Putin's Propaganda Machine.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: mSparks43

because personally I'm of the opinion that dropping heavy artillery on your civilians because they voted against you counts as a crime.

It wasn't because they voted against them...it was because of the armed separatist movement that was fighting against the Ukraine gov't.

When you fire heavy weapons from behind human shields in war...civilian casualties will happen, as that is a sad part of war.

And yes,the separatists were using the civilian population as their human shields...

www.themoscowtimes.com...

news.sky.com...

ukraine-truth.com...

news.yahoo.com...

childrendeservefamilies.com...

You forgot about Russians shelling thwm from there own territory killing civilians. Russian grad rockets are about the most in acurate mass destruction weopon out there. Just the fact they use this shows how little regard they have for civilian casualties. These are not like western artillery which can now hit a tank. Russia doesn't have that so they rely on lots of rockets hitting into an area.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The chain of events seems quite clear.
even the BBC has a nice write up on it.
www.bbc.com...

Viktor Yanukovych is elected (by hook or by crook) prime minister. Tells the EU to stick its "make the rich richer and the poor poorer" projects up it's ass. Ukraine wants to go more with the "make goods and services cheaper and higher quality" model used by the Russians.
Lots of rich people were upset with this, and they declare the vote corrupt.

Viktor Yanukovych is murdered, they replace him with a violent nutjob that starts shooting any pro russian demonstrators dead in the street, while letting pro EU supporters hold large (western funded) protests for the cameras.

Eastern Ukraine and Crimea don't believe it, declare they want out (with some places 90% in favour of distancing themselves from the EU). Russia sends a ton of support to kick out Ukrainian soldiers. Who, faced with mass civilian protests and a load of Russian firepower backing them up leave peacefully.

Eastern Ukraine starts bombing the bejesus out of all the towns and cities that voted for Russia. Crimea remains relatively peacefull.

now, with US support, have started doing so again.
www.bbc.com...

That is my impression anyway. I take a view and defend it. willing to listen and change that view. Are you?

I got a simple rule.
Violence is the last resort of the incompetent.
In this case
Russia achieved its goals (almost totally) non violently.
EU, US and the UK (like always these days) had to resort to the most extreme, repulsive violence the world knows.

Also, "new newspeak"
human shields = cilivians who support the other side.

wanna see how repulsive that term is? (stating categorically I find this repulsive)
Here's it being used on the twin towers.
911 was fine, the bankers shouldn't have been using all those human shields to protect the twin towers.

Perhaps, maybe, you should think twice before using that term.

hope my point is clear and i didn't cause to much upset. pretty much expecting this post to get deleted

Wow your information is wrong by the way did the Russians kill Viktor Yanukovych?? You said he was murdered last I heard is he fled to Russia with millions. I mean I wouldn't doubt Putin had him killed but I Havnt heard anything. As far as the rest stop watching RT they lied to you.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h

Enjoy.

Just wondering if you looked for a video on who the US silences dissent in the US? Was such a video not be found or was it that you chose not to post it because I am sure you would agree that the US also silences its critics, don't you agree?

a reply to: dragonridr

->lead to the destruction of capitolism and western ideals

Good.

Capitalism is doomed anyway.
www.businessinsider.com...

Only a matter of time. And if you look around you you'll see we basically already own you.
Question that remains is. Do you actually know what "socialism" is?

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

->lead to the destruction of capitolism and western ideals

Good.

Capitalism is doomed anyway.
www.businessinsider.com...

Only a matter of time. And if you look around you you'll see we basically already own you.
Question that remains is. Do you actually know what "socialism" is?

Yes but if you think Russia is socialist than you dont. As far as capitolism it isn't going anywhere as we can see countries like China are moving to it. They realized you can't control a billion people with communism. As far as your other threats well there just kind if sad. I welcome you to try though in case you havnt figured it out capitolism has already destroyed Russia. They are a dead man walking the Russian economy is shot even their government moneymaker Gazprom is reporting losses. They already have strikes going on because businesses can't pay their people. And to make matters worse The EU is filling charges against them for monolpoly. In a couple of years Russia won't be able to afford a pickup truck much less tanks.

a reply to: dragonridr

you think china is becoming capitalist?

damn that's the funniest thing I've heard in a while.

sounds like you are attributing a ton of things to capitalism that have absolutely nothing to do with it.

but you keep working for your employers profit and I'm sure someday you'll be rich.

you mean this broken economy?

www.newsweek.com...

oops.

hint
cheaper goods higher quality = win for the people.

not without its problems for sure. but what isn't?

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

you think china is becoming capitalist?

damn that's the funniest thing I've heard in a while.

sounds like you are attributing a ton of things to capitalism that have absolutely nothing to do with it.

but you keep working for your employers profit and I'm sure someday you'll be rich.

you mean this broken economy?

www.newsweek.com...

oops.

hint
cheaper goods higher quality = win for the people.

not without its problems for sure. but what isn't?

Sorry news week isn't the best source for economic news.

I meant this:
The Great Debate
The EU may soon have Gazprom and Vladimir Putin running on fumes

blogs.reuters.com...

Oh and this :

Russia's Gazprom profits collapse on low oil, weak ruble
money.cnn.com...

And of course this :


In the far east, the teachers went on strike. In central Russia, it was the employees of a metallurgical plant. In St. Petersburg, autoworkers laid down their tools. And at a remote construction site in Siberia, laborers painted their complaints in gigantic white letters on the roofs of their dormitories.
mobile.nytimes.com...

And we'll here's some more like beating a dead horse huh??

Russia’s top supermarket chains are to freeze prices on basic foodstuffs for two months, soaking up the costs as food is expected to eat up half of Russians’ incomes this year.
rt.com...

Oh and this


Russian economy shrinks 2% as sanctions bite - Medvedev


www.bbc.com...

See you know so little about the Russian economy you believe if the Rubl we goes up the economy is improving. It's not it's just so heavily tied to the price of oil. But when the Ruble strengthens in value just gives Russians more to hide in Germany and the UK. It's so bad Putin had to make a deal if Russians bring the money back he won't prosecute them. Doubt they believe him I wouldnt. Just so you know Russia is calling for a 7 percent loss in GDP this year meaning we can expect worse.And at a time where they can't pay their employees already to.I can keep pointing out how the long term outlook For Russia is bad but you get the point. Especially after the EU cuts into Gazproms profits it's the only thing keeping the Russian economy alive.

a reply to: dragonridr
The last time I ready something that funny was when
China Shook fist at your fragrant monkey tails.
www.youtube.com...

But I'm sure you are right, and you can believe the beeb (I did say even) about what's happening in the region.
over what I see happening here with my own eyes.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr
The last time I ready something that funny was when
China Shook fist at your fragrant monkey tails.
www.youtube.com...

But I'm sure you are right, and you can believe the beeb (I did say even) about what's happening in the region.
over what I see happening here with my own eyes.

Not mine I don't live in the US But Really is that all you have?? Well let's hope China does well maybe they can buy Russia later lol. They already screwed over Putin in negotiations.

a reply to: dragonridr

well, you made a lot of things from our earlier discussions much clearer.

Probably the single, most important bit of recommended reading, which I very much doubt you are familiar with is the

PetroDollar/PetroCurrency.

Catch up with what has been happening there for the last 14 years (and that's a lot of reading) and maybe we can have a more serious discussion.
Because right now you are so far wide of the mark the only conclusion I can come to is you don't have the slightest idea what makes the world tick, or why and how these battle lines have been drawn.

I'd start with the Iranian oil bourse, and work your way backwards, forwards and sideways from there.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

well, you made a lot of things from our earlier discussions much clearer.

Probably the single, most important bit of recommended reading, which I very much doubt you are familiar with is the

PetroDollar/PetroCurrency.

Catch up with what has been happening there for the last 14 years (and that's a lot of reading) and maybe we can have a more serious discussion.
Because right now you are so far wide of the mark the only conclusion I can come to is you don't have the slightest idea what makes the world tick, or why and how these battle lines have been drawn.

I'd start with the Iranian oil bourse, and work your way backwards, forwards and sideways from there.

Funny when anyone in clueless and wants to say the US I'd going to crash first thing they try to say is the petrodollar. I really don't think the middle east is going to drop the dollar anytime soon. Per our prior conversation I showed you that the Petrodollar doesn't work the way you think it does. Even the Euro is a petro currency. What counts is GDP the US has states with a higher GDP than Russia.Hey maybe Texas could buy Russia hear it's cheap farm land and undervalued.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Western governments can have approval ratings in the toilet and the MSM will still be able to keep those who can afford it out shopping and all those that can't afford to feeling like losers and it is their own fault.

For you to try and trivialize western propaganda is disingenuous. There has never been anything like what we have here....ever.

Read this:

What makes the mainstream media mainstream

If you’ve read George Orwell’s Animal Farm  he wrote in the mid-1940s, it was a satire on the Soviet Union, a totalitarian state. It was a big hit. Everybody loved it. Turns out he wrote an introduction to Animal Farm which was suppressed. It only appeared 30 years later. Someone had found it in his papers. The introduction to Animal Farm was about "Literary Censorship in England" and what it says is that obviously this book is ridiculing the Soviet Union and its totalitarian structure. But he said England is not all that different. We don’t have the KGB on our neck, but the end result comes out pretty much the same. People who have independent ideas or who think the wrong kind of thoughts are cut out.

He talks a little, only two sentences, about the institutional structure. He asks, why does this happen? Well, one, because the press is owned by wealthy people who only want certain things to reach the public. The other thing he says is that when you go through the elite education system, when you go through the proper schools in Oxford, you learn that there are certain things it’s not proper to say and there are certain thoughts that are not proper to have. That is the socialization role of elite institutions and if you don’t adapt to that, you’re usually out. Those two sentences more or less tell the story.

Oh get your information from a Russian blog?? The information is wrong what he was criticizing western media for was the way it censors views on opisitions.George Orwell believed western media needed to fight Russian ideals head on. He wad critical of the passive nature of western press. Said this censorship could lead to the destruction of capitolism and western ideals. Basically he thought Russian propaganda should be exposed instead of ignored. Western media doesn't try to correct false narratives. Instead they let them perpetuate causing internal strife. Orwell was very smart he knew if the west didn't start fighting back against propaganda it's doomed.

You still see it today US Television almost nothing pertaining to Putins actions if he is mentioned it is only because he made a statement. Are Russian s impatiens believe the west is flooded with anti Russian propaganda it's simply not true. As far as sensorship in the west it's impossible. To many networks each with their own agenda. Hiding something from Amaricans is impossible. But what does it do to the people hearing all these desensitized opinions? Answer it creates a society where people don't trust anything. In the west none of the media has to outright change facts. As with anything their are always multiple opinions to choose from In Russia THIS Isn't the case you get 1 opinion namely Putins anyone who doesn't agree is killed or placed in jail. You can't compare the west to Russia you can compare Russia to Nazi germany and sadly it's an exact match. Hitler did the same things before world war 2 and sadly it may take a world war to remove a dictator again from power Who knows.

I think you missed the point of the paper Chomsky wrote. By the time you reach a position of influence within the media, you have already passed numerous checks and balances that assure the establishment that you either believe the narrative or are at least able to sell it convincingly. Harvard and schools like those do not teach you to be smarter than other people, they teach you how you should and shouldn't act and what you should and shouldn't say. If you make it through those filters with accreditation then you are fit to join the mainstream.

The western media more often than not, really do believe what they are pushing. it was not a result of crooked media practices, it was the result of the filters one has to go through before they can reach these positions of influence.

Oh and everything you said about the US handling of Russia and Putin is total BS to say the least.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Sure it is Putin has scammed the Russian people what do you think they will do when they find out?? He stole money from the old soviet Union and later the FSB put his cronies in power all the while starting businesses with money that didn't belong to him.Even Laundered money from the Russian mob through Spain while in charge of the FSB.

a reply to: dragonridr

They already did.
in 2012.

www.newsmax.com...
come back when you've finished catching up.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

They already did.
in 2012.

www.newsmax.com...
come back when you've finished catching up.

2 yrs ago and the US economy is growing apparently didn't do a very good job huh?? Seriously no wonder you think the Russian economy is going to be fine stop while your behind.I'm really trying hard not to laugh

a reply to: dragonridr

How Very.

Mission Accomplished

of you.

clearly the US/UK/EU has been expanding their international reach.
I mean.
Getting Crimea, South Ossetia and the most productive parts of the Ukraine
Are only a presidential signature
away from coming back into the fold.

Surely.

They let them win.

honest.

Funny enough it is RT that his assisting Americans with evacuation from Yemen.

What is FOX or CNN doing to assist?

What has the State department done to help Americans being evacuated?

Propaganda machine or not, they're doing some good for some people.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Sure it is Putin has scammed the Russian people what do you think they will do when they find out?? He stole money from the old soviet Union and later the FSB put his cronies in power all the while starting businesses with money that didn't belong to him.Even Laundered money from the Russian mob through Spain while in charge of the FSB.

Again, why would that bother a westerner like myself? I have WAY bigger thieves to worry about on my side of the pond.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

How Very.

Mission Accomplished

of you.

clearly the US/UK/EU has been expanding their international reach.
I mean.
Getting Crimea, South Ossetia and the most productive parts of the Ukraine
Are only a presidential signature
away from coming back into the fold.

Surely.

They let them win.

honest.

What you make very little sense?? Russia invaded these countries besides showing Russian imperialism not sure your point.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

I'm not even sure why he think it would bother the Russians.

I'm not sure the headlines of "Putin got money from his past and predecessors" would generate the interest he's expecting in any part of the world.