Ideal situation for children to grow up in??

originally posted by: American-philosopher
a reply to: tridentblue
again that's obvious. but lets put the same sex couple and opposite sex couple on the same playing field and say that they have no criminal background and income level is the same and all that. what situation is the best??

What's best is a situation where a child has a same sex person they can go to, and an opposite sex person. For instance a girl with two Dads needs access to someone to talk about physical woman issues when the time comes. Its convenient if that can come from a parent, but probably not necessary.

a reply to: American-philosopher

A simulator.

That fact that the question from the OP was even raised is a sign of the tremendous damage the sexual revolution has visited on our society.


Every person has one mother and one father. Period.


They have a right to a safe and loving childhood in a family with that mother and that father.


Everything else is a miserable failure on the part of the adults who created the child.

a reply to: corvuscorrax

Wow...This is why someone shouldn't answer for someone else....Relax dude! Tridentblue answered the question above your reply and didn't do it by trying to attack what I said...

I am not grasping at straws either, this exact same thing has come up many times in discussions right here on ATS about gay couples being "nicer" to children in ways of lower % of abuse, lower % of drinking issues, etc...Since I have heard this many times in the past, I was asking tridentblue the question because he knows someone in the adoption industry and I wanted to hear his view not yours....But I played along with you and I should have left your initial post unanswered because I didn't want to have to do what I did above to explain it to you...Then have you quietly bash my views, I have been around the forums long enough to know the dialect of your post above...

Tridentblue, thanks for the nice and easy reply...Appreciate it! It has to be tough to be in the adoption industry though! What happens if you approve a family for a child and then find out that child was abused/raped/something HORRIBLE?? It would be hard to live with yourself would it not? All it would take is 1 time and your approval process would immediately turn a lot harder for approval from your end...

a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

I gave you your answer and you acted like I didn't. You made claims based on assumptions.

If you don't like how I responded then don't respond to my post. I just dislike when people make assumptions on how people think.

And I'll answer for when and for who I damn well please.

The most ideal situation for any child is a stable influence in their like. Someone that loves them and will support them though anything. The gender or sexual orientation of said people makes no difference. A good relationship and good communication between parent and child will ensure any problems that arise can be dealt with. This talking to a girl or boy child about things they would normally find out from a parent of the same sex is a non issue. A little bit of reading and research will ensure the child has all the info they need to be prepared for anything.

a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

Apparently, bad stuff does happen, at least that's what I gathered from her. I think I also remember hearing something about foster parents who take kids in just for the checks they get, without spending as much as the kids as they are supposed to.

a reply to: American-philosopher

I saw this earlier today:
5 Reasons 'Traditional Marriage' Would Shock Your Ancestors

#3. Single-Parent And Blended Families Were Always Normal

All that divorce and dying meant that people found themselves in their 20s and 30s, single, and looking to bone someone new. While sex outside of marriage was always going on, most people wanted to get married again so that their dick supply was on tap, if you will. And since those first marriages had often produced children, this meant that blended families were totally common.

In fact, they may have been the norm. Some historians think that stepparents and stepsiblings were almost more common than original families in the late medieval period. Even third marriages weren't strange, and stepchildren were considered as much a person's kids as their own biological ones. This doesn't mean that all remarriages went swimmingly, of course. The "wicked stepmother" trope goes back to at least Ancient Rome.

But before those parents chose to remarry, or if they never did, children would find themselves being raised by a single parent. This is another supposedly "modern" development that is going to ruin the next generation. And in the gay marriage fight, this has taken on a new angle. Apparently, all kids need to be raised by both a mother and a father, or they will be forever #ed up. According to these arguments, a single parent, and certainly two same-sex parents, can never provide an appropriate home for their offspring like a mother and father.

The thing is, in the old days you would count yourself lucky if you managed to reach adulthood with both of your parents still alive and kicking. Even up to 1900, a quarter of children would lose a parent before they turned 15. And in the 1950s, those halcyon days of supposedly perfect families? Between divorce, death, and sex outside of marriage, 22 percent of kids were still being raised by a single parent. If being raised by one gender ruins children, our ancestors were screwed.

I am convinced that stability is the most important thing for a child! there's nothing worse for a child than not knowing whats waiting for them at home!

One loving parent can do a fantastic job. But I also believe it helps a child to have both male and female adults in their life.
I dont think the world is ready for same sex parents just yet, and this makes it difficult for most children in that situation.

I taught marriage and family, parenting, and child development in several major state universities and one sort of ivy league university.

The most optimal environment for a child to grow up in?

A loving home with at least 2 adults who are committed to the child and love the child deeply.

Why is that best?
Every study done on families has shown that children raised during all their childhood years by at least 2 adults who are committed to the child turn out best on every measure: (BTW, that includes a grandparents as one of the 2 adults, the gender of the adults doesn't seem to matter as long as the two adults live with the child until he/she leaves home)
They are less likely to do drugs, to engage in criminal behavior, to engage in early sexual activity, and so on and on, every single measure.

The most optimal parenting style is:
parents who are slightly strict,

but do not spank

who listen to the child and allow the child to tell the whole story before becoming upset or acting

who help the child identify and manage their emotions

who respect their child (by not speaking to them in ways they would not accept from them)

by disciplining with thought,
so as to teach the child rather than punish
for example: the child makes a mess, the child cleans it up
the child leaves a bike out and it is stolen, the parent does not replace it
the child forgets to give their parent a permission slip, the parent does not run to the school to sign it
the child is disciplined at school, the parent backs up the school

by reminding the child on the way to the store, a friends house, anywhere what the expected behavior is, and not assuming the child knows the correct behavior (this should be done from age 2-13)

understands the child's limitations for their age and doesn't expect too much,
for example a 1 year old brain is not fully capable of remembering something told them "a million times"
and so for the one year old the parent prevents "bad" behavior through childproofing, redirection, and
making sure the child is not "out" when tired or hungry.
A small child having a temper tantrum in a store at 12:30ish is not misbehaving, the parent is the one misbehaving, by not making sure the child gets their nap and lunch when hungry


Research is clear that this type of parenting, along with 2 adults who are committed to the child and live with the child up until they leave home will statistically turn out the very best. They also have a greater than 70% chance of never getting into "real" trouble as teenagers, and of being easy and fun teens to have around the house.

It is pure statistics, no judgement or judgementalism

Single parents can and do raise good kids, but the deck is stacked against them statistically speaking.
For one thing, one parent is easily overwhelmed and exhausted without another adult to back them up, or give them a chance to get relief from parenting, or have someone else who will stop a frustrated parent from acting on their frustration and/or rage and calm them down.

originally posted by: American-philosopher
alright What does everybody say is the BEST not only situation/scenario for a child to grow up in??

A loving, supportive home.
Period.
There is no magic bullet combination of traditional or nontraditional parenting teams, because there are really crappy straight married parents just as there are really crappy gay unmarried parents out there. Without a loving and supportive environment, the rest don't mean a damn.

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
a reply to: American-philosopher

The best situation is to have a mother and a father...A child should grow up in a normal household IMO....Please don't argue and tell me father and father or mother and mother is a normal situation either because it isn't...Kids will be asked by friends at school why they have 2 daddys or 2 mommies and it will make a child not only feel uncomfortable but questioning his childhood for being completely different! This can cause a child much stress and anxiety for not feeling like they fit in...

School and kids have a hard enough time growing up without having difficult situations about their parents...

But this again, you said "ideal", not saying that same sex couples can't have a child in an "ideal" circumstance, but you said ideal and that is my opinion on the topic....Thanks!

I am actually ecstatic my father, for the most part, was not in my life. As for other children asking 'why do you have 2 mommies or 2 daddies?' By then their parents will have given them a good answer or they will have thought of their own. Kids ask odd questions, like 'why are your eyes slanted?' , 'Why do you live with your grandmother?' , 'Do you think boogers taste good?'

As long as the parent or parents have the qualities mentioned by American-philosopher, they will be fine. An extended , involved family also helps.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I am sorry I think I know what your trying to say but I mean you can;t ask the child what kind of parents would you like do you want single mom do you want two fathers do you want a mother and a father. Thast not really the question I was trying to ask here. Lets go without looking at personality traits and compassionate feelings here lets go with statisical facts what situation is better??

In a loving family, with a parent that stays at home.

a reply to: American-philosopher

The best situation is to be with the biological mother and father, whoa re loving and caring and concerned for their child. There are studies around (no, I don't have links) that show this is the case. Divorce hurts, single parenting hurts, and non-traditional situations hurt. I am saying that as someone who was a single mom for some years.

I assume we are talking about optimal situation

-with his biological parents
-parents are well-adjusted and present
-there is a clear mother figure and a father figure. Lack of either will cause confusion sooner or later.
-the child is loved unconditionally
-clear boundaries are set
-parents do activities with the child,"quality time", but the child is also given time alone. I believe this is crucial and underrated at present. Clear sense of self is developed in solitude, and the child should become comfortable early on with having only his own thoughts to accompany him.
-the kid is pushed to learn things(piano, swimming etc.) but not too much. and encouraged in his own pursuits, but not too much. praise given only when it's deserved.
-the parents are open-minded about the child, with no preconceptions of what he must become("our son will become a doctor!"). every kid has deep down his temperament that the parents cannot change, no matter how much we try. there are twin studies that pretty clearly indicate that parents have far less "power" over shaping their child than usually thought. the nature of the child must therefore be respected and not forced onto the mold parents have made for him before he was born.

a reply to: Megatronus

There are some things that cannot be duplicated from a book or research. there are some things and actual man needs to teach a boy. I mean you can't go to a book and say well this is how you supposed to shave. that's what the book says. And I think boys need a male influence in their life that in some was cannot be duplicated. their are life experiences and in those moments there are teaching moments, that again can't be duplicated from a book.

originally posted by: Gully
a reply to: American-philosopher

Mom & Dad. One of which stays at home.

Involved Grandparents.

Siblings/cousins/lots of friends to interact with.

Child has opportunity to participate in activities outside of school (library programs, scouting, etc.)

Quality of education is important and I would encourage people to move if that's what it takes to get their child in a good school.

Just my thoughts off the top of my head.

That's the ideal, I agree. Not saying that other situations are wrong--people have to make the best of what they have.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: American-philosopher

The best situation is to be with the biological mother and father, whoa re loving and caring and concerned for their child. There are studies around (no, I don't have links) that show this is the case. Divorce hurts, single parenting hurts, and non-traditional situations hurt. I am saying that as someone who was a single mom for some years.

Being with ones biological parents may be the "textbook ideal," but real life rarely works out that way.

I grew up in a strong christian household, daughter of a pastor and a stay at home mom. To the outside world, my dad seemed like a model citizen. Everyone loved him, except, of course, for his own family. He was always fun when your friends were around, but once they went home he would change. His home was his castle, his wife was unequivocally subservient, (and subject to beatings at his discretion) and "spare the rod, spoil the child" had a whole new meaning behind the doors of our home. Once when I was in high school he accused me of "immoral behavior," a.k.a. accused of having sex with my boyfriend. (he was delusional, but nobody would ever be able to convince him otherwise, because "he had God on his side to tell him the truth." my model father purposely knocked me down a flight of stairs, and then he proceeded to kick me in my stomach to make sure that I wouldn't embarrass the family by being pregnant. I coughed up blood for days, and wore a sweater even in hot weather to hide the bruises and scars. My brothers tell similar tales of fear and psychosis, but the community always stood behind dad and his "perfect family."

As I look back to those days almost 50 years ago, I still can't bring myself to believe that having him in our life was a positive thing. We had two parents in our home, but mom lived a terrified existence, and the kids literally lived in constant fear. Because of our upbringing and each of us leaving home/moving to remote parts of the country to find inner peace, my brothers and I never had a chance to bond as a family should have. Communication with my mom was horrible, because she couldn't speak freely on the phone. I went more than 40 years without talking to my dad, and my brothers communicated with him about as much too. To this day, my brothers and I refuse to participate in any religion, because we understand that religion was used to facilitate, justify and condone all the wrongs against us. My dad died alone, and the only emotions his family felt was relief.

I grew up in the most dysfunctional family I know of, despite having the "ideal" opposite sex parents, a stay at home mom and 24/7 exposure to a "religious environment." I'd gladly have traded it for a single parent environment, same sex parents, or any other loving combination thereof. It's not about the sex of your parents. It's about LOVE.

a reply to: ArdentAngel

Right I get what your saying but I mean ofcourse good parents are going to be better then parents that don't offer any love or something like that. That's not what I am asking. If the same sex parents vs the opposites sex parents have the same amount of time and and love and all those good things what would you say is the ideal situation??

I know its not the Politically correct thing to make a choice but I really want to hold peoples feet to the fire here and make a choice.