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Freddie Gray's Death Ruled a Homicide; 6 Officers Charged!

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posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

So making crap up that doesn't align with reality is an example of critical thinking?
edit on bu312015-05-02T14:40:01-05:0002America/ChicagoSat, 02 May 2015 14:40:01 -05002u15 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: butcherguy

There was a lengthy foot pursuit before hand and it looks like a taser was deployed before arrest. He entered the van under his own power. So I would agree...

how many of those stops dealt with Gray and how many of those stops dealt with picking up the 2nd arrestee?



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc




Post after post you have described a situation where Mr. Gray did this to him self.

But that is possible, especially with a toxicology report that indicates he had drugs in his system.


Again with your faux authoritative "facts"?! Medical professionals disagree with you.


Internal medicine professional Dave Belk speculates that Gray likely suffered a hyperextension injury, telling ThinkProgress that the damage done to Gray’s spine would require an untold amount of force.

“Freddie Gray didn’t stand up in the back of that van and twist his back,” Belk said. “What it would take to break a person’s spine is heavy trauma. The spine is so guarded, so an injury like his would take a lot of force like jumping from a second floor building or getting hit by a motor vehicle. It doesn’t just happen out of nowhere.”

Other medical professionals agree. Dr. David Samadi, an expert in robotic prostrate surgery and a medical correspondent for several news outlets, wrote an op-ed for the New York Daily News that also challenged the Baltimore Police Department’s version of events, saying that even if Freddie Gray tried to injure himself in the police van, he couldn’t have done so in a way that would cause serious spinal cord injuries.

“There must be a sudden, traumatic blow to the spine that fractures, dislocates, crushes or compresses one or more of the vertebrae, or when a gun shot or knife penetrates the spinal cord,” Samadi wrote.

“You have to apply a significant amount of force in order to break somebody’s neck,” Dr. Ali Bydon, an associate professor of neurosurgery at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, agreed in an interview with the Baltimore Sun.
thinkprogress.org...




The fact that you are not well aquainted with the truth is a historical fact. Please tell me what makes a urologist an "expert" on spinal injuries and, when do you accept "Faux News" as a valid source? Or, being a typical hypocrite, you disregard somone who is on Fox until you agree with what they say.

So apparently I've got my own deranged Internet stalker now, nice.



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

These professionals happen to be privy to Grey's hospital medical reports, are you or Navydoc?


edit on 2-5-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: NavyDoc

So making crap up that doesn't align with reality is an example of critical thinking?


What "crap" did I make up? I've seem people on narcotics hurt themselves very badly, as any ER doc can share with you.



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: windword

They are not privy to the autopsy documents are they considering its those documents that determines cause of death.

secondly, as I pointed out and you apparently ignored, what part of the word speculate did you not understand? it was used in the first part of your response by your own source. Why would he need to speculate if he has access to material he shouldn't?

Here -

originally posted by: windword
Again with your faux authoritative "facts"?! Medical professionals disagree with you.


really?


Internal medicine professional Dave Belk speculates that Gray ..........


ok
edit on 2-5-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-5-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:43 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Xcathdra

These professionals happen to be privy to Grey's hospital medical reports, are you or Navydoc?



No they were not. The Fox News urologist nor the internal medicine doc were not. Now I'm rather amused that you, of all people, are using Fox News as a reference. Is Fox reliable or not?



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




really?


Internal medicine professional Dave Belk speculates that Gray ..........


Read the article, you've taken your "speculation" out of context. And you accuse me of skimming the facts!



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

Leaked toxicology report? :-)


Still must be considered as a possability

Why must it? We know nothing - all we can do is speculate

Maybe we should also consider that Mr. Gray was a terrorist - or that he was the first victim of the zombie apocalypse


On Thursday, a Washington television station, WJLA, reported that according to unnamed law enforcement sources, “the medical examiner found Gray’s catastrophic injury was caused when he slammed into the back of the police transport van, apparently breaking his neck.”

But Bruce Goldfarb, a spokesman for the state office of the chief medical examiner, said, “We don’t do preliminary findings, and the investigation isn’t concluded.” In addition, officials briefed on the investigations cast doubt on the report.

Emphasis mine
Police commanders said more than 30 detectives, operating on an unusually swift timetable, had been working on the investigation.

Leaked reports are useless - and suspicious. But as far as that goes - there was a leaked report that the other guy in the van (rather conveniently) reported that it sounded like Mr. Gray was trying to injure himself

“And they trying to make it seem like I told them that, I made it like Freddie Gray did that to hisself (sic),” Allen said. “Why the [expletive] would he do that to hisself (sic)?”

Why, one hardly knows what to believe at this point

Am I right Navy?

:-)
edit on 5/2/2015 by Spiramirabilis because: always something...



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

But yet you are willing to state that he had drugs in his system as fact...

How would one self inflict the injury Mr. Gray received?
With the context of being handcuffed and shackled.



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: butcherguy

* - Missouri Man Stabs Himself to Death During Chase (Foot Pursuit)

* - Man slits his throat in Dallas courtroom after judge issues 40-year sentence

* - Homeless man sets himself on fire amid pub crawl

* - Andre Thomas, Texas Death Row Inmate, Pulls Out Eye, Eats it

Why do people find it impossible that people can inflict such sever pain and suffering on themselves?

I have seen a guy with 2 visually broken arms he received during a his crash while trying to flee police. The meth he was on masked the pain very well.

PCP inhibits pain receptors.
Heroine can inhibit pain.

WebMD -


How Opioids Work

Opioid drugs work by binding to opioid receptors in the brain, spinal cord, and other areas of the body. They reduce the sending of pain messages to the brain and reduce feelings of pain.

Opioids are used to treat moderate to severe pain that may not respond well to other pain medications.

I don't see where a guy crushed 3 vertebrae in his neck because he was on heroin.
You know what I can show you though?

Where a guy named Dondi Johnson was put into a
Baltimore Police prisoner transport van without a severed spine and he had one when they opened the van back up. He died too. The city paid a big settlement on that one. I guess their lawyers told them not to try the old 'he did it to himself because he was on heroin' defense.
Oh, what was the offense that he died for? Urinating in public.



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: Wolfenz

Sellers, 59, who is Booze's brother and lives on the same block, said he was among those who started moving toward Gray, and saw police beating him. "They were taking their black batons, whatever they are, and hitting him," Sellers said.


I do not think they use batons, but I could be wrong. The police like to put their knee on the persons neck as a restraint, and I'm wondering with his prior spinal injuries if this wasn't where much of the damage took place.




From inside her Gilmor Homes apartment, which overlooks the street north of Baker, Jacqueline Jackson, 53, heard "a big commotion" as she was washing dishes. She lifted her blinds and window and peered out, looking down on the van. Gray, she said, looked unresponsive. Officers were moving quickly to get him back in the van as people ran down the street from Presbury, Jackson said. "They lifted him up by his pants, and he wasn't responding, and they threw him in that paddy wagon," Jackson said. "It wasn't like they took him out to see what was going on with him. … I said, 'Call the paramedics!'"


I read where there is cell video of him being half dragged half walked to the van and that he step into the van, not thrown in. I'm sure a lot will come out in the cell videos people had, but much like the Brown case, about 80% of eye witness reports totally conflicted with the physical evidence.






Police have said that a preliminary report on Gray's autopsy showed he had no injuries except to his spinal cord. No evidence of kicks, punches or other beatings. No evidence of broken limbs.


Why He Die ? Why was he Wired for Brain Activity ??? as the Photo Shows!


I guess we will see... Rough engagements when they first took him down, followed by heavy physical restraint to include a knee to the neck, could not breath.... The cops most definitely screwed up by not being aware that he had medical issues and ignored them, they also screwed up by not restraining him in a seat belt, and finally by arresting him in the first place... That all has serious connotations, But there is a difference in the level, such as did they beat him to death or did he die due to negligence?



edit on 2-5-2015 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

He told me to give it to him. I complied. Bare in mind this was a good 13 or so years ago.



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: NavyDoc

Leaked toxicology report? :-)


Still must be considered as a possability

Why must it? We know nothing - all we can do is speculate

Maybe we should also consider that Mr. Gray was a terrorist - or that he was the first victim of the zombie apocalypse


On Thursday, a Washington television station, WJLA, reported that according to unnamed law enforcement sources, “the medical examiner found Gray’s catastrophic injury was caused when he slammed into the back of the police transport van, apparently breaking his neck.”

But Bruce Goldfarb, a spokesman for the state office of the chief medical examiner, said, “We don’t do preliminary findings, and the investigation isn’t concluded.” In addition, officials briefed on the investigations cast doubt on the report.

Emphasis mine
Police commanders said more than 30 detectives, operating on an unusually swift timetable, had been working on the investigation.

Leaked reports are useless - and suspicious. But as far as that goes - there was a leaked report that the other guy in the van (rather conveniently) reported that it sounded like he was trying to injure himself

“And they trying to make it seem like I told them that, I made it like Freddie Gray did that to hisself (sic),” Allen said. “Why the [expletive] would he do that to hisself (sic)?”

Why, one hardly knows what to believe at this point

Am I right Navy?

:-)
What's your point? If it is that we don't know what happened and that there are various possabilites, I agree with you.



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




They are not privy to the autopsy documents are they considering its those documents that determines cause of death.


We don't need autopsy reports to know Grey's condition. He was in the hospital for a week before he died. We have all those hospital records, that were written by several doctors and nurses who diagnosed and tended to him.


ETA: I would imagine an autopsy would reveal that he had an unimaginable amount of drugs in his system, including heroin, (morphine).



edit on 2-5-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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Three of the six police officers arrested were African Americans. That gives the prime example that this corruption goes beyond racial lines now doesn't it? If in fact they are truly guilty police, people need to finally see that these threats are not only towards certain races ie "thugs"(word of the moment), but rather the corruption goes beyond that as shared in other news. There's something really wrong here and being divided isn't going to help.



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: NavyDoc

So you saw a guy on heroin gouge his own eyes out?


Yeah. I've seen a lot of crap and there are a lot of possibilities that a logical person with critical thinking skills must consider.

You should write a paper on the case, because it is not the effect that heroin has on people.


I wouldn't want to go against the opinion of a medical doctor normally. But in this case I would deem it far more likely that a heroin addict in withdrawl would gouge their eyes out before I would think a medicated addict would.
edit on 2-5-2015 by Greathouse because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: NavyDoc

So making crap up that doesn't align with reality is an example of critical thinking?


What "crap" did I make up? I've seem people on narcotics hurt themselves very badly, as any ER doc can share with you.
Did you or did you not see a person under the influence of heroin gouge their own eyes out?



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: butcherguy

* - Missouri Man Stabs Himself to Death During Chase (Foot Pursuit)

* - Man slits his throat in Dallas courtroom after judge issues 40-year sentence

* - Homeless man sets himself on fire amid pub crawl

* - Andre Thomas, Texas Death Row Inmate, Pulls Out Eye, Eats it

Why do people find it impossible that people can inflict such sever pain and suffering on themselves?

I have seen a guy with 2 visually broken arms he received during a his crash while trying to flee police. The meth he was on masked the pain very well.

PCP inhibits pain receptors.
Heroine can inhibit pain.

WebMD -


How Opioids Work

Opioid drugs work by binding to opioid receptors in the brain, spinal cord, and other areas of the body. They reduce the sending of pain messages to the brain and reduce feelings of pain.

Opioids are used to treat moderate to severe pain that may not respond well to other pain medications.

I don't see where a guy crushed 3 vertebrae in his neck because he was on heroin.
You know what I can show you though?

Where a guy named Dondi Johnson was put into a
Baltimore Police prisoner transport van without a severed spine and he had one when they opened the van back up. He died too. The city paid a big settlement on that one. I guess their lawyers told them not to try the old 'he did it to himself because he was on heroin' defense.
Oh, what was the offense that he died for? Urinating in public.


Where did I say that? I simply said that if he had heroin in his system, it could have been possible because, and this is very logical if you bother to think, people on opiates do not know how badly they are hurting. Ever see a new post op patient shear a femur because he ft "good enough to walk?" I have.



posted on May, 2 2015 @ 02:54 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Xcathdra




They are not privy to the autopsy documents are they considering its those documents that determines cause of death.


We don't need autopsy reports to know Grey's condition. He was in the hospital for a week before he died. We have all those hospital records, that were written by several doctors and nurses who diagnosed and tended to him.


ETA: I would imagine an autopsy would reveal that he had an unimaginable amount of drugs in his system, including heroin, (morphine).




What? That does not even make sense. "He died in the hospital so the doc must have murdered him." Please look up correlation vs causation.



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