Bali nine duo executed by firing squad

originally posted by: Argyll
a reply to: Kryties

Trust me mate, this isn't being taken lightly down here by people who matter.

Well according to the article you posted a few posts above, the Australian Police Federation knew what they were doing and where they were going.

Maybe Australia needs to sort it's own backyard out first?

That's exactly what many people here have suggested, the news and many high profile people are calling for an investigation into the AFP's actions. Hopefully that happens.

But the corruption of the Indonesian Government in this issue as well as the ghastly way they treated the condemned and their families in the last month, is something that cannot be tolerated by us. If most of the people in this thread had actually been following the news on this then I would wager their reactions would be completely different, more along the lines of ours. The judicial process was corrupt - the judges apparently asked for $130,000 each to spare their lives then renigged when the Indonesian attorney General told them to give Death, the President broke their own law by not individually looking at the clemency petitions and the police and judicial system didn't investigate, the Bali duo had ongoing appeals processes STILL in the courts yet were executed.......the list goes on and on.

This execution was unjust, unlawful by international standards, corrupted and purely for the political gain of the current ruling party. That's aside from the fact that the death penalty is wrong, doesn't work to deter crime, and is a throwback to the dark ages.

P.S. I did go to bed and Oh My I found my iPad......

I'm really really off now.

Let me say I do not condone the death penalty for a drug dealer or user. I think it is extreme. However doing these crimes where there are signs everywhere stating what will happen if caught....come on... Use some common sense.

We do have the right to protest about other countries laws, especially when we do business with them, we let our citizens visit them and we share this planet together.

The death penalty, It's barbaric, it's not progressive, it's Stone Age thinking and we have a right to say this to Bali. They have also punished all these guys families, in prison they could still talk to them, now they have been punished too.

Shame on all countries that practice it.

Regardless of whether these were king pins or mules, if there were no heroin, junkies would kill themselves sniffing glue or aerosol abuse, Indonesia has not solved or improved it's problem with heroin, it's a social problem, not the dealers causing it. Perhaps they should execute themselves for every failed Indonesian junkie who dies because of failed social policy and poverty and all other social problems.

Nothing good has come of killing these prisoners.

originally posted by: LoverBoy
Let me say I do not condone the death penalty for a drug dealer or user. I think it is extreme. However doing these crimes where there are signs everywhere stating what will happen if caught....come on... Use some common sense.

So we kill people for a lack of common sense? It doesn't matter if there are a 100 signs, they shouldn't have broken the law, but taking someone's life is as you put it extreme, and in some peoples opinion here, mine included it's too extreme.

However, we are all allowed to have our opinions and that's why we post here!

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Kryties

If you go to another country respect there laws simple.

Bingo, we will not travel to the States for that very reason. If they find any reason to detain you at all there are zero phone calls allowed and that is that.
Behave yourselves out there folks, if you don't the results are dramatic.

Regards, Iwinder

a reply to: Forensick
I don't know, do you? I was pretty clear that killing these individuals was extreme. However if they used a little common sense and decided not to smuggle drugs when signs in their face are telling them they will die...then they wouldn't have died...It's rather simple.

a reply to: Forensick

And if you want to try and twist my words around, they weren't killed for failing to use common sense. That was not the crime.

a reply to: Forensick

Regardless of whether these were king pins or mules, if there were no heroin, junkies would kill themselves sniffing glue or aerosol abuse, Indonesia has not solved or improved it's problem with heroin, it's a social problem, not the dealers causing it.

Look at what you just posted.

You have just condoned drug trafficking, in your world we'd just let them all get on with it!.....fact of the matter is, there is heroin, but certain countries have certain laws, now none of these countries are springing these laws up after the crime has been committed, they aren't saying "shove some brown up your back passage and if you get caught we'll all have a laugh and let you on your way"

What they are saying is "smuggle drugs into/out of our country and you will face the death penalty....we will kill you"! and they aren't hiding that fact, they put signs up all around the airports stating that is what will happen!

If you were aware of all these facts, as these people were.....why in gods name would you try to traffic drugs in that country?

This may seem absurd but there should be a global policy for all Nations that a foreign citizen should never be executed. Make them do there time and if there Host Nation wants to support execution then return them to there home Nation and let it be done there. I am against the death penalty completely though. Just something more reasonable should be applied when people go to a host Nation and get convicted of crimes. The death penalty in the host Nation should never be on the table ever. Leave that choice to the Nation of origin to decide.

a reply to: Kapusta

Sounds like common sense but get this..it wont change a godamn thing and believe me no junkies went without. You only have 10 fingers to plug the dyke but there are a million holes and all bigger than your finger. Crazy thing to smuggle where there is a death penalty.
That is all.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: crazyewok

That is true-but when a country is adamant of upholding their laws they are quick to forget other nations laws.

Life sentences I can agree with-but death by firing squad? That obliterates rehabilitation. When is 'you screw up, you die' an acceptable form of punishment?

Its not in my opinion.

But I dont live in Bali.

Not my country.

What you want me to do ask the UK to invade them? Bomb them? Blockade them?

Its not in my opinion????

We know you don't live in Bali, your Location shows you live in UK

I didn't see any posts or news articles requesting the UK to assist with anything, they have enough of THEIR own problems.

.....and you got 4 stars for this weird post LOL

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Kryties

A tweet really?

4 stars for this post LOL. A perfect example of the buddy system here on ATS - you star me and I'll star you mentality with total disregard for the fact majority of people come to ATS to read intelligent posts and opinions. There are differing opinions on this thread and though I don't agree with all, I expect well thought out or researched posts be made. Some one line posts such as "A tweet really?" appears to be a bit of bullying or just trying to boost your stats.

Our politicians don't make a habit of calling press conferences at 5.00am in the morning ergo the tweet from Steven Ciobo, the parliamentary secretary to Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop. I was actually surprised our Prime Minister and FAM held a press conference before 9.00am this morning, which is usually the norm.

They are not the first Oz citizens to be executed in Asian countries for drug trafficking and somehow I think they won't be the last because the lure of easy money is a powerful driver. Yes they were remorseful and I would be also in the same position when faced with capital punishment but with the only possible outcomes being execution or life in an Indonesian prison - tough decision as to which would be better.

It's the law there and that's the penalty for the crime
Cold? - perhaps but they knew the consequences in advance

a reply to: Kryties

What you fail to understand OP is that people know that if you get caught smuggling drugs into most Asian countries you will get the death penalty.

And good. Dont go to another country and break their laws. They deserved it and it too bad.

I recall over a decade ago a couple of oil executives and their families were leaving Malaysia to head back to the USA after a working there for sometime. The two sons of the oil executives, one 15 and the other 16, were caught smuggling a kilo of heroin. They were both executed by hanging. Seems that the Bali 9 were in the same predicament.

No political message. It was just done as example of what happens to drug smugglers in Malaysia. The Malaysian government wouldn't accept any amount of money to buy the two teenager's freedom and nothing the families could do.

originally posted by: Argyll
a reply to: Forensick

Regardless of whether these were king pins or mules, if there were no heroin, junkies would kill themselves sniffing glue or aerosol abuse, Indonesia has not solved or improved it's problem with heroin, it's a social problem, not the dealers causing it.

Look at what you just posted.



You have just condoned drug trafficking, in your world we'd just let them all get on with it!.....fact of the matter is, there is heroin, but certain countries have certain laws, now none of these countries are springing these laws up after the crime has been committed, they aren't saying "shove some brown up your back passage and if you get caught we'll all have a laugh and let you on your way"



What they are saying is "smuggle drugs into/out of our country and you will face the death penalty....we will kill you"! and they aren't hiding that fact, they put signs up all around the airports stating that is what will happen!



If you were aware of all these facts, as these people were.....why in gods name would you try to traffic drugs in that country?

Well I am sick of the price of Heroin going up, it used to be a nice affordable habit.

I still do not condone the death penalty though and I wont be going to Bali on holiday, its 2015 and we are still putting down humans thinking it is part of a solution to a better place? Its barbaric and any person sentencing another person to death or those involved in that process are sick individuals - killing with the apparent moral high ground of a law that says its alright for me to do this.

Well I wouldnt do it and I dont support it.

originally posted by: LoverBoy
a reply to: Forensick



And if you want to try and twist my words around, they weren't killed for failing to use common sense. That was not the crime.

Yeah I know you didnt mean that, didnt mean to make it look like that, sorry.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: PeachesNCream

Capital punishment is barbaric? How about all the people that have to live with the trauma of all the dumb pricks that choose to destroy lives. You look at these idiots as victims, there not. How many kids went hungry because there mom and dad was hooked to their crap, how many people were mugged so the addicts could get their fix, how many women were forced into prostitution to feed there addiction, how many children kidnapped and pushed into the slave trade. Screw these pricks, they got what they deserved and only wish the USA would put in an express lane to eliminate more of these pricks. They are not a part of society. They are the slime that destroys it.

Cheers,

Camain.

Apparently remorse and proven rehabilitation mean absolutly nothing to you?

Apparently you have never done anything in your life that you regret and wish you could take back - just as Chan and Sukumaran were?

I was expecting some barbaric and backward thinking in this thread, congratulations on being the first.

You will find that ignorance everywhere Kyrties. I was attacked by a whole bunch of idiots on facebook for stating exactly what you have here, that it's barbaric, they were used as political tools for Indo's own grinning presidents popularity, and not once has anything they've done in the past 10 years that was for good, has been taken into account.

to drag it out as they did, was nothing short of torture.

And these idiots who bang on about the scourge of drugs, are probably going out the back for a ciggy and a beer in between their s'n-word'ing posts.

These two men were reformed. Had helped others, been a reason to NOT execute people, showing that someone can turn their life around.

Now? Who cares. Why rehabilitate ? Just stay a punk ass criminal, because obviously society doesn't care if you reform or not. Makes me sick, really.. We live in a corrupt barbaric world. The illusion is simply how pretty the pictures are..

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Kryties

If you go to another country respect there laws simple.

*Their

And what a load. They let 36 convicted terrorists out on clemency. The Bali bombing culprits.

They were only responsible for blowing up 92 bloody Australians.

Respect *their laws?



Sure thing pal...

When the Bali Nine were originally arrested 10 years ago I like many other Australians were outraged and hoped for a hasty trial and hefty prison sentences, the maximum penalty being death by firing squad. The then PM John Howard said the Australian government would oppose any death sentences imposed.

Over the years I have kept up to date with how Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran were spending their time in a Bali prison. Surprisingly, during an appeal hearing, the Governor of Kerobokan Prison described Sukumaran and Chan as model prisoners who have a positive influence on other prisoners.

Sukumaran taught English, computer, graphic design and philosophy classes to prisoners and in Feb 2015 Curtin University conferred Sukumaran with an Associate Degree in Fine Arts. He also started 2 businesses which sell artwork and clothing.
After years of self-reflection Andrew Chan took theology courses and became a Christian pastor and ran services in prison.
They certainly were rehabilitated and helped other prisoners to rehabilitate. I've certainly changed my views since they were arrested. The death penalty to me is barbaric no matter what country it is. I believe they should have been given life sentences and not to be herded like animals, to be shot in front of a firing squad.

Why did they do it?

"I don't think I was really going anywhere in life. I don't think, you know, I was achieving too much, even though I had a stable job and all. Yes, I don't think I was really heading anywhere, to be honest, you know, I've used drugs myself I was a drug user. You know, I know what it feels like to – to be, you know, one of them junkies walking on the street I guess..... You don't think too much about – I didn't anyway. You know, most people think yeah, you would, but I didn't. It wasn't – more or less for me it was just quick pay day, that's it. Just think to yourself quick pay day, that's it – Nothing more, nothing less."
— Andrew Chan, interviewed in 2010 and broadcast on SBS TV's Dateline following his sentencing and appeal

"Well, basically a friend of mine that I went to uni with asked me to come to a dinner and asked me if I wanted to join a gang. I sort of laughed at that. I was never involved in this in high school, yeah. I was, like, yeah, I'll come to dinner, sitting around dinner, they were talking about all this type of stuff. It was kind of funny to me, like, they pay for dinner and the nightclub afterwards and stuff like that so I was like "Yeah"...it's just the lifestyle, all the people that were living, you know you want to be like those people, get the girls like those people, and I was hoping to buy a car, hoping to start a business. Those are the sort of the things like I didn't see, like, myself working in the mail room for the next 50 years of my life. I thought "No, I can't do this", then you see all these people like in night clubs with nice BMWs, and nice Mercedes and there's always chicks there, and they was buying drinks for everyone and you think "#", how do you do this on a mail room salary."
— Myuran Sukumaran, interviewed in 2010 and broadcast on SBS TV's Dateline following his sentencing and appeal.