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Fear of Outcomes: UFOlogy vs Astrobiology Distrust Explained

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posted on May, 3 2015 @ 01:06 AM
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My UFO friend and my science friend annoy the hell out of each other, they can hardly talk without scoffing at each other. They barely act like they are living on the same planet.

(I wrote this two days ago but didnt post it cause its very stereotypical and thus probably wrong... But I just hung out with both my UFO friend and science friend tonight and cant help but feel even stronger that this is an honest analogy, at least in my personal experience.)

My UFO friend gives all the credit of humanities progress to aliens. He's very offensive. He's absolutely anti-religion but his arguments for the existence of aliens are no different than many faiths. He will condescend to you, and call you sheeple if you bring up the lack of evidence... even if you do it politely.

My science friend is the ultimate skeptic, and thinks he's very rational. When someone brings up a fantastic story or talks of a new invention, he is the boring guy who needs to know its true before he can indulge in it. If you talk about something that he cant find the proof for, he will ignore or mock you. Talking about something, and believing in it, seem to be the same thing to him.

Even though my UFO and science friends are on the opposite sides of the spectrum, they have a similiar problem. They both edit out a lot of data, and in doing so, semi-create their own version of reality.

My UFO friend is so sure of earth-visiting aliens he hardly even understands the importance of proof. But if he is to be taken seriously, he needs to recognize that anecdotes, cool youtube videos, historical literature and convincing witness testimony just arent enough.

And my intellectual friend is so worried that his knowledge will be muddied with speculation that he barely considers that there's a world out there beyond what has been proven in the Journal of SomethingSomething. He's the guy who poo-poo's anything outside his experience, and doesnt want to talk about it, unless there's common acceptance. 

I mean I probably shouldnt judge them but it seems to me they are both stuck in worlds that should be much bigger.

/@Jadestar I tend to post and run but wanted to say I always enjoy your threads, and appreciate your ideas.

@all the people on ATS who can talk about the UFO phenomenon without having had a personal life-changing experience, kudos. You are powerful.




posted on May, 3 2015 @ 03:37 AM
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originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Scdfa

Sorry I don't have any memory of 1950s gulfstream trailers. Not being around at the time. Maybe I've seen them on TV and never consciously thought about it.

You really need to write up your own thread scdfella instead of drip feeding tiny bits of info.

But is this 'digital representation' of an egg shaped craft close to what you are describing?










The Zamora craft was different in several ways from the craft that landed in our backyard, but it is very similar.
The craft that landed was egg shaped but upright, taller than it was wide, sort of like an egg sits in a carton.
The top and the bottom of the craft were flatter, still curved, but flatter, so it wasn't a perfect ovoid shape. The bottom of the craft sat low to the ground, maybe only two feet off the grass, the bottom of the doorway just higher than that.
The landing legs were more complicated, they were kind of folded, in a similar way to the legs of a bird, so that each leg touched the ground in two places, in an arc. Like if you took the rails off a rocking chair and re-attach them upside down, so that each end touches the ground.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 08:45 AM
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a reply to: Scdfa

Like this?


i.dailymail.co.uk...



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: draknoir2

early conditioning in that photo BRo

trithinking

funbox


edit on 3-5-2015 by funbox because: w



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 12:11 PM
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originally posted by: draknoir2
a reply to: Scdfa

Like this?


i.dailymail.co.uk...


Oh, dreknoir2, you slay me.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 12:26 PM
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originally posted by: Martianlanded
My UFO friend and my science friend annoy the hell out of each other, they can hardly talk without scoffing at each other. They barely act like they are living on the same planet.

(I wrote this two days ago but didnt post it cause its very stereotypical and thus probably wrong... But I just hung out with both my UFO friend and science friend tonight and cant help but feel even stronger that this is an honest analogy, at least in my personal experience.)


Starred your post


Thank you. I'm glad you shared your experience. I didn't write this thread flippantly, I based it upon about 3 years hovering around both circles. Obviously I am a student in the sciences but I also have had an interest in all aspects of the UFO phenomena so I have been both at large scientific conferences and at the MUFON Symposium.

I also have had conversations candidly with respected researchers from both sides and I felt from the those conversations that what lay at the core of their aversion to each other was exactly what I outlined in the original post of this thread.



My UFO friend gives all the credit of humanities progress to aliens. He's very offensive. He's absolutely anti-religion but his arguments for the existence of aliens are no different than many faiths. He will condescend to you, and call you sheeple if you bring up the lack of evidence... even if you do it politely.


Yes, this has also unfortunately been my experience in the few jaunts I've taken into UFO groups.



My science friend is the ultimate skeptic, and thinks he's very rational. When someone brings up a fantastic story or talks of a new invention, he is the boring guy who needs to know its true before he can indulge in it. If you talk about something that he cant find the proof for, he will ignore or mock you. Talking about something, and believing in it, seem to be the same thing to him.


Yes, this has also unfortunately been my experience in the skeptics society and at Mensa socials. It is a sort of rigidity borne out from rational thinking (which is perfectly fine!) But this rigidity leaves no room for indulging fanciful stories. I don't really see a problem with this, other than it gets boring. Sometimes its fun to speculate and say "what if"? But that speculation should always be clearly labelled and no one should ever mistake it for believing in something without ample evidence.



Even though my UFO and science friends are on the opposite sides of the spectrum, they have a similiar problem. They both edit out a lot of data, and in doing so, semi-create their own version of reality.


Unfortunately, this goes beyond UFOs and science and is actually a very human thing to do. Perhaps when we have conscious computers we'll see how they handle bias, including confirmation bias.

Perhaps we will also learn to discipline our minds better as a result? Perhaps a future merger, a technological singularity where our mind and the artificial one merge may be the ultimate solution to this very human problem.



My UFO friend is so sure of earth-visiting aliens he hardly even understands the importance of proof. But if he is to be taken seriously, he needs to recognize that anecdotes, cool youtube videos, historical literature and convincing witness testimony just arent enough.


Exactly. I'd argue that people like him probably should learn a bit more about standards of evidence in science. He may clamour all he wants about mainstream society and science refusing to accept his UFOs as evidence of Aliens reality but it will be like shouting in a sealed room without the window to see exactly what good, unassailable, scientifically testable proof actually is. All he is getting from people is what it is not. Obviously it is not cool youtube videos, historical literature, witness testimony. But what he probably is not getting is what actual good proof would consist of. A good familiarization with the scientific method would both help him understand why the "proof" he readily accepts is simply not good enough as well as show him the path to finding better proof.



And my intellectual friend is so worried that his knowledge will be muddied with speculation that he barely considers that there's a world out there beyond what has been proven in the Journal of SomethingSomething. He's the guy who poo-poo's anything outside his experience, and doesnt want to talk about it, unless there's common acceptance. 


Exactly. I'd argue that people like him probably should study the history of science and realize that often fruitful lines of inquiry first began as nothing but speculation. The difference of course was that speculation lead to experimentation and observation. Science is not always about what is probable. The biggest discoveries are often the improbable. You could for mention for instance the discovery of "Hot Jupiters" around other stars which were thought so improbable by one American astronomer, he didn't bother checking his data for them.... Instead a group of Swiss astronomers made no mistake, checked their data and found the first exoplanet (a Hot Jupiter) around a normal star exactly 15 years ago this October as a result. If all science did was pursue the probable then many discoveries and advances might never have come about.

As Freeman Dyson said: "Do not only look for what is probable, look for what is detectable."



I mean I probably shouldnt judge them but it seems to me they are both stuck in worlds that should be much bigger.


Well I hope i gave you some food for thought to open a conversation with both of them which could potentially help both evolve their understanding so that they can meet in the middle a little




/@Jadestar I tend to post and run but wanted to say I always enjoy your threads, and appreciate your ideas.


Thank you. I tend to post and run as well. It's just how things have to be in my life right now but I'm always going to come back and check threads out for replies as time allows.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: JadeStar

Here's a very British way of looking at this topic.



But forget the humour. Because in the spirit of fairness I also think Mr Dolan and Mr Friedman articulate themselves well in these shortish videos below. As does Seth Shostak in the final one.







They may not be able to give us a UFO in hangar or a frozen alien body but they all have an ability to engage ordinary people into this fascinating topic. Perhaps if the scientific and UFO communities find some common ground they could remove the chaff (of which there is still an awful lot) and reach the mutual objective to prove aliens are out there.



Thanks for that.
Excellent videos and I highly recommend them to all. FYI: I love the British perspective as well. My dad was in the military so we moved around a bit when I was little and I spent time in places with British kids.

Anyway, thanks again. I always like your posts.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: JadeStar

Have you ever experienced sleep paralysis, JadeStar?




posted on May, 3 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: Scdfa

The Zamora craft was different in several ways from the craft that landed in our backyard, but it is very similar.
The craft that landed was egg shaped but upright, taller than it was wide, sort of like an egg sits in a carton.
The top and the bottom of the craft were flatter, still curved, but flatter, so it wasn't a perfect ovoid shape. The bottom of the craft sat low to the ground, maybe only two feet off the grass, the bottom of the doorway just higher than that.
The landing legs were more complicated, they were kind of folded, in a similar way to the legs of a bird, so that each leg touched the ground in two places, in an arc. Like if you took the rails off a rocking chair and re-attach them upside down, so that each end touches the ground.


Can you draw a picture of it? Also what part of the US do you live in? I think I may know what you may have seen but it wasn't aliens...
edit on 3-5-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: JadeStar

Have you ever experienced sleep paralysis, JadeStar?





Yes actually I have.

It is the oddest feeling. Your mind is awake and your body is asleep. You have to like "fight your way" to wake your body up. You are fully conscious but can not move. It is what I imagine being dead would be like if you somehow retained consciousness. But then, I'm a bit of a goth so lol.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 12:49 PM
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a reply to: JadeStar



But then, I'm a bit of a goth so lol.


Ya don't say?



Thanks for your response.

Happy Sunday,




posted on May, 3 2015 @ 12:55 PM
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originally posted by: Scdfa


I started working with MUFON back in the year 2000, when most of these trolls were still just disappointing their parents.

Don't take them seriously, funbox, no one does.


And I was working with the Air Force and Northrop over a decade before you were supposedly contributing to the disappointing organization that is MUFON.

I don't take you seriously and I imagine I'm not alone.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: JadeStar



But then, I'm a bit of a goth so lol.


Ya don't say?



Thanks for your response.

Happy Sunday,





Thanks. Bauhaus huh? That's like classic goth isn't it? Very nice song though so thanks. I'm more into The Birthday Massacre and stuff like that.

edit on 3-5-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:07 PM
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Can you draw a picture of it? Also what part of the US do you live in? I think I may know what you may have seen but it wasn't aliens..
a reply to: JadeStar

Upstate New York.

And I must applaud your steadfast inability to accept the truth, but it was aliens, little girl.

Three of them. Two came into our house, and one alien stayed with the ship while the other two rounded us up.

They took us on board their ship, and took us to a base, where there were at least a hundred other abductees.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: Scdfa


I started working with MUFON back in the year 2000, when most of these trolls were still just disappointing their parents.

Don't take them seriously, funbox, no one does.


And I was working with the Air Force and Northrop over a decade before you were supposedly contributing to the disappointing organization that is MUFON.

I don't take you seriously and I imagine I'm not alone.


Fair enough, seeing as I find you rather contemptible, and I don't believe a word you say since you lied about me by editing my writing to change its meaning, and then you tried to pass it off as my quote.

I doubt your claim, the Air Force has higher standards than that.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:26 PM
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originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: Scdfa


I started working with MUFON back in the year 2000, when most of these trolls were still just disappointing their parents.

Don't take them seriously, funbox, no one does.


And I was working with the Air Force and Northrop over a decade before you were supposedly contributing to the disappointing organization that is MUFON.

I don't take you seriously and I imagine I'm not alone.


Fair enough, seeing as I find you rather contemptible, and I don't believe a word you say since you lied about me by editing my writing to change its meaning, and then you tried to pass it off as my quote.

I doubt your claim, the Air Force has higher standards than that.


You should believe anything I say without question since I claim to be both a serviceman and a government contractor insider. That's what you do normally.

And based on your claim MUFON's standards are right where I thought they were.



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: Scdfa



Can you draw a picture of it? Also what part of the US do you live in? I think I may know what you may have seen but it wasn't aliens..
a reply to: JadeStar

Upstate New York.

And I must applaud your steadfast inability to accept the truth, but it was aliens, little girl.

Three of them. Two came into our house, and one alien stayed with the ship while the other two rounded us up.

They took us on board their ship, and took us to a base, where there were at least a hundred other abductees.


How long by your estimate did your trip to the base take? Did you notice anything else inside the ship or the base? Details please. Even if they seem insignificant, please tell all that you can remember about the interiors.

Also did you talk with the other 100 people? What languages were they speaking? And what do you feel was the purpose of assembling such a large amount of people?
edit on 3-5-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Scdfa



Can you draw a picture of it? Also what part of the US do you live in? I think I may know what you may have seen but it wasn't aliens..
a reply to: JadeStar

Upstate New York.

And I must applaud your steadfast inability to accept the truth, but it was aliens, little girl.

Three of them. Two came into our house, and one alien stayed with the ship while the other two rounded us up.

They took us on board their ship, and took us to a base, where there were at least a hundred other abductees.


How long by your estimate did your trip to the base take? Did you notice anything else inside the ship or the base? Details please. Even if they seem insignificant, please tell all that you can remember about the interiors.

Also did you talk with the other 100 people? What languages were they speaking? And what do you feel was the purpose of assembling such a large amount of people?


Jade, for the very first time you're asking me questions. And these are interesting questions, too, and I will answer them tonight I hope, with as much detail as you like, where I can. Talk to you later!



posted on May, 3 2015 @ 06:29 PM
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a reply to: draknoir2


And I was working with the Air Force and Northrop over a decade before you were supposedly contributing to the disappointing organization that is MUFON.

Well I guess that tops selling trinkets at dead shows and polluting the atmosphere with patchouli oil. To put it In perspective, being a field investigator for MUFON could be a career highlight.




edit on 3-5-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2015 @ 02:31 AM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: draknoir2


And I was working with the Air Force and Northrop over a decade before you were supposedly contributing to the disappointing organization that is MUFON.

Well I guess that tops selling trinkets at dead shows and polluting the atmosphere with patchouli oil. To put it In perspective, being a field investigator for MUFON could be a career highlight.





Don't beat yourself up.



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