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Freddie Gray's Death Ruled a Homicide; 6 Officers Charged!

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posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:03 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra
Except so many people don't make it to their trial alive.... Like Gray for example.




posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:03 PM
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a reply to: TKDRL

Nope, he is a martyr now. You know this and I know this.

If he weren't a martyr then you would be talking about the MORE white people who are killed. But no, let's not talk about that.

I gave the links, read them.


ETA: I just read this...now tell me he is not considered a martyr Jesse Jackson calls Freddie Gray a martyr


Gray was remembered as a man who in his youth enjoyed church and sports and in his death has become a “martyr,” according to Jesse Jackson, the civil rights activist who delivered closing remarks at the two-and-a-half-hour service.


No? Jesse Jackson wrong for saying it?


edit on 5/3/2015 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy
What makes you think I am unaware, and have never talked about it? Because I am participating on a thread about a black man killed by police, I must not know about any white people killed by police?



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra



here is my problem with this...

if people want to be able to say this cop broke the law, then that person needs to go to school, become an attorney, a prosecuting attorney and then go from there.

Demanding a person be charged without knowing / understanding the law is just as bad as the crime itself. Both actions are based on the complete ignorance of what the law says / complete ignorance in following the law.



i am not saying people can complain and police get charged. But if those given to position of determining think there is criminal action then they should be taken to trial and let the system do the process. The same people in position also shouldn't overlook evidence and give a pass.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

There must always exist the opposing view point for society to advance.

One of my favorite quotes -

America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free".


I love my job and cant think of doing anything else with my life. I like interacting with people and hearing them talk, complain, yell at me, etc. I like taking the time, when possible, to engage them in their issues and with hope leave them more educated, and vice versa, than when we started.

Communication is part of the solution, in both directions, civilians to police and police to civilians. If you are going to come yell at me fine, but extend the courtesy of hearing my response is all I ask.

In these threads I point out the laws in question and almost always people bitch at me and call me names etc. What they fail to understand is they are seeing the playbook. They are seeing the very law that allows the action they don't like in the first place. if they were smart and wanted real change they could take that law, study it, and alter it in a way that addresses what they don't like about it and find ways to resolve the issues.

Instead people would rather yell, accuse, invoke race instead of taking the easy action of fixing the problem. Its easy to throw rocks from the outside.

It takes courage to walk into the house and fix things from the inside and almost always results in something better than when you first started.

As for the 1960's compared to know. Look at the number of deaths involving law enforcement. Look at the number of laws created / removed / enforced that moved our law enforcement away from a secret police to what we have now.

Are things bad? sure.

Are they worse than the 1960's +/-? I was born in the 1970s so from what I have seen / studied I would say things are better and are still getting better.

I refuse to blame the government for the actions of individuals. I refuse to believe the purpose of government is to provide me with money, food and jobs. I refuse to accept the concept of group accountability over that of individual accountability. I refuse to accept the punishment of the group over the actions of the individual.

If that makes me wrong, a bad police officer and bad person, then so be it I guess.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:14 PM
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originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: Xcathdra
Except so many people don't make it to their trial alive.... Like Gray for example.


Which is why the state prosecutes.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:15 PM
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originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: WarminIndy
What makes you think I am unaware, and have never talked about it? Because I am participating on a thread about a black man killed by police, I must not know about any white people killed by police?


I don't see you talking about it.

So let's talk about it. That is real dialogue.

Freddie Gray was a repeat offender. Freddie Gray ran away from the police. That makes probable cause. The police didn't know if he had a gun or not. The police had to determine that.

What made him run away when the police were not looking for him in the first place? It's not like he was jogging.

Freddie Gray himself was paranoid enough to run, when no one else in the neighborhood was running away. If only one runs away when the police show up, then the police are going to ask why. Probable cause.

His behavior alerted the police, not his skin color, not the t-shirt he was wearing, not the coffee in his hand, not the friend he was talking to, not anything else except the fact that Freddie Gray chose to run away when there was no reason to.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:17 PM
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a reply to: Greathouse

Reasonable suspicion is one step below probable cause.

A traffic stop can be based on R/S a crime occurred.
An arrest for murder must be based on probable cause.

A traffic stop based on R/S results in an investigation resulting in P/C a crime occurred / citation issued or no crime occurred / warning / person free to go.

If I charge a person for DWI I have to explain the situation / crime / evidence to support my charge.

As for the judge comment that's part of the judicial branch and is there thing. Once my investigation is completed and submitted my level of interest in how the PA handles the case and its outcomes is not something I overly concern myself with (there are some exceptions of course).
If I concerned myself with the outcome and how its presented I wouldn't be able to sleep / do my job.
edit on 3-5-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-5-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: Phage


She's a triple threat, being young, female and a minority.



She's definitely a triple threat to the establishment that created the current police culture.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: Phage

I'm not the one whose using race as a reason to justify violence, but I am pointing out the fact that race IS a big issue here. Making an observation isn't the same race baiting.

This is about the police, time and time again, unjustly killing black men and women. That's why the activist group Black Lives Matter, is the group making headlines.

Yeah, I'm suggesting that State Attorney Mosby represents a triple threat to the machine, due to her minority status, youth and gender is naive. She needs to "learn her place" on 3 levels.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy
That doesn't give the police the privilege of killing people in their custody. He was falsely arrested and killed by the police. Seems like he had a really good reason to want to run to me. Running from the cops is not probable cause for arrest, sorry bub. If you want to talk about other people killed by cops, by all means, start a thread. That is not what this thread is about.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:21 PM
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originally posted by: roadgravel

i am not saying people can complain and police get charged. But if those given to position of determining think there is criminal action then they should be taken to trial and let the system do the process. The same people in position also shouldn't overlook evidence and give a pass.



Except a person is never just taken to trial. A criminal complaint comes first and an investigation occurs to see if the law was even broken. If its not it ends right there. If there was then we go through the process.

If a person is going to accuse someone of killing another person, there they must have evidence to support the charge. As for prosecutorial conduct and discretion that's another area people need to educate themselves on and must understand before wading into that area.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:23 PM
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originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: Phage


She's a triple threat, being young, female and a minority.



She's definitely a triple threat to the establishment that created the current police culture.



The establishment in Baltimore is predominately black, including the state and federal representation. Are you suggesting blacks are to blame?

Is this really a racial issue or is that just an excuse?



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:24 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: WarminIndy

There must always exist the opposing view point for society to advance.

One of my favorite quotes -

America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free".


I love my job and cant think of doing anything else with my life. I like interacting with people and hearing them talk, complain, yell at me, etc. I like taking the time, when possible, to engage them in their issues and with hope leave them more educated, and vice versa, than when we started.

Communication is part of the solution, in both directions, civilians to police and police to civilians. If you are going to come yell at me fine, but extend the courtesy of hearing my response is all I ask.

In these threads I point out the laws in question and almost always people bitch at me and call me names etc. What they fail to understand is they are seeing the playbook. They are seeing the very law that allows the action they don't like in the first place. if they were smart and wanted real change they could take that law, study it, and alter it in a way that addresses what they don't like about it and find ways to resolve the issues.

Instead people would rather yell, accuse, invoke race instead of taking the easy action of fixing the problem. Its easy to throw rocks from the outside.

It takes courage to walk into the house and fix things from the inside and almost always results in something better than when you first started.

As for the 1960's compared to know. Look at the number of deaths involving law enforcement. Look at the number of laws created / removed / enforced that moved our law enforcement away from a secret police to what we have now.

Are things bad? sure.

Are they worse than the 1960's +/-? I was born in the 1970s so from what I have seen / studied I would say things are better and are still getting better.

I refuse to blame the government for the actions of individuals. I refuse to believe the purpose of government is to provide me with money, food and jobs. I refuse to accept the concept of group accountability over that of individual accountability. I refuse to accept the punishment of the group over the actions of the individual.

If that makes me wrong, a bad police officer and bad person, then so be it I guess.




I can't say I disagree with anything.

I remember well the movie with Al Pacino And Justice For All, and he was in Serpico. Those two movies really woke people up. Even Dirty Harry was the same message.

My favorite scene in Dirty Harry was when he was being called in to be questioned over shooting a rapist, he said "That's my policy".



We have come a long way since then. But the same issues then are now.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:28 PM
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originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: WarminIndy
That doesn't give the police the privilege of killing people in their custody. He was falsely arrested and killed by the police. Seems like he had a really good reason to want to run to me. Running from the cops is not probable cause for arrest, sorry bub. If you want to talk about other people killed by cops, by all means, start a thread. That is not what this thread is about.


No, I will stay here because it is still on topic.

Race is not the issue, reasonable suspicion is.

What was the really good reason at that moment? Tell us please.

The police weren't chasing anyone else.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:29 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Cause you keep implying she doesn't.

It might have been hasty and done to quell things, or there is a sufficient evidence that we don't know about.
Do you think she made the call with no advice from a lawyer(s)?



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:30 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy
Because those cops he ran from killed him.......
Reasonable suspicion does not give police the role of punisher.

edit on Sun, 03 May 2015 18:30:55 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: WarminIndy
Because those cops he ran from killed him.......
Reasonable suspicion does not give police the role of punisher.


No wait...let's back up here...

You say he ran because he KNEW they were going to kill him?

What are you saying here? I don't understand your point.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra



Except a person is never just taken to trial. A criminal complaint comes first and an investigation occurs to see if the law was even broken. If its not it ends right there. If there was then we go through the process.


Of course. That is why society has people educated for and working at those duties. Every citizen doesn't need a law degree as long as they can trust those in the position. Trust is a big part of the big issue in these cases.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:43 PM
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originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: Xcathdra



Except a person is never just taken to trial. A criminal complaint comes first and an investigation occurs to see if the law was even broken. If its not it ends right there. If there was then we go through the process.


Of course. That is why society has people educated for and working at those duties. Every citizen doesn't need a law degree as long as they can trust those in the position. Trust is a big part of the big issue in these cases.


Which of those with law degrees to you trust? Do you trust everyone with a law degree?

Hmm, dangerous position there. History has proven that we should not just trust anyone.

Hillary Clinton has a law degree. Lots of people don't trust her.



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