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POLITICS: Bush Pardons 4: On Track To Issue The least Amount For A Modern President

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posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:27 PM
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President Bush pardoned four people today. This brings the total of people pardoned to just 31. His pardon pace may turn out to be the lowest among modern presidents. His father issued 77 in just one term and President Clinton issued 456. Only 2 presidents never used the privilege, James Garfield and William H. Harrison. The most prolific pardoner was Franklin D. Roosevelt's 3,687 spread out over 4 terms.

 



www.cnn.com
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush granted four pardons Tuesday, bringing to just 31 the total of pardons and sentence commutations he has issued during his first term, the Justice Department announced.

The number of clemency orders issued by Bush is far off the pace of most modern presidents and less than half the 77 granted by his father, President George H.W. Bush, during his single term from 1989 to 1993, according to statistics collected by the University of Pittsburgh law school.

President Clinton, by contrast, granted clemency for 456 people during his eight years in office, including 176 on his last day at the White House. One of those was the contentious pardon of fugitive financier Marc Rich, former husband of Democratic Party donor Denise Rich.




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Bush did not use the power as governor of Texas that much either. The issue can be a controversial one as evidenced by the shady dealing that allowed Denise Rich to buy her self and her husband a pardon for Christmas by the “anything is for sale” Clinton’s. In looking at the list, it is hard to establish a link between those pardoned and the president. Most likely they are people picked for publicity value in this go round rather than political. As a lame duck president without a vice president to protect, I wonder if more pardons ala Clinton’s last minute flurry will be in the works later on.




posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:38 PM
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Oddley enough he did not pardon what any of us would call a hardened crimal in this lastest bunch




Those granted pardons Tuesday were:

• Kristan Diane Bullock Akins, Raleigh, North Carolina, embezzlement by a bank employee. Sentenced in August 1990 to three years' probation, 100 hours of community service and a $1,000 fine.

• Ronald William Cauley, East Providence, Rhode Island, misapplication of bank funds by an employee. Sentenced in November 1980 to one year of probation.

• Stephen Davis Simmons, Austin, Texas, possession of counterfeit obligations. Sentenced in 1981 to five years' probation and a $2,000 fine.

• Roger Charles Weber, Northridge, California, theft from interstate shipment. Sentenced in February 1969 to two years probation and a $200 fine
[quote/]

Note not one of them are killers that has to say something.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:44 PM
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Well, you need to couple that with Bush's great record of converting Texas death row inmates into corpses, too. Including as one of his last duties the woman at whom he laughed over her plea for clemency, to the horror of lsiteners.

A gubernatorial record holder in executing people and a "presidential" record holder in executing Executive Orders trying to save his butt. What will he be saying about dead soldiers and civilians in Iraq out of earshot?


Note not one of them are killers that has to say something.


What does that say exactly?



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:49 PM
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Wow! MA, guess what, the people in Texas seemed to be okay with this.

And concerning your last question...it says he's using his pardon abilities to allow people who farkled up a bit, but otherwise have lived a redeeming life to have a clean slate.

Gawd, it just eats your gut out that your opinion means nothing for how we run our business here in the U.S., doesn't it?



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 08:59 PM
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Gawd, it just eats your gut out that your opinion means nothing for how we run our business here in the U.S., doesn't it?



Not at all. I think it eats your gut out that your own opinion means nothing for how business is run, based on your attitudes.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Well, you need to couple that with Bush's great record of converting Texas death row inmates into corpses, too.


Toto are we in Oz? cause there is a STRAWMAN argument here.


AT any rate, simply because Bush did not act to commute the sentances of those killers? They were given sentances by a jury of thier peers, to wit the citizens of Texas, and given no extenuating why would Bush commute thier sentance? If anything it shows he sticks to his ideals. unlike the "Pardon's for Sale" Clinton era.


[edit on 12/21/04 by FredT]



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar


Not at all. I think it eats your gut out that your own opinion means nothing for how business is run, based on your attitudes.


Well, maybe it's the great distance or the vast water - but I agree with the death penalty and I agree with the pardons....so I'm actually feeling like my opinion is in action right now.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
They were given sentances by a jury of thier peers, to wit the citizens of Texas, and given no extenuating why would Bush commute thier sentance? If anything it shows he sticks to his ideals.
[edit on 12/21/04 by FredT]



So, Bush's ideals are death and (as certain of his admin have euphemistically put it) "human destruction"?

Well, it also provides an indication of the incidence of capital crime in Texas. If that's a good thing to add to the man's record during his governor's term, then so be it. I have never looked into how long the inmates spent on death row - no doubt some have a long and arduous trek before they go to meet their maker.

The "president's" work as a governor who executed more prisoners than any other is a shining beacon for some people.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
So, Bush's ideals are death and (as certain of his admin have euphemistically put it) "human destruction"?


Hmm comming on the heels of the strawman above, Im a bit perplexed. Perhaps you can help me here:

Is you above statement A
Slippery Slope: In order to show that a proposition P is unacceptable, a sequence of increasingly unacceptable events is shown to follow from P. A slippery slope is an illegitimate use of the "if-then" operator.
or

Prejudicial Language:Loaded or emotive terms are used to attach value or moral goodness to believing the proposition.

www.intrepidsoftware.com...

Or have you Masked Avatar created a whole new fallacy that should be included in elementary logic classes? Perhaps "The Masked Combo Fallacy": a combination of many fallacies of logic lumped into one giant fallacy




The "president's" work as a governor who executed more prisoners than any other is a shining beacon for some people.


Bush did not execute anyone, he simply carried out the wishes of the voters of Texas who elected him. Really now, you make it sound as if he gave the lethal injection himself.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 10:33 PM
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Excused me but Bush record in texas is still a very bad one, I guess he got a change of hart for a chance after all, I guess god most has told him that it will get him points for heaven.

He is going to need all he can get.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 10:35 PM
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No, Fred T, I don't subscribe to any of those, nor to your current path:

paralysis by analysis


All evidence points to Bush being a failed man in a privileged position, acting with hubris, whose values towards human life have appeal only to people who themselves place a low value on human life.

ATS may well be short of logicians. But I'll work to my logic on this topic in spite of your decision to see it differently.

Bush is no friend to you or America.


[edit on 21-12-2004 by MaskedAvatar]



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 12:16 PM
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so you blame bush for courts sentencing people to death? uh how is it his fault? you are so anti-bush you blame him for what jurors decided in court on their own...what is that? wasnt clinton in office then, why not blame him too for not pardoning the same people bush didnt pardon hmm?

you people are funny, blaming one man for jury decisions, you prefer one man overriding sentences constantly?



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatarAll evidence points to Bush being a failed man in a privileged position, acting with hubris, whose values towards human life have appeal only to people who themselves place a low value on human life.


hubris? lol because he doesnt interfere with court sentences hes being arrogant? what kind of logic is that?



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 02:45 PM
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Hubris and stupidity are Bush's trademarks whether he is arranging deaths or playing golf.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 03:37 PM
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More evidence about how the Bush administration is in the pocket of big business. Who is usually given these Presidential pardons? Corporate criminals.

Who's Justice Department doesn't pursue and punish, but rewards corporate malfeasance? Bush.

He didn't give out many pardons because his corporate criminal friends are given a free pass and never arrested!

[edit on 22-12-2004 by curme]



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 05:12 PM
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The issue can be a controversial one as evidenced by the shady dealing that allowed Denise Rich to buy her self and her husband a pardon for Christmas by the “anything is for sale” Clinton’s.


Good God Fred, that's just dim. You are online enough to know Denise Rich was fully vetted, yet you hoist that up, all the while forgetting the absurd number of convicted felons pardoned by the Bush Crime Family.
Just take a look at what that crime family has pardoned in the way of Terrorists.
( today's Google hint: Cuban & Florida).



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 05:50 PM
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Wow. I think George Bush could save a small child from a fire in front of witnesses and these guys would still try to twist it in to something dibolical and sinister.

Get real. We're talking about pardoning crimminals here, right? How could less not be better? How????

Let the blind hatred induced spin resume...



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Wow. I think George Bush could save a small child from a fire in front of witnesses




Actually I don't think he could.

But he can trumpet such things as victory in Iraq when there is no victory to be had.

And he can laugh at the death row inmates that he signs off, if it amuses him at the time.

Informed judgment over blind dogma any day.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 06:55 PM
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Oh Masked one, you have made more than one reference to GWB merrily laughing as he signed execution orders. I for one would love to see the article or news bit that details this so that I can judge the information for myself. Funny that this was never brought up once in the presidential campaign.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 07:17 PM
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No, it's not funny.

Bush's drug-addled brain from years of coc aine use was not brought up much either. It's old news.

Nor were his near death by pretzel nor his mastery of Segways, nor his poor command of his mother tongue, nor what he did on 9/11 discussed that much. Presidential campaigns are the most useless forms of advertising spend imaginable, and they yield little of merit.

This is circular and uninteresting.

When I make statements without a link, I cite verifiable facts that have been long established at ATS. You're a staff member. Go search the information you need within the bounds of these forums, please.

Not here at your service. Good luck!




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