originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: cooperton
This is why Jesus had to die an unimaginably painful death, he was essentially the karmic sponge for all the crappiness of people's actions; he died
for the forgiveness of sins and absorbed all the bad karma that was present in the world
He died a painful death because he led an insurrection...you have to read between the lines. Peter was armed at Gethsemene, remember also that it took
a cohort of Romans to quell the riots. Hardly necessary if all they were doing is singing Kumbayas.
Jesus was equipped only with the sword of truth. He was far from a simple leader of a rebellion, even Pontius Pilot gives his opinion about Jesus in a
letter to Caesar:
"...Jesus was neither seditious nor rebellious
, so we extended to Him our protection. He was at liberty to act, to speak, to assemble and to
address the people. This unlimited freedom provoked the Jews -- not the poor but the rich and powerful."
(letter from Pontius Pilot to Tiberius Caesar, available at the congressional library or here:
Despite Pilot's opinion, The "rich and powerful" would have their way and Jesus would be executed according to Divine Plan, to atone for the sins of
As to Karma, meh its no different than the myth of eternal punishment in hell.
I think the "eternal fire" is equivalent to samsara in Hindu tradition, it is an endless realm of suffering and the purpose is to be liberated from
samsara/eternal fire by relinquishing ignorance and seeking truth. I agree with bb23108 when he said that karma should be thought of as reaping what
“No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit... A good man brings good things out of
the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart." (Luke 6:43-45)
Any Christian is obliged to believe that this karmic law is true because it is written explicitly in gospel multiple times. General seekers of the
truth can take it or leave it, but in my own experience I have realized this to be completely true.
Meanwhile the powerful keep draining your energy and you toil at 50/60 hours working weeks.
Sounds like you're eager to 'drop your nets' for some sort of spiritual exodus. I'm with you on that.
I dont buy your sophistry any more.
our life consists of a choice; death and taxes, or eternal life and liberty with The Eternal Being. When Moses asked God who he was, God simply
replied "I am that I am". 'I am' is the present tense of 'to be'. God is the Eternal Being, the Alpha and Omega, and our life is purposed for reunion
with this form of Being. Eternal life with the Eternal being is difficult for us to ascertain with all the limitations we put on ourselves. When Jesus
says all can attain Eternal Life with the Eternal Being, the Jews don't believe him, so he extrapolates on the matter:
"I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence
, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”
“Abraham is our father,” they answered.
“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who
has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the works of your own father.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my
language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s
desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language,
for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling
the truth, why don’t you believe me? Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”
“I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who
seeks it, and he is the judge. Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.
At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word
will never taste death. Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”
Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not
know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the
thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!
” (John 8:38-58)
Jesus' teachings are meant to help us unite with the Eternal "I Am". Missing the point of life (sinning) disallows us to unite with Being, and the
result is death. This is not sophistry, this is the teaching of God.
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23).
“Through the abandonment of desire, the deathless state is realized.”
(Buddhism: Samyatta Nikaya xlvii 37)
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death
To be or not to be, that is the question of life.
edit on 4-5-2015 by cooperton because: (no reason given)