Hate towards BS Christians

originally posted by: grandmakdw

Why can you be judgmental, just because you aren't a Christian
that frees you to be as judgmental as you wish towards others?

*hits self in the head*

I really blew it becoming a Christian.

Dangit!

a reply to: grandmakdw

I have answered your question in other posts in this thread. You know, the 90% of posts in the thread you've ignored.

Also this is a RANT thread. Rants are not speeches, they aren't thesis, they aren't legal documents, they aren't heart to hearts, rants are RANTS. They're meant for venting against things that piss you off. Things that have irritated you and got you into a bit of fury that you need to get off your chest and rail against for a bit.

In a RANT harsher and more extreme language is expected, it's part of ranting and letting it all out. Many things in a rant are hyperbole.

It is not my fault you do not know what the purpose of a rant and rant forum is. In a rant post, the first post is expected to be one of things like anger, frustration, or pain. After the Poster's OP they've had their chance to get their angers frustrations and pains out. At that point clarification and real discussion can occur.

There's a good reason this was in the rant forum. Now can you please stop your rant portion of this thread so reasonable discussion can occur.

Oh and to answer your question, the reason why I can question the legitimacy of someone who acts in a non christian manner, is the same reason I, as a non pacifist, can question someone who claims to be a pacifist who I just saw beat up an old lady. It's inconsistent behavior to that which is claimed. Such behavior can and should be questioned. Not just by non-christians, but fellow christians alike. Especially when said christian tries to use said beliefs to discriminate against others.

The same is true for anyone of any denomination, religion or philosophy. Religious freedom should not mean the ability to claim whatever you want uncontested and get away with it. Is not what it's meant for.

a reply to: beezzer


You just don't get it Beez.

The most enlightened have every right to be the most intolerant, because they are always right, and they know how everyone else should think, and act.

We are just a bunch of old fogies, who think that people should be allowed the freedom to think as they wish. How backward of us, how unenlightened.

It is so old fashioned to believe that a person in the 21st century should be allowed to have any opinion that is different from the prescribed "politically correct" opinion, that the enlightened think,( oh no ), KNOW, that everyone else must have.
That's the enlightened way. Totalitarianism rules! Especially in thought, and speech, and now action control! Woo hoo!

a reply to: grandmakdw

Well, our biggest problem is that we don't know everything.

And others, well, they know everything and are always right.

*goes back to his coloring books and play-doh*

a reply to: grandmakdw

It's not my business how you think or act until you try to legislate it or use it to treat me as a second class citizen in the secular world.

At home, at your church, on your free time, I don't care what you do as long as it harms no one. Once you're running a public business, that changes, however....

You know what, I really hate repeating myself... maybe I should learn how to create bookmarks to my old posts, I'm done, is almost time for work anyway. I'm not going to re-argue everything I already have with you, simply because you can't be bothered to read past the original post and posts in response to you and you alone.

You win, I'm done for now. I'm willing to discuss with people, but I'm not willing to repeat everything in this thread for every individual person, individually. I'm sorry but is way too frustrating. And now I'm running on an empty tank... damn this stupid thread shouldn't have started it, now work is going to kill me...

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: grandmakdw

I have answered your question in other posts in this thread. You know, the 90% of posts in the thread you've ignored.

Also this is a RANT thread. Rants are not speeches, they aren't thesis, they aren't legal documents, they aren't heart to hearts, rants are RANTS. They're meant for venting against things that piss you off. Things that have irritated you and got you into a bit of fury that you need to get off your chest and rail against for a bit.

In a RANT harsher and more extreme language is expected, it's part of ranting and letting it all out. Many things in a rant are hyperbole.

It is not my fault you do not know what the purpose of a rant and rant forum is. In a rant post, the first post is expected to be one of things like anger, frustration, or pain. After the Poster's OP they've had their chance to get their angers frustrations and pains out. At that point clarification and real discussion can occur.

There's a good reason this was in the rant forum. Now can you please stop your rant portion of this thread so reasonable discussion can occur.

Oh and to answer your question, the reason why I can question the legitimacy of someone who acts in a non christian manner, is the same reason I, as a non pacifist, can question someone who claims to be a pacifist who I just saw beat up an old lady. It's inconsistent behavior to that which is claimed. Such behavior can and should be questioned. Not just by non-christians, but fellow christians alike. Especially when said christian tries to use said beliefs to discriminate against others.

The same is true for anyone of any denomination, religion or philosophy. Religious freedom should not mean the ability to claim whatever you want uncontested and get away with it. Is not what it's meant for.

You are right, this is a RANT thread!
Therefore, everyone has the right to rant throughout the entire thread, that is the purpose of a rant thread.

So who decides what is consistent behavior? You?

That is what you are saying
you have the right to sit in judgement of
anyone you choose,
whom you believe is being inconsistent
in their beliefs and thoughts.

You certainly have the right to question
people, but you have gone far far beyond
questioning.
You have been making extreme judgements
based on YOUR private definition of
what YOU think a Christian SHOULD BE
according to you,
and what YOU think a Christian SHOULD THINK
according to you.

You are being self righteous, holier than thou, and extremely judgmental,
but that's ok, after all you aren't a Christian
so it's not inconsistent with your non-religion,
to be condescending and bigoted toward Christians,
whom you don't feel meet your standards
and what you think a Christian should be 100% of the time.

After all you expect all Christians to actually BE Jesus, and
you know that not one of them can be, because they are
just ordinary everyday people with foibles and who make
mistakes.

But Christians in your world view are not allowed
foibles and mistakes, and must be Jesus all the time, and so
can never ever possibly be a Christian you could be fond of.

As a non-Christian I notice you pull a handful of scriptures
out and say "This is what makes a good Christian"
If you don't live up to this you are worthless, #ty, crappy,
smelly bull#ting, bald faced liars.


As a Christian, I can tell you that there is more to it than
your handful of scriptures.

There is the part about all people, even and especially
Christians being sinners.

Yes Christians are ALL sinners, that is what the Bible says
that is what Jesus says.

We are all people like prostitutes and even murders, who
have made and will continue to make mistakes in our lives.

We are no better than anyone else, the only difference is
that when we make mistakes, we take them to Jesus
and ask for forgiveness, and try (never succeed) but try
to not make mistakes again.

God will forgive our mistakes
and will bring us into the fold of His family. Not because
we are good, because NONE OF US ARE GOOD,
not one single Christian is good enough to belong in God's family.
We are accepted because we believe Jesus took the
punishment we deserved for being such awful screw ups,
and because he did and because we thank him for that
sacrifice, we are accepted into the family of God.
That is what the New Testament, the Christian part of the
Bible says when read as a whole.

The New Testament, the Christian Bible, makes certain
all Christians know
that they will never be perfect and can never be perfect.

I think the OP only has problems with Christians pushing political agendas motivated by their faith. Agendas like keeping gay marriage illegal. Agendas like teaching creationism or intelligent design in schools (ok that one is one of mine). It's kind of funny how you can't talk about Christians on ATS without a disclaimer stating you're not broad-brushing all Christians. It's also funny how worked up some people get. I am certain the OP is well aware that there are plenty of live and let live Christians.

The OP makes a point though, that may have gone over some heads. There most definitely are Christians who are bigoted. Their bigotry directly stems from the way they interpret the scriptures. I don't think anyone is a stranger to the fact that Christian's interpretations of their holy book varies. Sometimes widely. Those that believe homosexuality is a sin, and make efforts to curb the rights of the LGBT community don't see it is bigotry. They see it as working to uphold God's laws. And certainly plenty of those people don't necessarily act bigoted (they aren't forming lynch mobs, for example). It's a "hate the sin not the sinner thing".. It doesn't change the fact they are bigots.

But you know, maybe bigot is the wrong term to use. Perhaps prejudiced works better? It would really come down to the person and their actions. Because as we all agree, not all Christians are the same.

a reply to: beezzer

Lol, as an agnostic, my "religion" is the ability to say "I don't know" is an acceptable answer to the greater mysteries of the universe. Not sure how someone who claim's, as someone of religion, to know how the universe ultimately came into being, can pretend like they're humble in their lack of knowledge.

Sorry going to have to be a bit offensive here, but, personally, I can thing of nothing more arrogant than a person who claims to KNOW for a fact the greatest mystery of the universe, and KNOW for a fact that everyone else is wrong.

Anyone who makes such a claim cannot reasonable be humble towards others when it comes to lack of knowledge. You're claiming to have the one and only true knowledge of the greatest mystery of all time. To know the true fabric of the universe and it's conception.

Call me a militaristic agnostic, but I believe that not only do I not know, but you don't either. There's nothing about any religion that negates reasonable doubt.

I'm arrogant in my own ways, but there's one thing I know, I don't claim to know for a fact the ultimate truth of anything. In that single aspect I am by default more humble than anyone who claims to actually know the secrets of the universe.

I'm not humble in a lot of things, and I will never claim to be the most humble person alive. But when it comes to thinking I know the truth of the universe or anything for a fact I know I'm not arrogant.

Is it really necessary I put IMHO next to every single thought I say?

Would love to see someone religious do that... though in Christianity, isn't that blasphemous?

You're not even allowed to recognize your religious belief as an opinion...

a reply to: Puppylove

wow. You really are bigoted and biased.

Okay.

Rock on.

I'm just going to avoid you from now on.

Eeek.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Actually I said everyone has that right and should use it, that includes you, Beezer, ect. Not just me. Sorry you're not getting me claiming any right to be sole judge, jury and executioner. Sorry, no bisquit for you.

Especially when someone does so to try and skirt the law.

Once again for the billionth time, this has nothing to do with Christians or "Christian's" either on a personal level, nor with any mistakes a Christian might make in their personal life, nor any forgiveness they might ask for with Jesus.

It has to do with them trying to use Christianity to allow them to treat religious freedom as a shield to act in a non christian manner to infringe upon the rights of others. Anything outside of that is ultimately irrelevant to my point.

As long as a Christian is leaving me and others out of it on a secular level, it's not my business. The second you include others in your hang ups and try to force your ways on others through legislation, you bet your ass it becomes my business.

Keep it personal, and no one will give two craps about you are what relationship with Jesus you claim to have or not have.

a reply to: beezzer

Everyone's biased, you going to pretend you're not?

As for bigoted, no I'm not, I never said I myself am not arrogant and egotistical in other respects. I just think it's a bit silly for someone who claims to know the ultimate truth to play the, we're humble in our lack of knowledge card.

I don't think I'm any better than you, we're both just people... well puppies and bunnies, stumbling around in this crazy universe. I just have an issue with people that claim a monopoly on the ultimate truth. Past that issue, it's what the person does after making that claim that matters.

Everyone has something they just plain think is ridiculous. I'm sure you have several.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: grandmakdw

Actually I said everyone has that right and should use it, that includes you, Beezer, ect. Not just me. Sorry you're not getting me claiming any right to be sole judge, jury and executioner. Sorry, no bisquit for you.

Especially when someone does so to try and skirt the law.

Once again for the billionth time, this has nothing to do with Christians or "Christian's" either on a personal level, nor with any mistakes a Christian might make in their personal life, nor any forgiveness they might ask for with Jesus.

It has to do with them trying to use Christianity to allow them to treat religious freedom as a shield to act in a non christian manner to infringe upon the rights of others. Anything outside of that is ultimately irrelevant to my point.

As long as a Christian is leaving me and others out of it on a secular level, it's not my business. The second you include others in your hang ups and try to force your ways on others through legislation, you bet your ass it becomes my business.

Keep it personal, and no one will give two craps about you are what relationship with Jesus you claim to have or not have.

But it is ok for secularists to push legislation they believe in
to force their views on others?

It is ok for liberals to push legislation they think, in their opinion,
in their own minds, that the legislation is right and just and fair BUT
Christians should not have the same right to put forth legislation
they think is right and just and fair?

It is ok for liberals/progressives to push legislation that religious people disagree with,
but it is not ok for religious people to push legislation that secularists disagree with?

Pushing legislation doesn't mean it will be passed.
It simply means, it is put forth for consideration and for a vote.

What you are advocating is taking away the rights of Christians
to submit legislation for consideration, because you don't like what they submit.

Well there is plenty of legislation that Christians don't like
but they are not saying that secularists or liberals
should not have the right to submit the legislation they want passed.

So it seems you want a sort of "Jim Crow" society where
only liberals may participate in the legislative process in the US,
and Christians should not participate in the legislative process?

Sounds like discrimination and prejudice to me.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: beezzer

Everyone's biased, you going to pretend you're not?

Of course not, but I tend to avoid people who mock religion and racists.

Since I'm not white and I go to church, that about sums it up.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Separation of church and state. Any legislation can be presented as long as the separation of church and state is maintained.

The difference between secular laws and religious laws, is that, they need to be passed by their merit, and not by belief alone.

There are many beliefs that Christians have that, can be argued, free from Christian doctrine. But because the bible says so is not allowed due to the separation of church and state. And unconstitional laws are unconstitution regardless of who tries to pass them.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: grandmakdw

Separation of church and state. Any legislation can be presented as long as the separation of church and state is maintained.

The difference between secular laws and religious laws, is that, they need to be passed by their merit, and not by belief alone.

There are many beliefs that Christians have that, can be argued, free from Christian doctrine. But because the bible says so is not allowed due to the separation of church and state. And unconstitional laws are unconstitution regardless of who tries to pass them.

So you are saying the constitution says Christians should not by law be allowed to put forth any legislation that even remotely is related to their faith?

That is what is sounds like, "Jim Crow" for Christians.

a reply to: beezzer

Mock? I claimed I found a certain behavior arrogant, that's mocking?

Like you're innocent of mocking non christians or others, please, be fair. You've done quite a bit of mocking in the time I've seen you post, don't see me writing you off. We've both agreed and disagreed on stuff, and I've actually admitted when you've had fair points before. I'm clearly a monster.

originally posted by: Puppylove
I'm clearly a monster.

It's the first step in enlightenment.
Admitting you are not perfect and don't know everything.

If you know my posts, you'll also notice I self deprecate quite often.

Humility is something I'm still working on.

I might suggest something similar.

a reply to: grandmakdw

It's separation of church and state. It's meant to protect Christians in the same way from other religions as well. You know, like Sharia law? Separation of church and state is meant to protect all of us from being forced to follow the mandates of any individual religion and prevent a theocracy.

It's actually a law to PROTECT your religion, so no one can take it from you. On the same token, it prevents you from enforcing your religion on others. It's sounds bad to you now, but with the growing muslim population you should be glad such protections are there.

Laws have to prove to be secular in nature, because it has no religious bias and gives no religion control over all the citizens of the US.

Once again. nothing is stopping you from legislating laws, so long as you keep the bible as a reason out of it. If you can't argue for the reason for a law with logic, rational, and reason, while avoiding "because the bible says so" then you have a problem.

a reply to: beezzer

If you know my posts, you'll have noticed I've done the same, quite often. I also give people the benefit of the doubt. I find it odd how quick people are to write others off.

Personally I actually like you. Sometimes you give good rational arguments. It can be refreshing...

Of course sometimes I think you purposely choose to misrepresent what someone has said. Not sure if it's not understanding it, or trying to bait them, hard to tell... I like to think it's misunderstanding, but I run into that a lot, and it frustrates me when people do it, so is becoming harder to give the benefit of the doubt on that one.

a reply to: Puppylove

No.

Sometimes I can just be a real asshole.

I like tweaking people, sometimes. . . sometimes it even causes everyone to learn just a little bit.