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If a person doesn't know 'what' they are, by that I mean if they do not understand their position in the scheme of the phenomenal World, then there is NO possible way for them understand ANYTHING at all, no matter how smart or learned they become . EVERYONE intuitively knows the position I speak of, and if they are aware of anything at all, they can perceive that awareness from none other than this position.
There is absolutely NO proof or evidence which substantiates ANYBODY's version of phenomenal 'reality'. My dear LesMisanthrope, science has gone far beyond the physical 'reality' you treat as solid ground.
Everything you know about your existence, comes from the the input of your sensory perceptions. And ONLY after the brain has recreated its interpretation of what's being percieved, do YOU see it. If you know anything about scientific discovery, you would know that what you perceive of the universe around you is but a finite slice of an infinite spectrum of perception. In addition, ALL of your true knowledge (experiential knowledge..not knowledge from a book) is based SOLEY on this information. So technically speaking, you have absolutely NO idea about what's really outside of the extremely limited and finite information being fed to you from your mind/body instrument. You have NO idea what's happening outside of your skull. Socrates was a wise man because he saw through the illusion of phenomonality and the sense of reality we give to it.
The main problem to post-mortem consciousness is the 'power supply' problem. If, we are that which we call consciousness, then our attempt to 'know' what happens after biological death, requires that our consciousness retains energy and is supplied by some power source to keep it and memory cohesive. During biological life, the physical body is what supplies and organises the power supply, so what can supply the 'energy' after the biological body can no longer do this?
I believe it's moot to speculate. We as a scientific/medically equipped society really don't have the means or apparatus needed to search for that which could prove either way the existence of a Soul.
We have Faith or denial to choose from in this regard. What we do have however, is the option to gamble which is true, soul or no soul. This is a hot topic as the consequences for a wrong absolute belief could be Eternal Bliss, or an Eternity in Torment and separation as described in most religious theology, or that is to say, Occidental man. Western Religions nearly all insist on a Soul as part of their belief system. Even some Eastern religions insist as well.
But wait - how can I know for sure? I never actually SAW a human body decay. Potatoes, vegetables, flowers - yes. And sure enough some animals too - we live in a rural area. But DO humans decay? If I'd base my opinions on personal observation I could not be sure: I never had to witness it. In Europe, humans mostly die in their beds and we bury them just in time not to have to see them decay. Good.
Or you may be right. Neither of us can proof a negative.
originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
originally posted by: humanityrising
The only thing we know is that we don't know; in essence that means neither side of this debate is incontrovertible and %100 airtight. One could argue till the cows came home in one way or another but there is really no point in it. A claim to know for sure the answer to this question might and should be construed as arrogance.
I know for a fact that there is life after death and it isn't arrogance for me to say this.
My own Mom died from cancer unexpectedly when it was said she had at least 6 months to live. I wasn't there when she died, but I knew the exact moment that she did die, because she came to my apartment and I smelled her favorite perfume very strong suddenly, plus I could feel her presence there for a moment. I ran out to the other room and told my wife that Mom just died and so we called home and I told my sister and she was astounded because she had just watched her pass on for herself since she was there with her, and she was about to call me and tell me to get over there quick.
I already knew without any doubt there is life after death, but if I was ever looking for proof of it, then that which had just happened would have done the trick.
If there is no possible way to understand anything at all, we can rightfully assume this about your argument.
There are plenty of sciences. Which science has gone beyond physical reality? and if it isn't speaking about physical reality, what are they speaking about?
That isn't the case. Your idea is invalid, based on your begging the question that there is a little being in the head being fed inputs from outside.
You seem to think we are not our senses nor the rest of the body but a little being who watches what the senses shows him, perhaps like you're in a theatre. That is not the case.
How does this little you view inputs?
Is there another little you in its head?
The idea that I do not know anything outside my skull is unequivocally false,
as is this sort of solipsism. If you don't know anything outside of your skull, then please Visitor, can you describe to me the inside of your skull?
Or take a picture of yourself; if that picture of you shows the inside of your skull, and not the outside, you may then say the camera was inside your skull
I know my soul existed before this life and therefore I believe it will do so again. I don't need to ask any questions of this, I only need faith.
In that context, the consciousness itself IS the source of the energy you speak of, it is THAT from which all perceivable energy is manifested, including the forms that appear within it. The body is the result of the energy, as opposed to being the source of it.
All areas of Quantum science, if I can refer to it as such, investigate areas and concepts beyond the reach of physics based sciences...
Consciousness is not a 'source' of energy, it is simply an emergent conditioned state, organised and mediated by the biological and electro-chemical functioning of the human body and brain.
...what sort of energy is consciousness,
and when biological death completes, how is consciousness able to supply its own energy needs?
How (for want of a better term) is the so-called spirit able to manifest both consciousness and sentient intelligence after death, and how does it circumnavigate entropy?
I believe you are confused. All energetic interactions have a physical effect. Are you aware and do you understand the difference between say 'solidity', 'substance', 'mass', and 'physicality'?
Physicality is neither solidity or substance, neither is mass. Physicality and mass are two effects, whereas solidity and substance are qualitative aspects of matter.
We derive physicality from Newton's third law, where for every action there is an instantaneous and equal opposing reaction. It is this that stops you from falling through the ground towards the earth's core, it has nothing to do with contact with solidity or matter, because there is no contact, only opposing forces denying such contact.
Concepts are abstractions in the mind.
Consciousness has no effect upon anything, because it is a passive state of condition.
Our gaze which is a directed focus of consciousness affects nothing, to make an effect, we have to do physical work. Don't attribute aspects on consciousness that it cannot have.