The Proof of What Happens To Us After Death and the Subsequent denial of it.

Eh Mis, this story sums up how I feel...

www.spiritual-short-stories.com...

Once, in a little pond, in the muddy water under the lily pads, there lived a little water beetle in a community of water beetles. They lived a simple and comfortable life in the pond with few disturbances and interruptions. Once in a while, sadness would come to the community when one of their fellow beetles would climb the stem of a lily pad and would never be seen again. They knew when this happened; their friend was dead, gone forever.

Then, one day, one little water beetle felt an irresistible urge to climb up that stem. However, he was determined that he would not leave forever. He would come back and tell his friends what he had found at the top. When he reached the top and climbed out of the water onto the surface of the lily pad, he was so tired, and the sun felt so warm, that he decided he must take a nap.

As he slept, his body changed and when he woke up, he had turned into a beautiful blue-tailed dragonfly with broad wings and a slender body designed for flying. So, fly he did! And, as he soared he saw the beauty of a whole new world and a far superior way of life to what he had never known existed.

Then he remembered his beetle friends and how they were thinking by now he was dead. He wanted to go back to tell them, and explain to them that he was now more alive than he had ever been before. His life had been fulfilled rather than ended. But, his new body would not go down into the water. He could not get back to tell his friends the good news. Then he understood that their time would come, when they, too, would know what he now knew. -

So, he raised his wings and flew off into his joyous new life!

See more at: www.spiritual-short-stories.com...

a reply to: LesMisanthrope
Thank you for this thread.

I have observed, to put it in general terms, that religions claim that after death, and ethics are matters within their purview. It seems that the religious ethics themselves do not teach people to treat others as immortal beings but rather as mortals. Examples: "do not kill", "feed the poor", "treat others as you would be treated."

I have observed also that exceptions exist. Two anecdotal incidents come to mind. There was a time when a particular group ( a whole religious sect actually ) was being killed in war, and I asked representative members of two different religions: "What about all the people being killed?"

One response was, "That doesn't matter because they're just going to get burned up anyway."

The other response was, "That doesn't matter because they will get re-incarnated."

It is my understanding that neither of these religions publically endorse complete callousness toward the persons of others whom they have never met, that is, people not in their neighborhood.

What would be the flaw of logic if I concluded that the religions themselves don't believe in life after death, because their ethical pronouncements contradict the notion?

a reply to: sparky31

Well that's like saying you aren't alive now in my opinion. What you say exists after death (nothing) is the same thing that existed before your birth (nothing). That "nothing" before your birth eventually lead to this "something" you experience now, I don't think it's any different after death, the "nothing" you believe exists will eventually lead to another "something" just as it did before you were born. Cycles, the universe is full of them.

The only thing we know is that we don't know; in essence that means neither side of this debate is incontrovertible and %100 airtight. One could argue till the cows came home in one way or another but there is really no point in it. A claim to know for sure the answer to this question might and should be construed as arrogance.

a reply to: artistpoet

If the soul didn't exist, I think it would make a difference.For me, the belief in soul gives me an opportunity to draw from deeper wells of inspiration.A part of me looked at the cup as half empty more often in times of doubt...

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Elementalist

Your still trying to convince yourself there is no spirit life ..

Enjoy the dirt

The sad part is there is infinitely more to dirt than there is to any spirit you could provide.

Hahahaha... oh I'm an Elementalist, my passion is nature and spirit, you don't have to tell me about dirt

I guess with your logic and conclusion, people like me should see a therapist!? Because I deffinately belive in my spirit and soul 1000000% and nothing will convince me it does not exist.

Open your minds eye/third eye, have a nonphysical experience, then start making threads in the metaphysical forums.

Otherwise stop pushing your bull# on this website. We get it, your anti spirit, Have a nice life then.

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml
Eh Mis, this story sums up how I feel...

www.spiritual-short-stories.com...

Once, in a little pond, in the muddy water under the lily pads, there lived a little water beetle in a community of water beetles. They lived a simple and comfortable life in the pond with few disturbances and interruptions. Once in a while, sadness would come to the community when one of their fellow beetles would climb the stem of a lily pad and would never be seen again. They knew when this happened; their friend was dead, gone forever.

Then, one day, one little water beetle felt an irresistible urge to climb up that stem. However, he was determined that he would not leave forever. He would come back and tell his friends what he had found at the top. When he reached the top and climbed out of the water onto the surface of the lily pad, he was so tired, and the sun felt so warm, that he decided he must take a nap.

As he slept, his body changed and when he woke up, he had turned into a beautiful blue-tailed dragonfly with broad wings and a slender body designed for flying. So, fly he did! And, as he soared he saw the beauty of a whole new world and a far superior way of life to what he had never known existed.

Then he remembered his beetle friends and how they were thinking by now he was dead. He wanted to go back to tell them, and explain to them that he was now more alive than he had ever been before. His life had been fulfilled rather than ended. But, his new body would not go down into the water. He could not get back to tell his friends the good news. Then he understood that their time would come, when they, too, would know what he now knew. -

So, he raised his wings and flew off into his joyous new life!

See more at: www.spiritual-short-stories.com...

I had read this story a long time ago and had forgotten about it. Thank you so much for bringing it back to me. Inspiring!

originally posted by: superman2012
I think they might be referring to the energy that makes us up. Energy cannot be destroyed, it just changes form. Whether other forms of energy are able to be conscious (as we know it) has not been proven nor disproven as far as I have seen.
Just playing devils advocate.

Obviously that's the only thing they could be talking about, which is absolutely positively 100% proof of jack $((!T, concerning religion or spiritualism....

Why on earth, would the electromagnetic and chemical energy in your body stay togather with your conciousness after your brain dies? It wouldn't. ...

It dissipates into the earths magnetic field and....nuthing!


The title of the thread (like so many others) should be (blank) is not proof of the afterlife, but some people will bald face lie to you to get you to believe there garbage.


Way to deny ignorance OP!!

a reply to: humanityrising

How true! UFO discussions are the same as this thread. Everyone has a belief, but no one has proof. Until proof arrives on either subject, the discussions are pretty much just a way for well-off, or bored people to pass the time.

a reply to: carewemust

Where, or how would you prove this?My position is rather obvious, I'm just wondering on a personal or collective level how LesMis or those taking a similar position imagine their perspective changing...

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: artistpoet

Nor has science proven that the soul does not exist

If you look in your pocket and there is no money there, it is then proven there is no money there.

Yeah, of course. And one would have to see the contents of their entire pocket to make such a claim. Scientists are still investigating this so-called pocket you're referring to. Yet, none of them have made that assertion.

While I'm confident our "soul" lies in the firing of our neurons, I don't believe Science has yet been able to draw the conclusion because application of theory from observations cannot yet explain the emergence of consciousness. If we could, AI would be a cinch. We're just now starting to create synthetic cognition and learning but have not observed emergence of consciousness or sense of self in those systems and have no way of explaining how it might work.

I think someday we will be able to explain this phenomena and we'll be able to conclude that death of the brain is death of the consciousness. And I think given the absolute lack of evidence for life after death, total death remains the more likely outcome. But I haven't seen a scientific description of consciousness that has been tested...recreated if you will in the lab at any scale of time. It may be just years away, but we're not there yet and can't declare the absence of an explanation or development of a particular measurement proof of anything with regard to consciousness. Science doesn't work that way. Its a misunderstanding of science if you believe it can declare facts in lack of testable evidence and we are all aware of the phenomenon of the consciousness we all experience, but cannot explain how it occurs given what we currently know of the brain.

I've lived my adult life assuming I had a soul. I was shot and left for dead at a young age.
After crawling for at least an hour.i found help.Shortly after I'm above myself watching.this continued through the ambulance ride and panic in the ER. Since that fateful day. I have been an information junkie. I believe im here to gain the laughter and pain .learn and feel as much as I can so ill be better next time around. I have no religious affiliation.so I have no idea where this inclination comes from.

this is funny because you want proof of the soul which is like lets say antimatter. It does literally not exists in physical sense, how do you measure such a thing? how can you prove it to others?

If a person is self-realized and really knows "who am I", than maybe they can show some feats such as miracles but for ordinary person who has never met anyone like that, what is left?

Certainly we all have our imagination and thoughts which can come to some conclusions but that is still just our internal dialog and images. Which are created with conscious process in our brains. And as such they can never grasp the real nature of our being.

If you want to know for sure then you must make an effort on your OWN to go beyond! Beyond thought and imagination, beyond our senses of the body and only then you can and will experience what is life like from soul perspective.

Imagine the soul like the most still and constant thing possible, which is ever present and it is ALL parts of us. So how can unstill mind and body experience the most still and ever present part which is everything but nothing and the same time.

The beetle in the pond was eloquent. Also the alien perspective was on par. Untill you've seen it or experienced it. You just have people who have not. Speculating. Understandable.I don't believe it was cognitive If had minutes of brain function left.why ? Of all things would I see myself at my demise? Was that me? I awoke being told by my family of the ordeal. I said I know I seen you at the hospital. Not quite realize the implications of what I said. They to this day remember me flat lined. There is a soul.

Excellent Interview with someone who deals with Consciousness on a daily basis, also a teacher in his trade, a professor and leader in this field.



If this guy says there is life after death, I would listen very carefully !

Experts in the field speaking out !

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: superman2012

I think they might be referring to the energy that makes us up. Energy cannot be destroyed, it just changes form. Whether other forms of energy are able to be conscious (as we know it) has not been proven nor disproven as far as I have seen.
Just playing devils advocate.

And what is energy?

It's the reaction of particles that make up the universe.... hence the old idea of us never being seperate, neither in "life" nor "death" both of which are constructs limited to the perception of the human brain, an organism that is inhabitable by a focussed form of energy.

Alan Watts speculates that "life" is us playing hide and seek with ourselves, which makes perfect sense, since by entering this form of organic matter and "living" inside it for the duration of which its cellular reproduction is still active, we are limiting the true potential of the energy which we started out as and effectively "forgetting" ourselves or "hiding" from ourselves.

A cadaver is dirt is a flower is a bee is a bird is a...... it's takes a human mind to negate the idea of neverending cycles. Simply because this particular game of hide and seek is so advanced that none of us really wants to leave it when the time comes. Unless ofcourse you have experience more than you felt like you needed to. The "life" becomes that extra round of "insert video game name here" that you didn't really want to play or at least didn't gain anything from.
Then I imagine turning the game off would be a nice relief.

What happens after we die? Well... "you'll see" is the best answer, and no matter who you are, you will probably arrive in the next form either completely carefree or with a "wauw!" feeling.

Imagine the most complex virtual simulation game you can that is not relying on today's technology, a game only defined by the limitations of your brain. "You only ever know what you can put into words".....
That game would be pretty damn crazy.
Imagine, that right now... you are sitting in a chair, lying in a machine and all this, right here and right now, is the brain of your particular form of organic being working overtime. That all this is merely a form of entertainment in what ever life is in what ever world that this device was invented in.

I can almost drive you nuts. and makes sitting and playing computers or consoles look even more like a damn waste of time haha.

originally posted by: humanityrising
The only thing we know is that we don't know; in essence that means neither side of this debate is incontrovertible and %100 airtight. One could argue till the cows came home in one way or another but there is really no point in it. A claim to know for sure the answer to this question might and should be construed as arrogance.

I know for a fact that there is life after death and it isn't arrogance for me to say this.

My own Mom died from cancer unexpectedly when it was said she had at least 6 months to live. I wasn't there when she died, but I knew the exact moment that she did die, because she came to my apartment and I smelled her favorite perfume very strong suddenly, plus I could feel her presence there for a moment. I ran out to the other room and told my wife that Mom just died and so we called home and I told my sister and she was astounded because she had just watched her pass on for herself since she was there with her, and she was about to call me and tell me to get over there quick.

I already knew without any doubt there is life after death, but if I was ever looking for proof of it, then that which had just happened would have done the trick.

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: TNMockingbird

I believe in my soul and that those who we love or have loved in this life are those with whom we share an affinity
I lost my Father this year but he is still with me ... I do not have to prove this to any

Regarding my question ... For myself it would make no difference
I would continue to love and cherish my friends and family to do any other would cause me sadness and regret

However it is my firm belief that the soul exists

He is with you in your mind not as an external force/spirit or soul as you call it!

I lost my father nearly 10 years ago and beforehand we had always believed that when you die you are dead and there is nothing more. He said he would let me know in some way if there was then he died. Sadly, ive not herd or experienced anything! So he has gone in the most profound sense. Yet he is still with me in mind/thought!!!

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I guess you missed the book "Proof of Heaven" by the neurosurgeon Dr. Alexander Elder?

www.abovetopsecret.com...&flagit=888994

In fact there are millions of near death experiences reported from around the world through the ages.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Dr. Elder's experience shows these are not dreams or latent biochemistry, his brain was being monitored, and all higher levels of his brain showed no activity during his experiences.

So OP, ya, if you ignore all this then your assertion might have a chance. But to ignore it is to be in the denial that you accuse others.