Tepe.

This aspect is also analogous to the collapse of many Classical Mayan cities such as Tulum( I was just there in December so I'm a little biased towards Tulum ) where the cities were simply abandoned as environmental impact from centuries of deforestation came to a head.

a little side note, to make the mortar used in building construction, trees were cut down and burned. this ash was mixed together with lime to create the mortar that held the stonework together. The Maya did a LOT of large scale building projects which required a LOT of mortar. They decimated forests until there was nothing left and the long term ecological impact really screwed them to say the least.

I don't know nearly as much about Teotihuacan as I do about Classical Mayan collapse but as there were Mayan people living in Teotihuacan and the Mayan people were heavily influenced by Teotihuacan I don't think it is a huge stretch to think they may have also been influenced in their pyramid building as well as other construction techniques. IF this is the case, and again, there are so many instances of influence and analogous overlap I don't think its unfair to make this leap of faith. I wouldn't go very far with the hypothesis though without additional information to support it.

Why are there no signs of the jungle being
slowly burried.

As I discuss above, depending on where you are in Meso-America, the forests may only be several hundred years old, perhaps younger. When discussing jungle near the sites in question, it is certainly much newer as there was no sustainable foliage when the cities were abandoned. In some instances, the jungle is what has "buried" some cities. As they were abandoned, the forests were allowed to regrow uninterrupted and literally overtook some of these cities. Several have been found the last decade or so completely overtaken and reclaimed by the jungle or forests at hand.

If an Aztec city was burried was it before or after
Cortez?

The Aztec, or Triple Alliance, was a relatively new phenomena that had yet to exist by the Time Columbus hit the New World. Though I'm fairly certain you're looking at the more broad view which would include the founding of Tenochtitlan in the early 14th century right? What is now Mexico city, the former cities of Tenochtitlan and Tlatelolco weren't themselves buried but the surrounding water of lake Texcoco was filled in. This was done after the Spanish Conquest.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Why do you think it is antediluvian?

The pyramids there date to approximately the time of Jesus.

Because it fits. You need only imagine a place remnant of a
world long past, being found, void of people, by the inhabitants
of the newer world.

No, you need to also imagine that there was a flood for this site to pre-date, or the term "antediluvian" becomes meaningless.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Wha ? Dude no!

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Harte

Wha ? Dude no!

I suppose you are only using the term, then, to indicate extreme antiquity, and not the Biblical flood scenario?

Just use "really, REALLY, old" instead of "Pre-flood" or whatever.

Harte

a reply to: peter vlar

Those are some damn good answers.
I'll shut up now.

a reply to: Harte

I read you Harte! Good advice.