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The UK Independence Party is NOT racist

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posted on May, 3 2015 @ 01:58 PM
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originally posted by: yorkshirelad
Like Norway, as they keep stating. Norway that has to adopt all EU trade legislation without voting on it or taking part in any of the meetings to establish the legislation as we do at present. Oops sorry I forgot, as UK representatives can do at present but fail to turn up at the goddam meeting and then bitch and complain afterwards......like UKIP. There attendance (or rather lack of) is on record.


Actually, being a member of the EFTA does not mean that countries have to be part of the EEA agreement and adopt said legislation. Also, EFTA countries who are part of the EEA can ignore all legislation to do with fisheries and agriculture which are arguably the most contentious issues over the past 2-3 decades with regards to the EU outside of immigration.

Also, Switzerland is an EFTA member but is not part of the EEA and doesn't have to adopt any EU legislation. It has also negotiated it's own free trade agreements with the EU. In these agreements, Switzerland chose which area's of EU law it wanted to be part of and put that to a national referendum.

Now tell me, if they can do that, why can the UK not do the same? There are parts of the EU which are good for the UK, so why can we not negotiate exactly the same kind of deals Switzerland did while retaining control over our own nation, it's borders and it's future? The UK is many times the size of Switzerland and is of far more importance to other EU members, so if they are allowed to have an "a la carte" approach to the EU, then why the bloody hell can't we?




posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:02 PM
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originally posted by: DAZ21
a reply to: blupblup

That's just propaganda that you've posted..

Sad thing is people will read that and believe it...
The guy clearly prefers propaganda to debating the UKIP manifesto.
I agree though, it is a pity that many unthinking types will just believe such tabloidesque silliness.
I did ask in the OP for mature debate about UKIP's manifesto, not childish soundbites, but hey, every thread can expect some of that I guess.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: stumason

Because Merkel said so...

would be funny, if it wasn't true.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:07 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: blupblup

So, which bit of the published manifesto as linked in the OP are you describing as nasty?



Wow.... I'm Stewart Lee?? Where's all the money and fancy stuff in that case?





How about instead engaging in mature debate and telling me why YOU think my protest vote based on a wish for the UK to have a referendum on the EU could be deemed nasty or disagreeable to you?
UKIP is the only party I can vote for which reflects my views on EU membership, you know, the only party supporting controlled immigration from the EU similar to those other 'nasty' or 'racist' countries like Canada, New Zealand, Australia, the US...



So you have literally one issue... one issue that you care about and everyone and everything else be damned??
The NHS will be sold off under UKIP, far worse than under the Tories... environment and education will suffer hugely.
In fact almost every aspect of life for most people will get worse...but good old Nige will rescue us from the evils of Europe so everything is OK.

Farage is a snake... as someone mentioned, a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I've resisted this thread because it's pointless to debate anything and I don't want to be like some of the US politics threads where everyone is foaming at the mouth and circular, entrenched arguments are the norm.

Vote UKIP... vote whoever you like and why ever you like, it's your absolute right to do so.
But UKIP are nasty and are dangerous and just because some decent and honest people have been duped and reeled in by Farage and his bollocks, doesn't somehow make them a decent, viable alternative.

They're not.

I have no problem with controlled immigration or allowing people to have a referendum.
But I would never, ever vote for the likes of UKIP in order to achieve it.

Farage is a Thatcherite and is MORE Tory than the Tories.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:08 PM
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a reply to: stumason

Very well put Stu, yet another example of your honesty and reasoned stance as a non-UKIP supporter.
I was going to reply similar myself but he'd replied to you and I knew your response would be a superior explanation of the various European options a free UK will be able to choose from.

...and choose is the right word. Anyone who thinks EU nations won't strike mutually beneficial trade agreements with us within hours of a UK vote out is just failing to understand the power of business and corporations over governments.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:10 PM
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originally posted by: DAZ21
a reply to: blupblup

That's just propaganda that you've posted..

Sad thing is people will read that and believe it...



Actually it's called comedy... which is why a comedian said it.
But I suppose like most comedy - it stems from truth and is highlighting an important social issue.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: blupblup
But UKIP are nasty and are dangerous

Which particular published policies of UKIP do you attribute the emotive term of 'nasty and dangerous' exactly?
I provided a link to their manifesto in the OP and requested that we debate the things found in the document.
It appears clear that the consensus of opinion is that they are not racist as I have not really had to defend my OP title that much, so which of their published policies are now nasty in your mind?

...I certainly would not vote for a party with 'nasty' published policies.
Hyperbole much?



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

Why discuss the manifesto of a party that wont be winning enough seats to form a majority government?
They could write absolutely any old ****? They don't have to do any of it do they?

Carry on... I just thought I'd post something humorous and apt.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: grainofsand

Why discuss the manifesto of a party that wont be winning enough seats to form a majority government?
They could write absolutely any old ****? They don't have to do any of it do they?

Carry on... I just thought I'd post something humorous and apt.



Odd - There we are being told that none of the parties is going to be able to form a majority government, in which case, what is the point of discussing any of their manifesto's then?



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: blupblup

You want to just be humorous then I shall ignore you fella, I am only interested in mature political debate in this thread.
You made the claims that UKIP is 'nasty and dangerous' so I asked which bits of their published manifesto you feel deserve such an emotive title.
You now respond with "Why discuss the manifesto of a party that wont be winning enough seats to form a majority government? "

Do you wish to have reasoned and sensible political debate based on the published policies of UKIP, or are you just going to share unreferenced assertions from a comedian in your contributions here?
If you disagree with specific UKIP policies then please do educate me and everyone else, but '"UKIP are nasty and dangerous" is a childlike political argument.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: stumason

Odd - There we are being told that none of the parties is going to be able to form a majority government, in which case, what is the point of discussing any of their manifesto's then?



Not sure I said I wanted to?

Anyway... UKIP are a decent, loving and fair party for the working class people of Britain.
All of the incidents of their candidates referring to bongo bongo land or saying Lenny Henry should go home and the multitude of other incidents are all just misunderstandings.
UKIP don't condone or endorse this way of thinking and they can't help it that lots of people who are racist, xenophobic, hateful and dangerous are joining them and running as candidates without being properly vetted.

I mean Godfrey Bloom who served almost 10 years as a UKIP MEP and shared a flat with Farage... obviously Farage wouldn't have know he was like that, how could he??

Denying what kind of party UKIP are and what they attract is at best ignorant and at worst pure BS, lies and propaganda.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: blupblup

Anyone found breaking the rules in UKIP have been kicked out quick as a flash, which is a damn sight faster than any of the other main parties handle things.
There are likely racist members of all political parties (and worse) to differing degrees, but a party is judged and should be voted for on it's published policies.

I judge all the other parties, and vote or not based solely on their published policies. There are enough bad apples in all of them, but UKIP is the only one which is a vote for a referendum on membership of the EU.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: blupblup

All quite irrelvant as well, if you're trying to tarnish UKIP, because there are people of all the political parties who've said stupid crap, done stupid crap or in fact done downright awful crap.

Quite why you think this high standard should only be applied to UKIP, while simultaneously giving every other party a free pass is a bit strange..

Labour candidate suspended over racist tweets

Labour MP poses for picture with his son "blacked up" - previously he also insulted disabled children, calling them vegetables. No action taken by the Party.

Lab our candidate in Wales says he is "sickened" by England flags and thinks anyone who flies them is a s"simpleton and a racist" - No action taken by the party.

Tory candidate makes "anti-Jewish slur" against Milliband

Labour candidate urges electors to vote for "Asian candidates" - No action taken by the Party

Anyway, that's just the tip of the iceberg and I've made my point - which in case you missed it is that if you're going to go down the "UKIP are vile racists" route, you also must apply that thinking to the other parties as well.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: blupblup

I'm sure if the BBC started calling Labour racist you'd eat that up too?

A few people don't make a political party. I could find various establishment MPs that if we judged the party by their morals and standards and were forced fed it over and over again you'd start to believe that those parties were just as bad if not worse.

Tell me I'm not too sure but have they found any paedophiles in UKIP yet or is that just the other bunch.

What? you mean you're going to vote for a bunch of paedophiles, maybe we should start labelling you aswell...

You see how easy it is to do what you're doing.?
edit on 3-5-2015 by DAZ21 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 03:00 PM
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originally posted by: DAZ21
Tell me I'm not too sure but have they found any paedophiles in UKIP yet or is that just the other bunch.

Yep sadly I found a UKIP supporting paedo and posted it earlier:
Bury Times Newspaper


A FORMER chairman of Bury's UK Independence Party has been jailed for grooming children and possessing nearly 200,000 indecent images of children.

Peter Entwistle spoke to children on MSN Messenger and other social network sites in a sexualised manner, asking them to commit sexual acts for his own satisfaction, Bolton Crown Court heard today.


Any national organisation is likely to share it's own percentage of the population who are paedo's, same with thieves, or any other type of criminal we can think of. Some more than other I would imagine, but it is not a world I'm involved in so I can only go on published party policies.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 03:08 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

Exactly - any large organisation is likely to have within it's ranks it's share of freaks, weirdo's, perverts and racists. It's what that organisation does about those people when discovered that should form opinion on said organisation, not the accusations themselves.

It is also true that any organisation that grows quickly, like the SNP or UKIP, is likely to not properly vet those applicants owing to being overwhelmed and the fact some are more likely to slip the net.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 03:15 PM
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originally posted by: stumason
It is also true that any organisation that grows quickly, like the SNP or UKIP, is likely to not properly vet those applicants owing to being overwhelmed and the fact some are more likely to slip the net.
That is certainly true compared to the resources of long established national political parties.
I would cut the same slack to the SNP and any candidate/supporter issues they may have. I judge them on their policies alone as well, although I obviously do not have a Scottish National candidate standing where I live.

I like that they are against the commercial growing and sale of GM crops for the first time ever on our island though, so if it is a landslide victory for them in Scotland I will appreciate their voice when Labour/Conservatives/Lib-Dem are all going to allow it in the next planting season. They may be able to horse-trade and change Labour's stance.

For balance:
Plaid Cymru and the Greens are against GM crops, and UKIP are supporting a free vote in Parliament for MP's.

*Edit*
For further balance:
Sinn Fein opposes GM crops in Northern Ireland while the DUP/UUP/SDLP/Alliance/ and TUV parties do not appear to have any policies opposing GM crops.
edit on 3.5.2015 by grainofsand because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:00 PM
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I'm crashing out now, so if anyone wishes to share their views on why they think UKIP are, or are not, racist/nasty/dangerous, please do contribute your thoughts here and we can enjoy some interesting discussion after my long lay in bed tomorrow.

UKIP ARE THE ONLY PARTY FORCING THE DISCUSSION ON EU MEMBERSHIP AND IMMIGRATION.
CAMERON HAS ONLY OFFERED THE REFERENDUM ON EU MEMBERSHIP BECAUSE OF UKIP.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 07:53 PM
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Have UKIP clarified their position on TAFTA/TTIP yet?



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 08:40 PM
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originally posted by: cosmic66
Have UKIP clarified their position on TAFTA/TTIP yet?


There doesn't appear to be an official policy on it, but then TTIP is an EU/USA thing, so it stands to reason that a party opposed to the EU would be opposed to TTIP. Mark Reckless, the Tory defector to UKIP, is on record as opposing it.



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