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The UK Independence Party is NOT racist

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posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:15 AM
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originally posted by: tdk84


Grammar Schools favor the wealthy.


No they don't.

Anyone with brains can pick up a text book revise and pass the 11+

I know many kids who had deadbeat parents get into the local Grammars.

Just because parents in the middle class are more likely to encourage there kids to succeed should not mean you punish us for you own failures!

And the wealthy go to private schools not Grammar schools anyway.
edit on 6-5-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: nonspecific

I stand corrected. A quick google found...



Today there are fewer than 200 state funded grammar schools; where they exist they are often viewed as a credible, free alternative to an independent school education, with places sought after and hard fought.


Non near me, I've gone all my life thinking all Grammer schools were private
. Talk about regional difficulties. But anyway, its a moot point, was a rather minor tongue in cheek comment aimed at the wealthy.
edit on 6-5-2015 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: grainofsand

i will be voting UKIP and im not racist
i hope to god we get out of the eu
and have a points system on migrants

star and flag

ps all the other leaders are a bunch of idiots in my OPINION



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:17 AM
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originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: tdk84

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: tdk84
, a return to grammar schools, these are backward-looking policies.


How is grammar school backward?

Selecting the best and brightest and pushing them to be the best is nothing but good.

Dumping them in a comprehensive school that caters to the lowest common denominator and goes as the speed of the slowest learner is a good way to disfranchise them.

Only people who are against Grammar school in my opinion are the ones too stupid to pass the 11+.



Well here I am to disprove your point, a grammar school pupil who opposes grammar schools


The selection process is unfair, largely favouring middle class kids (backed up by stats). This is possibly down to private tutoring and private primary school and knocks the social mobility argument on the head. Grammar schools also draw in resources including good teachers that could otherwise be advantageous to all children regardless of their ability.


I can second that. I went to Private primary for a couple of years before the costs were too tall during my parents divorce and was withdrawn.

Grammar Schools favor the wealthy.


As crazyewok said there is a difference between private and grammer schools.

Grammer schools concentrate on more acedemic subjects leading to a more acedemic career.

Comprehensive schools were supposed to offer a more balanced schooling more suited to those who would be more than likely manual or skilled labour.


I think tdk is saying that private primary schools make an 11+ pass more likely, this is what I was saying anyway.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:19 AM
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a reply to: Scouse100

I scraped a 11+ pass in a state primary with undiagnosed Dyslexia, Dysphraxia with no private tutors.

If I can do it surely its not that hard



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: bastion

It's more a point about your double standards.
ukip person says something. ..shock horror.

LibLabCon does something. ..silence.


She isn't LibLabCon, she's a journalist with tenuous links to a Labour based think tank over a decade ago.

Can you point out any examples of her advocating violent rape or sticking cannons up peoples backsides and firing them to Israel, otherwise you have no point.

-----

Grammar schools are tricky, yes some students are more able than others, but writing most pupils off at an early age is a pretty backwards approach to education and generally favours those who come from wealthier families and have the added advantage of being educated by parents/tutor etc.. though both my parents got in grammars despite not having parents/a stable home.
edit on 6-5-2015 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:21 AM
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a reply to: Scouse100

Yes, obviously private school, extra home classes etc give advantages.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:21 AM
link   

originally posted by: tdk84
a reply to: nonspecific

I stand corrected. A quick google found...



Today there are fewer than 200 state funded grammar schools; where they exist they are often viewed as a credible, free alternative to an independent school education, with places sought after and hard fought.


Non near me, I've gone all my life thinking all Grammer schools were private
. Talk about regional difficulties.
I do not think there are any real grammer schools left now, they were phased out years ago.

The one's that keep the grammer title do so in name alone. There was one in a town near I grew up but it was not allowed to be selective.

I think that the thought of bringing back grammer schools sounds elitist but in fact is simply a way seperating two very different kinds of people early on so as to focus on there skill set and give them an education suitable to there future needs.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:23 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: tdk84
, a return to grammar schools, these are backward-looking policies.


How is grammar school backward?

Selecting the best and brightest and pushing them to be the best is nothing but good. I felt slowed down a restricted in my learning.

Dumping them in a comprehensive school that caters to the lowest common denominator and goes as the speed of the slowest learner is a good way to disfranchise them.

Only people who are against Grammar school in my opinion are the ones too stupid to pass the 11+.



Well here I am to disprove your point, a grammar school pupil who opposes grammar schools


The selection process is unfair, largely favouring middle class kids (backed up by stats). This is possibly down to private tutoring and private primary school and knocks the social mobility argument on the head. Grammar schools also draw in resources including good teachers that could otherwise be advantageous to all children regardless of their ability.


And as someone who transferred from a comp to a Grammer after my SATs I 100% disagree.
At comp I was disfranchised and utterly bored.

Just because us middle class kids have parents that care about our education should not mean we get punished. If the working class want in, stop pissing around at school buck up and start learning.

I knew a good number of working class kids who went to Grammer and moved on to bigger and better things like ox-bridge , opportunity's they would not have had in a local sink school. For them is a was social mobility springboard and some are now doing better than me!


I was a working class kid at my Grammar school and so were some of my mates but that doesn't disprove the stats now does it! Around 18% of pupils are eligible for free school meals overall and only around 2-3% in grammar schools. Are you seriously trying to blame primary school age kids for not booking up their ideas and tutoring themselves?



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: tdk84
a reply to: nonspecific

I stand corrected. A quick google found...



Today there are fewer than 200 state funded grammar schools; where they exist they are often viewed as a credible, free alternative to an independent school education, with places sought after and hard fought.


Non near me, I've gone all my life thinking all Grammer schools were private
. Talk about regional difficulties.
I do not think there are any real grammer schools left now, they were phased out years ago.

The one's that keep the grammer title do so in name alone. There was one in a town near I grew up but it was not allowed to be selective.

I think that the thought of bringing back grammer schools sounds elitist but in fact is simply a way seperating two very different kinds of people early on so as to focus on there skill set and give them an education suitable to there future needs.


Medway and Maidstone have the traditional Grammars still. All based on the 11+, we are rather protective of them and even Labour have been too scared to touch them.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:27 AM
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originally posted by: Scouse100
Are you seriously trying to blame primary school age kids for not booking up their ideas and tutoring themselves?


No I blame the parents.

But those of us who are in the bright category should not be punished and held back because working class parents are prone to be lazy with there kids education and development.

Instead of attacking the Grammar schools attack the failure of the primary schools and the parents?



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:27 AM
link   

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: tdk84
, a return to grammar schools, these are backward-looking policies.


How is grammar school backward?

Selecting the best and brightest and pushing them to be the best is nothing but good. I felt slowed down a restricted in my learning.

Dumping them in a comprehensive school that caters to the lowest common denominator and goes as the speed of the slowest learner is a good way to disfranchise them.

Only people who are against Grammar school in my opinion are the ones too stupid to pass the 11+.



Well here I am to disprove your point, a grammar school pupil who opposes grammar schools


The selection process is unfair, largely favouring middle class kids (backed up by stats). This is possibly down to private tutoring and private primary school and knocks the social mobility argument on the head. Grammar schools also draw in resources including good teachers that could otherwise be advantageous to all children regardless of their ability.


And as someone who transferred from a comp to a Grammer after my SATs I 100% disagree.
At comp I was disfranchised and utterly bored.

Just because us middle class kids have parents that care about our education should not mean we get punished. If the working class want in, stop pissing around at school buck up and start learning.

I knew a good number of working class kids who went to Grammer and moved on to bigger and better things like ox-bridge , opportunity's they would not have had in a local sink school. For them is a was social mobility springboard and some are now doing better than me!


I was a working class kid at my Grammar school and so were some of my mates but that doesn't disprove the stats now does it! Around 18% of pupils are eligible for free school meals overall and only around 2-3% in grammar schools. Are you seriously trying to blame primary school age kids for not booking up their ideas and tutoring themselves?


I would not personally blame the children but could certainly place the blame on the parents for not instilling a desire to learn and a structure and enviroment in which to do so.

Two of my 3 stepchildren are from a "working class" background and lived in a council house and are both straight a students now both doing well at university.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:29 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: tdk84
a reply to: nonspecific

I stand corrected. A quick google found...



Today there are fewer than 200 state funded grammar schools; where they exist they are often viewed as a credible, free alternative to an independent school education, with places sought after and hard fought.


Non near me, I've gone all my life thinking all Grammer schools were private
. Talk about regional difficulties.
I do not think there are any real grammer schools left now, they were phased out years ago.

The one's that keep the grammer title do so in name alone. There was one in a town near I grew up but it was not allowed to be selective.

I think that the thought of bringing back grammer schools sounds elitist but in fact is simply a way seperating two very different kinds of people early on so as to focus on there skill set and give them an education suitable to there future needs.


Medway and Maidstone have the traditional Grammars still. All based on the 11+, we are rather protective of them and even Labour have been too scared to touch them.


I did not realise that selective enrollment was still allowed.

Not that I had a problem I thought it was phased out in the 70's.

You live and learn.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:31 AM
link   

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: tdk84
a reply to: nonspecific

I stand corrected. A quick google found...



Today there are fewer than 200 state funded grammar schools; where they exist they are often viewed as a credible, free alternative to an independent school education, with places sought after and hard fought.


Non near me, I've gone all my life thinking all Grammer schools were private
. Talk about regional difficulties.
I do not think there are any real grammer schools left now, they were phased out years ago.

The one's that keep the grammer title do so in name alone. There was one in a town near I grew up but it was not allowed to be selective.

I think that the thought of bringing back grammer schools sounds elitist but in fact is simply a way seperating two very different kinds of people early on so as to focus on there skill set and give them an education suitable to there future needs.


Medway and Maidstone have the traditional Grammars still. All based on the 11+, we are rather protective of them and even Labour have been too scared to touch them.


I did not realise that selective enrollment was still allowed.

Not that I had a problem I thought it was phased out in the 70's.

You live and learn.

Nope did my 11+ in 1999 and its still going on with my friends kids just about to take them. Every election the local candidates from all parties promise to shield them as things get quite erm heated otherwise.

Think there is only 3 county's though that keep them. Kent, Berkshire and I forget the other.
edit on 6-5-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:34 AM
link   

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: tdk84
a reply to: nonspecific

I stand corrected. A quick google found...



Today there are fewer than 200 state funded grammar schools; where they exist they are often viewed as a credible, free alternative to an independent school education, with places sought after and hard fought.


Non near me, I've gone all my life thinking all Grammer schools were private
. Talk about regional difficulties.
I do not think there are any real grammer schools left now, they were phased out years ago.

The one's that keep the grammer title do so in name alone. There was one in a town near I grew up but it was not allowed to be selective.

I think that the thought of bringing back grammer schools sounds elitist but in fact is simply a way seperating two very different kinds of people early on so as to focus on there skill set and give them an education suitable to there future needs.


That will explain the confusion. My google search revealed 200 left in the country. Which is elitist in itself, obviously will be dominated by the privately schooled. All the grammer schools I know are private.

Its a moot point, it was such a minor comment I made about education...

Pulling up the drawbridge and retreating into some idealised version of the 1950s which never existed is the bigger issue.
edit on 6-5-2015 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:34 AM
link   

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: tdk84
a reply to: nonspecific

I stand corrected. A quick google found...



Today there are fewer than 200 state funded grammar schools; where they exist they are often viewed as a credible, free alternative to an independent school education, with places sought after and hard fought.


Non near me, I've gone all my life thinking all Grammer schools were private
. Talk about regional difficulties.
I do not think there are any real grammer schools left now, they were phased out years ago.

The one's that keep the grammer title do so in name alone. There was one in a town near I grew up but it was not allowed to be selective.

I think that the thought of bringing back grammer schools sounds elitist but in fact is simply a way seperating two very different kinds of people early on so as to focus on there skill set and give them an education suitable to there future needs.


Medway and Maidstone have the traditional Grammars still. All based on the 11+, we are rather protective of them and even Labour have been too scared to touch them.


I did not realise that selective enrollment was still allowed.

Not that I had a problem I thought it was phased out in the 70's.

You live and learn.

Nope did my 11+ in 1999 and its still going on with my friends kids just about to take them. Every election the local candidates form all parties promise to shield them as things get quite erm heated otherwise.

Think there is only 3 county's though that keep them. Kent, Berkshire and I forget the other.


1999? I got your age wrong by about 25 years!

I often do that with ATS members



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:35 AM
link   

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: tdk84
a reply to: nonspecific

I stand corrected. A quick google found...



Today there are fewer than 200 state funded grammar schools; where they exist they are often viewed as a credible, free alternative to an independent school education, with places sought after and hard fought.


Non near me, I've gone all my life thinking all Grammer schools were private
. Talk about regional difficulties.
I do not think there are any real grammer schools left now, they were phased out years ago.

The one's that keep the grammer title do so in name alone. There was one in a town near I grew up but it was not allowed to be selective.

I think that the thought of bringing back grammer schools sounds elitist but in fact is simply a way seperating two very different kinds of people early on so as to focus on there skill set and give them an education suitable to there future needs.


Medway and Maidstone have the traditional Grammars still. All based on the 11+, we are rather protective of them and even Labour have been too scared to touch them.


I did not realise that selective enrollment was still allowed.

Not that I had a problem I thought it was phased out in the 70's.

You live and learn.

Nope did my 11+ in 1999 and its still going on with my friends kids just about to take them. Every election the local candidates form all parties promise to shield them as things get quite erm heated otherwise.

Think there is only 3 county's though that keep them. Kent, Berkshire and I forget the other.


1999? I got your age wrong by about 25 years!

I often do that with ATS members

How old did you think I was ?



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:36 AM
link   

originally posted by: tdk84

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: tdk84
a reply to: nonspecific

I stand corrected. A quick google found...



Today there are fewer than 200 state funded grammar schools; where they exist they are often viewed as a credible, free alternative to an independent school education, with places sought after and hard fought.


Non near me, I've gone all my life thinking all Grammer schools were private
. Talk about regional difficulties.
I do not think there are any real grammer schools left now, they were phased out years ago.

The one's that keep the grammer title do so in name alone. There was one in a town near I grew up but it was not allowed to be selective.

I think that the thought of bringing back grammer schools sounds elitist but in fact is simply a way seperating two very different kinds of people early on so as to focus on there skill set and give them an education suitable to there future needs.


That will explain the confusion. My google search revealed 200 left in the country. Which is elitist in itself, obviously will be dominated by the privately schooled. All the grammer schools I know are private anyway.

Anyway I think its a moot point, it was such a minor comment I made about education...

Pulling up the drawbridge and retreating into some idealised version of the 1950s which never existed is the bigger issue.


Well it does bring up a good point.

The failing UK education systems that been sinking only second to the US education system. Something both parties here are guilty of.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:38 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

You have a point, this discussion revealed a lot I wasn't fully aware off too.



posted on May, 6 2015 @ 10:38 AM
link   

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: tdk84
a reply to: nonspecific

I stand corrected. A quick google found...



Today there are fewer than 200 state funded grammar schools; where they exist they are often viewed as a credible, free alternative to an independent school education, with places sought after and hard fought.


Non near me, I've gone all my life thinking all Grammer schools were private
. Talk about regional difficulties.
I do not think there are any real grammer schools left now, they were phased out years ago.

The one's that keep the grammer title do so in name alone. There was one in a town near I grew up but it was not allowed to be selective.

I think that the thought of bringing back grammer schools sounds elitist but in fact is simply a way seperating two very different kinds of people early on so as to focus on there skill set and give them an education suitable to there future needs.


Medway and Maidstone have the traditional Grammars still. All based on the 11+, we are rather protective of them and even Labour have been too scared to touch them.


I did not realise that selective enrollment was still allowed.

Not that I had a problem I thought it was phased out in the 70's.

You live and learn.

Nope did my 11+ in 1999 and its still going on with my friends kids just about to take them. Every election the local candidates form all parties promise to shield them as things get quite erm heated otherwise.

Think there is only 3 county's though that keep them. Kent, Berkshire and I forget the other.


1999? I got your age wrong by about 25 years!

I often do that with ATS members

How old did you think I was ?


I put you at round about 50ish mate, Hope your not offended


I think I'm not good with ages here though I thought grainofsand was a retired etonian in a smoking jacket for a fair while.



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