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The UK Independence Party is NOT racist

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posted on May, 2 2015 @ 11:59 AM

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: DAZ21

I dont get it either, why is it racist to want an immigration policy the same as the US,Canada, or Australia??

After my first post, I thought I'd read the rest and respond, but to be honest few posts merited a response as they were all just the usual faecal matter spewed out against UKIP from people who can't even be arsed to research the issue for themselves and go on sound bites from the established parties.

This one though is a salient point - it isn't racist, but people try to paint it as such in order to distract from the debate.

Did anyone watch the BBC Newsbeat Election Special the other week where they had "young people" along with some party reps having a debate. The UKIP Migration spokesman Steven Woolfe was the only one in the room who actually had researched his topic and made a total fool out of Norman Lamb from the Libs as well as the carefully selected left-wingers in the audience.

UKIP are not anti-immigrant. What they stand for is controlled migration, rather than the open door policy we have at the moment. Not only do we have no control over the migration of large numbers of EU nationals into the UK, but we also cannot stop the floods of migrants from outside the EU who are then given the required paperwork in Italy or Spain and are then allowed to travel across Europe in order to try and enter the UK, which is their stated aim..

Considering we have a funding crisis with the NHS, a housing crisis where people cannot find affordable homes and not enough low end jobs for young people to start their careers, continuing the current policy of migration is unsustainable.

Net migration to the UK since 2000 has added around 3 million people over and above normal population growth, averaging 200,000 people a year. Considering, for example, that we are apparently short of houses by around 200,000 a year, it isn't rocket science to think that controlling one issue might actually enable us to control others.

But dare to even bring up immigration has you branded a "bigot" or "racist". Isn't that what Gordon Brown did in 2010, just before he got the boot? Labour shut down the immigration debate for a decade and as a result we now have the situation we have now

posted on May, 2 2015 @ 12:28 PM
a reply to: stumason

Cheers for such a well written and informed post Stu, I struggle to see anything which anyone could disagree with.
I think it may well be a shock result in the elections next week especially because of the lame cries of 'racist' or 'xenophobe'. Many many people who intend to vote UKIP have kept themselves quiet exactly because they do not wish to be labeled by those who get their political views solely from the tabloids.

This is certainly the most interesting election so far in my lifetime.

posted on May, 2 2015 @ 12:32 PM
a reply to: grainofsand


I would like to add that I am not a UKIP voter - I am more likely going to vote Conservative because there are UKIP policies I do not like. But what I am keen on is a balanced election where people get to see the facts of the matter, rather then the smear and BS that is being peddled in the media.

People like to point it out when UKIP candidates or members get pulled up for various comments they've made, but no-one seems to care when Labour, Tory or other party faithful get pulled up for the same thing, or worse! At least UKIP acts decisively with these members, whereas other parties try to protect those accused of far heinous crimes until the last possible minute.

posted on May, 2 2015 @ 12:52 PM
a reply to: stumason

Haha, I knew you were not a UKIP voter from previous threads, and you have been consistent with a call for rational and fair discussion. That is a rare thing on ATS and I have a lot of time for such an approach.

While a referendum on EU membership is my passion (and the Tories are offering that as well) I have a massive issue with GM food crops getting the go ahead to be grown and sold in the UK.
Last month the EU devolved the decision on banning GM crops to member nations. The Conservatives, Labour, and the Lib-Dems will all allow GM crops to be grown commercially for the first time in the UK in the next planting season.
The Greens (obviously), SNP, and Plaid Cymru are all against it, while UKIP is calling for a free vote in Parliament by MP's.

Over a third of all UK organic crops are grown here in the SW of England. Our farmers are seriously worried that in the likely event of cross pollination with GM crops then we can kiss the organic farming industry goodbye, as has pretty much happened in Canada.

For this fundamental reason I can not vote for any party who is supporting the end of the GM crops ban.
UKIP may be sitting on the fence with this one, but a free vote for MP's is better than nothing, and I really can't vote Green as I disagree with so much of their manifesto -- they wish to remain in the EU for a start.

posted on May, 2 2015 @ 04:57 PM

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: Jonjonj
Leaving the EU would be a complete disaster in my opinion. We simply don't have the core production industries to lose the benefits we get with the trade agreements we have in place. Right now, the last thing I want to see is an isolated UK. Or do you think that walking away unilaterally would mean that we would maintain the benefits we have now? Really? They would break those treaties and agreements in a heartbeat.

I know I am late to the party on this thread, but I'm sorry, what you said is total bollocks.

If the UK decided to leave the EU, pressure from EU manufacturers who make a good sum of money selling to the UK - not least in Germany - would have a free trade deal on the table within 24 hours.

That aside, we could leave the EU and join the EFTA, which we were originally part of in the first place.

Also, the UK has a seat at the WTO, but currently has given that over to the EU to represent the whole bloc. We could take our seat back and that would also protect trade with the EU as well as allowing us to trade with the wider world on our terms.

Anyone who claims leaving the EU would kill trade hasn't actually got a clue what they're talking about and is just parroting the lines from the pro-EU camp.

I bow down to the master of economics.

posted on May, 2 2015 @ 05:04 PM
a reply to: Jonjonj

Why reply just to be sarcastic?
If you disagree with another member's on-topic contributions then please do join the debate and share your reasons/links why.
I want this thread to be informative, not tabloidesque.

I note you still present your location as Madrid even though you confirmed in this thread that you are in fact in Liverpool, UK.
I have to keep reminding myself that you actually have a vote in this election and are not just trolling from Spain lol.
edit on 2.5.2015 by grainofsand because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 2 2015 @ 06:33 PM

originally posted by: southbeach

People have also had enough of being smacked over the head with the P.C. thought control baseball bat.

There are other issues such as all the new and best houses going to immigrants or so called minorities and having spent some time in my old area will vouch for that being true.
People have had enough of being treated as second class citizens in their own country and then immigrants who are mostly the dregs of society that have put nothing in being given everything without working for it.

Especially on the bolded bit!!!

posted on May, 3 2015 @ 03:25 AM
Apologies for my tardiness! Although I would not describe a points based immigration system as 'racist' (although I do not support it), the scapegoating of immigrants which stirs up racial hatred is not on in my opinion.

Aside from the xenophobic comments and views expressed by Farage and co (which by the way I do believe need to be taken into account, after all, a party IS the people who make it up), there are other things in the manifesto summary itself that worry me, for example:

Text"....We will not condone the philosophy of multiculturalism..."


"We will: - End the use of multi-lingual formatting on official documents
- Remove funding from public bodies promoting multiculturalism"

So if they do not condone multiculturalism, what is the alternative?

edit on 3-5-2015 by Scouse100 because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 3 2015 @ 03:41 AM
They might not be racist but they are xenophobic. I remember before Christmas the storm they whipped up about Romanians coming to take over the country and become your next door neighbours and how awful it would be to have a Romanian living next door.

posted on May, 3 2015 @ 03:49 AM
a reply to: grainofsand

Quite how a sensible, carefully thought out immigration policy can be twisted somehow into a racist agenda, is quite beyond reason.

Replace immigration and think of it as benefits money instead.

Would the public consider it a good or bad thing to pay unlimited benefits to a single claimant? No upper limit on how much money in benefits are paid to each claimant?

How does a weekly dole cheque for £10,000 sound?

What's that?...too much for Waynetta and her 6 fatherless kids? Why is that too much?

Could it be that we should have a sensible benefits policy that is fair and balanced and doesn't reward some for doing nothing, while penalising those who work hard?

Of course we should have a sensible benefits policy..JUST as we should have a sensible immigration policy.

If not, lets just fling open the borders, get rid of passports and border controls and allow everyone who is seeking a leg up, a free ride, a better quality of living and access to all Britain's services and benefits.

Everyone...let the entire world flood into our Islands and take what they

Not such a great idea?

Which is exactly WHY we need a sensible, carefully thought out immigration policy.

Still think controlled immigration is racism?

posted on May, 3 2015 @ 05:05 AM
a reply to: Jonjonj

Leaving the EU would be a complete disaster in my opinion.

I'm old enough to remember life before we joined the EU (or the EEC [European Economic Community] as it was then known).

I can't relate to the "complete disaster" you refer to; life was actually pretty good in the 1960s if you were a Briton; it was in the following decade that things went tits-up...2 oil crises, a bear market, spiralling inflation (25%+), spiralling interest rates, rising unemployment, wage caps. Things got so bad we had to apply to the IMF for a bailout.

All that happened after we joined the EU. Now, I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

But there's no reason whatever to suppose that the country will disappear down an economic black hole by merely opting out of this deal. And, furthermore, I definitely don't want my country to be reduced to an outlying region of the United States of Europe, which is clearly on the cards and what this organisation is and always has been about.

Political union combined with economic union.

BTW If, as I fear, we don't have the balls to leave, the time will come when we shall have to ditch the Pound and adopt the mickey mouse Euro.

That'll be good for the economy. *sarcasm off*

posted on May, 3 2015 @ 07:10 AM
a reply to: woodwardjnr

More than 27,000 Romanian citizens have been held for serious offences in London in the past five years, including ten for murder, 142 for rape and 666 for other sex offences.

We can't tar everyone one with the same brush I know. But being aware of the facts, I can't say I would blame people for being wary.

Regardless of what you think, 27000 people is a small town worth of Romanians that have committed crime in the UK.
edit on 3-5-2015 by DAZ21 because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 3 2015 @ 07:23 AM
a reply to: DAZ21 just give us a link to those figures
Talking about those facts. Here is a fact checker, with foi freedom of information links. It's worth being wary of the Sunday express which is owned by ukips biggest donor, Richard Desmond also the owner of channel 5 and some porn mags

edit on 3-5-2015 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 3 2015 @ 07:41 AM
a reply to: woodwardjnr

Apologies for the newspaper link, but it does seem that what Daz says is correct:
Up to one in three Romanians arrested - 2013 Telegraph article

Some 27,725 Romanians were arrested for offences in London over the past five years, Scotland Yard said, including 10 for murder and more than 140 for rape.

The figures, published under the Freedom of Information Act, will fuel fears of a crime wave when restrictions on workers from Romania and Bulgaria are lifted in January next year.

Romanians came second only to Poles, who accounted for 34,905 arrests, including 84 for murder and almost 130 for rape.

However, there were some 587,000 migrants born in Poland living in the UK in 2011, estimates from the Office for National Statistics showed, compared with 87,000 Romanians.

posted on May, 3 2015 @ 07:44 AM
a reply to: woodwardjnr

It's statistics from Scotland Yard themselves...

So according to those statistics, at the point in time, just over 30% of the Romanian immigrant population in the UK were criminals.

That equates to almost 1 in 3 Romanians...

ETA- grainofsand has done the honours above.

edit on 3-5-2015 by DAZ21 because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 3 2015 @ 07:51 AM
a reply to: DAZ21

Trouble is though Daz, even when the official record agrees with what people see themselves anecdotally, the liberal hand-wringers will still say it isn't a problem.
I don't want unskilled workers thieving in my country. 27,000 arrests out of a Romanian immigrant population of 87,000? FFS that is a disgrace. If they were lifted in Australia they would be on a flight back to Romania in a heartbeat, but as we have zero control over immigration from Europe they get released and pop back down the Jobcentre to sign on again for their benefits.

How can anyone even think that is acceptable?

posted on May, 3 2015 @ 07:57 AM
a reply to: grainofsand

Yes, I'm afraid the European Court of Human Rights would have something to say about our deportation of these criminals if we even tried...

There is only one answer and that is UKIP. If only we could get Labour supporters to see that and vote accordingly..

Unfortunately most of these people are cemented in their voting ways..

posted on May, 3 2015 @ 08:08 AM

originally posted by: DAZ21
There is only one answer and that is UKIP.
You are absolutely correct. UKIP is the ONLY party which is standing for control over immigration, and the ONLY way to do that is by leaving the political union with Europe. Labour and the rest can say as much as they like about controlling immigration but as members of the EU there is nothing the UK can do, and they know it.

For the record, I don't have bad feelings for any Eastern European who moves here for a better life, hell I'd do it myself if I lived in some piss poor Romanian village where minimum wage is less than a weeks worth of Jobseekers Allowance and Housing Benefit in the UK. Add the superior healthcare free from the NHS it's no wonder so many have migrated here.
I just want an end to the current situation which allows every man and his dog to move here regardless of their usefulness to the UK.

You know, a mature and sensible controlled immigration policy similar to those other 'racist' countries like Canada, New Zealand, Australia, the US....

posted on May, 3 2015 @ 08:22 AM
a reply to: grainofsand


I mean, it's obvious what was going to happen, in regards to free movement of people.

Practically the world's second language is English. one of the strongest European economies is the UK.

It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together, and realise that poor eastern Europeans would migrate to a country that's economical stronger and speaks a common language.

In fact it's obvious that this was going to happen.

They tell us we have the same freedoms to go to their countries, but one, no one speaks their language and two, their economies are poor, so if you found a job you'd be on about half the wage or less.

So that's the situation we have, and free movement of people was only ever going to work if we had similar economic prosperity, that would have been fair to all individual countries.

Now what we have is the more prosperous countries taking not just the poor economic migrants, but also some of their most skilled workers aswell.

Whoever thought up this United States of Europe, was a bit stupid and simple. That's the only explanation for it.

posted on May, 3 2015 @ 08:37 AM

originally posted by: DAZ21
Now what we have is the more prosperous countries taking not just the poor economic migrants, but also some of their most skilled workers aswell.
That is a very real concern for some countries, especially Romania:
Romanians despair that wealthy Britain is taking all their doctors

The brain drain of Romanian doctors going to richer EU countries is dramatic: over the past two years 30 per cent of resident doctors have left Romania, reducing the overall number of physicians from 20,000 in 2011 to 14,000 last year, according to official data.
Since it joined the 28-member bloc five years ago about 14,000 doctors have quit Romania.

The EU super state idea is deeply flawed in my opinion, and I've never had a vote about it as governments of the day sneaked us into it through various treaties.
A vote for UKIP is a clear vote to leave, and if all it does is force that referendum which slimy Cameron is apparently supporting, then it is a vote well worth casting.

Why anyone would want us to remain a mere region of the EU (paying out £8 billion per year (net) for the privilege) instead of being an independent country again, I have no idea.
What benefits do we actually get for that £8 billion which we couldn't provide for ourselves? I can't think of anything.

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