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The UK Independence Party is NOT racist

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posted on May, 4 2015 @ 11:56 AM
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a reply to: woodwardjnr

Exactly mate, all part of the overall plan.

Dumb down education, introduce university fees, reduce workforce representation and rights, minimum wage, open door immigration policy.

Who does this benefit?

Certainly not the ordinary, everyday British public.




posted on May, 4 2015 @ 12:03 PM
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a reply to: Prezbo369

I am stating that your quotes were unreferenced and I have no way of checking the validity.
You are most certainly a slippery one in debate. If you have any particular issues with UKIP's published policies then please do engage and we can have mature debate.
I did respectfully ask for that in the OP so having previously been warned about engaging with trolls in a previous thread I will repeat that request or shall be forced to click 'alert' which is something I really don't want to do as I've never been a grass, but hey ATS house, ATS rules.

Now, if you wish to discuss UKIP's policies then I am open to debate, but if it's just a repeat of unreferenced quotes and tabloidesque soundbites I shall engage no further and well, just ignore you.
There is no way we can get anywhere productive discussing your apparent and solely emotionally based argument in a serious political thread.



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn and that's the way it's always been, without getting all Marxist. It's the continuing struggle of the proletariat and bourgousie. Power to the people and all the rest



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 12:10 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Prezbo369

I am stating that your quotes were unreferenced and I have no way of checking the validity.
You are most certainly a slippery one in debate. If you have any particular issues with UKIP's published policies then please do engage and we can have mature debate.
I did respectfully ask for that in the OP so having previously been warned about engaging with trolls in a previous thread I will repeat that request or shall be forced to click 'alert' which is something I really don't want to do as I've never been a grass, but hey ATS house, ATS rules.

Now, if you wish to discuss UKIP's policies then I am open to debate, but if it's just a repeat of unreferenced quotes and tabloidesque soundbites I shall engage no further and well, just ignore you.
There is no way we can get anywhere productive discussing your apparent and solely emotionally based argument in a serious political thread.


We may not agree on this topic but I'm glad to see that someone is not afraid to yell for mum when someone is not plaing fair.

It's about time OP's toughened up and did something to keep on topic when things start going all pete.

We never got a chance earler so as your asking about actual poicies now what are your personal opinion on UKIP's enviromental policies?
edit on 4/5/2015 by nonspecific because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: Prezbo369



.....but the nuts UKIP has collected are particularly vile.


Lord Janner. Labour.
Peter Mandelson. Labour.
Cyril Smith. Liberal.
Leon Brittan. Conservative.
Edward Heath. Conservative.

Now there are just a small percentage of truly evil people who have achieved positions of real power and influence with the major political parties.

This doesn't include those who deliberately lied to parliament and led this country into an illegal war that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of British people and other nationalities.
Nor the countless hundreds of politicians who have milked the current system to further their own agenda's of personal gain and advancement against the best interests of the British people.

Racists and idiots are an all too common presence in all political parties, UKIP most definitely do not have any exclusivity in this.

You are quite correct though in your assessment of UKIP's policy regarding women and maternity leave etc - a true indication of their affinity with Victorian Tory like ideals.



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 12:22 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
We never got a chance earler so as your asking about actual poicies now what is your personal opinion on UKIP's enviromental policies?

I support UKIP's stance for a free vote in Parliament by MP's to decide if GM crops can be grown commercially for the first time in the UK. Labour/Conservative/Lib-Dem's are all going to allow it in the next planting season.

I support UKIP's policy of setting our own reformed climate agenda, even down to reopening coal mines and the economic boom such a decision would have in Wales and Northern England. We can burn it in much cleaner ways than back in the 80's, and building/expansion of new power stations would have an equally positive effect on local economies.
I do not support all of it though, and would want extensive tree planting etc.

While the US, Russia, and China continue pumping out the levels of Carbon which they do it would be ridiculous to think our contribution (or not) is going to make the slightest difference to the world.

It is not just a question of climate/environment though, my thoughts are influenced by the very real risk we are currently under while we are so dependent on Russian gas to produce electricity. Replacing Russian gas with British coal will not result in a net increase of CO2 as I see it, although I could be wrong of course.
If you are aware of any published studies to indicate otherwise I would of course be interested in reading them.

...I'm voting UKIP for a referendum on EU membership though. That is the most important issue to me right now, all the rest can be debated later.



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 12:55 PM
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Can you guys explain Ukip to me please?
So Ukip want independence - hence the name - from Europeans and they wish to stop Europeans coming in and drastically reduce immigration from elsewhere.
Stop foreign aid and other overseas programs.
They're essentially isolationist in their thinking I guess?
Seems like some of our Repubs.

I have read a little online but sadly like all political parties - what they pledge and what their stated aims and policies are, and what they actually do when they get into power, are very, very different things.
I won't lie - I'm about as Left-Wing & Liberal as they come and I know next to nothing about UK politics except that you have actual left-wing & right-wing parties, unlike us.



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: stargatetravels

you pretty much got UKIP right. They want to exit the EU and can a lot of foreign aid.


Labour are slightly left and gave the world abominations such as the Iraq war.

Conservatives that are in power now under Camron are slightly right and gave us abominations like Margret thatcher.

LibDems are under deputy PM Clegg and are very center and extremely pro EU.

Greens are extremely Left wing and borderline communist, in fact they are bat # insane. Like Lenin if he was huffing unicorn farts and pixie dust. No one really takes them seriously except Brighton which is our Gay and Libral arts capital.
edit on 4-5-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: stargatetravels

you pretty much got UKIP right. They want to exit the EU and can a lot of foreign aid.


Labour are slightly left and gave the world abominations such as the Iraq war.

Conservatives that are in power now under Camron are slightly right and gave us abominations like Margret thatcher.

LibDems are under deputy PM Clegg and are very center and extremely pro EU.

Greens are extremely Left wing and borderline communist, in fact they are bat # insane. Like Lenin if he was huffing unicorn farts and pixie dust. No one really takes them seriously except Brighton which is our Gay and Libral arts capital.


You bought a big laugh to what was a pretty heated thread there Ewok.

You summed it up pretty well although I would say that the greens are no more crazy than UKIP but in defence of both parties at least they put what they belive in before voter numbers.



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: stargatetravels

Basically the UK is a member of the European Union and nobody in the UK has ever had a vote on this political union which has primacy over UK law in many areas. Various previous UK governments signed treaties on our behalf which got us into the current situation which is vastly different to the vote on free trade with Europe back in 1975.

For over a decade EU immigration into the UK, from mainly poor areas of Eastern Europe has resulted in net migration (population growth) running at over 200,000 extra people each year.
Basic welfare/housing benefits are worth more than minimum wage in most parts of Eastern Europe so millions of folk have moved here to take advantage of it, regardless of if the UK needs them or not.
On arrival they have instant access to benefits, are housed immediately by local authorities if they have kids, can access free healthcare and medicine from the NHS, and have forced our schools to employ multiple translators for the multiple languages they speak.

Our services are at breaking point as a result, and only one political party has policies which can actually do anything about it, UKIP. The current prime minister lied at the last election promising a vote on EU membership, the other main parties claim to want controlled immigration but they know legally they can do nothing about it without agreement of all member countries of Europe, or deciding for us to leave and have a solely trading relationship.

The current prime minister is again claiming to offer a referendum for us on the question of EU membership, but it is only votes for the UK Independence party which have any hope of forcing that referendum.

It is why I am voting UKIP.
200,000+ net increase in population of our island year on year is no longer sustainable.
Think 200,000+ unskilled Mexicans moving to Canada every year with the Canadian government being unable to pick who they need, that is kind of the situation, but in a much smaller land mass.



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: stargatetravels

Basically the UK is a member of the European Union and nobody in the UK has ever had a vote on this political union which has primacy over UK law in many areas. Various previous UK governments signed treaties on our behalf which got us into the current situation which is vastly different to the vote on free trade with Europe back in 1975.

For over a decade EU immigration into the UK, from mainly poor areas of Eastern Europe has resulted in net migration (population growth) running at over 200,000 extra people each year.
Basic welfare/housing benefits are worth more than minimum wage in most parts of Eastern Europe so millions of folk have moved here to take advantage of it, regardless of if the UK needs them or not.
On arrival they have instant access to benefits, are housed immediately by local authorities if they have kids, can access free healthcare and medicine from the NHS, and have forced our schools to employ multiple translators for the multiple languages they speak.

Our services are at breaking point as a result, and only one political party has policies which can actually do anything about it, UKIP. The current prime minister lied at the last election promising a vote on EU membership, the other main parties claim to want controlled immigration but they know legally they can do nothing about it without agreement of all member countries of Europe, or deciding for us to leave and have a solely trading relationship.

The current prime minister is again claiming to offer a referendum for us on the question of EU membership, but it is only votes for the UK Independence party which have any hope of forcing that referendum.

It is why I am voting UKIP.
200,000+ net increase in population of our island year on year is no longer sustainable.
Think 200,000+ unskilled Mexicans moving to Canada every year with the Canadian government being unable to pick who they need, that is kind of the situation, but in a much smaller land mass.


As I said earlier I am in favour of a referendum or at least a re evaluation of our current immigration situation.

Is there hard evidence to show that our resources are at breaking point and that immigration is the direct cause of this as opposed to other issues?

I am thinking mismanegment, increased life span, our own population growth, failure in education, the list could go on.

As said earlier I'm almost tempted to rethink my opinion so any proof that EU immigrants are the direct cause could sway me.



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Wow - wasn't expecting a run down, awesome thanks!
Wasn't the war voted through by your whole house from both or all sides?

Green Party for me.



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: stargatetravels
a reply to: crazyewok

Wow - wasn't expecting a run down, awesome thanks!
Wasn't the war voted through by your whole house from both or all sides?

Green Party for me.


Yes.

Though as the Conservatives were in opposition they officially would not have had access to the intelligence documents beyond what the public knew so as far as they knew Tony Blair was telling the truth in that Iraq did have WMD's. whether or not some of the the top torys had unofficially access is another matter. But yes they are party to blame too but did not come up with the lie.
edit on 4-5-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

Thank you GOS - a really thorough and enlightening summary.
I don't think I'm on the same page politically as you Ukip guys but hey, the only people who know what's going on politically and economically in their own country are the citizens.
So if you guys want change and are fed up - as most of the world is - of career politicians who are self-serving and in the pockets of the Mega-Corps and Big-Pharma and never listen to people and their needs and struggles, then you should change it.

From what I've read on Ukip they definitely wouldn't be my choice.
There seems to be - again from the little research I've done - a huge rise in the popularity of rar-right political parties across Europe and Ukip have allied themselves with many of these, including fascist parties in Europe.
I've read a few pages of this thread and I know this is an emotive topic and many voting are doing so as a 'protest' but I think, as others have said, that a vote for these guys could be dangerous.
The Far-right to me is not something to be affiliated with or entertained, even if Ukip may only be using them for their own gains.

I'm trying to remember what I read the other day about this - the Ukip links to far right.
Either way, I just wanted to hear from you regular citizens about Ukip and what they represent to you.
Than you for your honest and civil responses.



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 01:27 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
Is there hard evidence to show that our resources are at breaking point and that immigration is the direct cause of this as opposed to other issues?
Free for all immigration into the UK from the EU is a contributing factor.
200,000+ people every year is like a new Swindon being created every year.
How can it not be a contributing factor?

I trust my own anecdotal experience more than any spun research. The primary school my son went to has doubled in size in ten years and has had to employ 15 different translators for EU national children.
I shall leave it to your good self to research if this is good for a local economy or not. I trust my own experience and the statements of friends who are working in local government.



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: stargatetravels

Cheers, no worries

...and I'm only voting UKIP for a chance at getting the referendum on EU membership. A vote for any other party will not result in a referendum.



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: nonspecific
Is there hard evidence to show that our resources are at breaking point and that immigration is the direct cause of this as opposed to other issues?
Free for all immigration into the UK from the EU is a contributing factor.
200,000+ people every year is like a new Swindon being created every year.
How can it not be a contributing factor?

I trust my own anecdotal experience more than any spun research. The primary school my son went to has doubled in size in ten years and has had to employ 15 different translators for EU national children.
I shall leave it to your good self to research if this is good for a local economy or not. I trust my own experience and the statements of friends who are working in local government.


Without knowing all the facts I cannot say if 200,000 plus immigrants every year is putting the strain on our resources.

The area I currently live has a smallish eastern European community but the largest Goan community outside of Goa in the world.

My son who lives with his mum goes to a small villiage school in the Cotswolds, house prices mean that immigrants are not an issue.

Maybe I live in an area that is not facing the same problems as others but with only anecdotal evidence to suggest that EU immigration is the primary reason for the state of the nation I will stick to my origional opinion whilest respecting yours.



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 01:48 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Prezbo369

I am stating that your quotes were unreferenced and I have no way of checking the validity.


Well that's just pedantic nonsense then isn't it....


You are most certainly a slippery one in debate. If you have any particular issues with UKIP's published policies then please do engage and we can have mature debate.


I already have.....And I've said this multiple times now, you're being incredibly dishonest, again.


I did respectfully ask for that in the OP so having previously been warned about engaging with trolls in a previous thread I will repeat that request or shall be forced to click 'alert' which is something I really don't want to do as I've never been a grass, but hey ATS house, ATS rules.


A thinly veiled threat? Are you really that intimidated?


if you wish to discuss UKIP's policies then I am open to debate, but if it's just a repeat of unreferenced quotes and tabloidesque soundbites I shall engage no further and well, just ignore you.
There is no way we can get anywhere productive discussing your apparent and solely emotionally based argument in a serious political thread.


You have no interest in open debate here, you just want people in this thread that agree with You.

I've shown why I think your the title of this thread is wrong and why I think a vote for ukip would be one for a party very similar to one for parties such as the bnp. But if you can stomach that then cool go for it and we shall see what happens on Thursday.



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

That's cool man, your vote is your own, I'm just sharing why I am choosing mine, and only really started the thread to counter the myth that UKIP policies seeking controlled immigration are inherently racist.
edit on 4.5.2015 by grainofsand because: Typo



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 02:00 PM
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originally posted by: stargatetravels
a reply to: grainofsand

Thank you GOS - a really thorough and enlightening summary.
I don't think I'm on the same page politically as you Ukip guys but hey, the only people who know what's going on politically and economically in their own country are the citizens.
So if you guys want change and are fed up - as most of the world is - of career politicians who are self-serving and in the pockets of the Mega-Corps and Big-Pharma and never listen to people and their needs and struggles, then you should change it.

From what I've read on Ukip they definitely wouldn't be my choice.
There seems to be - again from the little research I've done - a huge rise in the popularity of rar-right political parties across Europe and Ukip have allied themselves with many of these, including fascist parties in Europe.
I've read a few pages of this thread and I know this is an emotive topic and many voting are doing so as a 'protest' but I think, as others have said, that a vote for these guys could be dangerous.
The Far-right to me is not something to be affiliated with or entertained, even if Ukip may only be using them for their own gains.

I'm trying to remember what I read the other day about this - the Ukip links to far right.
Either way, I just wanted to hear from you regular citizens about Ukip and what they represent to you.
Than you for your honest and civil responses.


my personal opinion is similar to yours, that UKIP are dangerous. they are to my mind a far right party(not calling them racist by the way) with a lot of dangerous ideals, a huge ego but with a great one liner policy that many in the UK can relate to.

They push immigration and the promise of a referendum and many in the UK will simply be blinded by the hype and not take the time to understand the implications of there full manifesto until it is too late.

The above is simply my opinion as a far left hippy with a big beard and the hope that one day we will all be able to just get along man.

Peace.
edit on 4/5/2015 by nonspecific because: (no reason given)



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