The Proof of What Happens To Us After Death and the Subsequent denial of it.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

See what I mean. The PhD they flew in from Atlanta Georgia CDC walked into my ICU room after me being in a coma for a month and a half after the first one....his exact words to me were, "Do you believe in God? Because you should. He is the only reason you are here today. You had a team of 12 different doctors and I threw everything I had at you and them some experimental drugs and NOTHING worked. You are only alive because God wanted you alive." CRS has a 98% mortality rate.

You are talking to someone who has survived 2 heart attacks, congestive heart failure, 2 NDE's and being struck by lightning. Careful? LMAO! I am only 43! Well educated and very experienced in life. Sorry yours is so boring and so closed minded. Do you really think I survived all that because I am a healthy strong woman? Come on.........

a reply to: bb23108

So are you saying that regardless of your experience, your current physically-based "facts" reign supreme?

I am saying there are more probable and more likely explanations, without having to appeal to the impossible.

So you are saying that regardless of your experience, your current religious-based "facts" reign supreme?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

These words I am typing are a part of me that I am transferring over an invisible connection to your computer. If we are only a body then how am I transmitting my thoughts through the internet? Are these words my body? If not, then what are they? Are they not an invisible, non-physical part of my being that I am projecting through my keyboard and onto your computer screen?

No, you're just pushing the keys. The hardware does the rest of the work for you. I think most children know this nowadays.

How does the Internet work?

These invisible parts of my being (thoughts being transformed into words over the internet and onto a computer screen) are a part of existence that the OP denies exists. The fact that you have invisible thoughts and memories is proof that you are more than just a body. Those things cannot be seen by the eye, yet they are there and easily accessible at any moment. Where are they coming from and where do they go once they are thought of? They are part of a higher dimension that your lower dimensional body taps into, they are part of the spiritual world that you deny exists.

I've heard some strange things in my life, but this is right up there with the best of them.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

So you are saying that regardless of your experience, your current religious-based "facts" reign supreme?

As I have said several times, when such facts are fully self-evident to me, they do trump your conceptual mental logic to the contrary.

In other words, each person should find out for themselves if there is anything beyond the material, by being open to directly experiencing it through real equanimity and full participation in whatever it is - not just mentalizing about it.

a reply to: cloudwatcher

You are talking to someone who has survived 2 heart attacks, congestive heart failure, 2 NDE's and being struck by lightning. Careful? LMAO! I am only 43! Well educated and very experienced in life. Sorry yours is so boring and so closed minded. Do you really think I survived all that because I am a healthy strong woman? Come on.........

There is a difference between near death, and death. Yes my life is so boring because because I haven't had heart failure and struck by lighting. I'll put them on my bucket list.

a reply to: bb23108

As I have said several times, when such facts are fully self-evident to me, they do trump your conceptual mental logic to the contrary.

They seem to trump reality, as well.

No matter how hard you try to convince yourself or others, the possibility in your mind of you really having a spirit will never ever fade. You can rationalize all you want but you won't ever win against your inner conscience. You may claim to know that there is nothing after death but you know well that this is only your ego trying to convince you.

You are like a scientist that believes in something yet won't do the experiments needed to prove his beliefs.

a reply to: theMediator

No matter how hard you try to convince yourself or others, the possibility in your mind of you really having a spirit will never ever fade. You can rationalize all you want but you won't ever win against your inner conscience. You may claim to know that there is nothing after death but you know well that this is only your ego trying to convince you.

You are like a scientist that believes in something yet won't do the experiments needed to prove his beliefs.

You believe you are something other than what you are. The folly is yours.

I don't think there is nothing after death. There is plenty after death, but the dead do not get to take part in it.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: theMediator

No matter how hard you try to convince yourself or others, the possibility in your mind of you really having a spirit will never ever fade. You can rationalize all you want but you won't ever win against your inner conscience. You may claim to know that there is nothing after death but you know well that this is only your ego trying to convince you.

You are like a scientist that believes in something yet won't do the experiments needed to prove his beliefs.

You believe you are something other than what you are. The folly is yours.

I don't think there is nothing after death. There is plenty after death, but the dead do not get to take part in it.

one would think you would spend less time posting demotivational threads and more time with the people you care about (ie not us) since you will be nothing in less than 50 years.

a reply to: TzarChasm

one would think you would spend less time posting demotivational threads and more time with the people you care about (ie not us) since you will be nothing in less than 50 years.

Here I am, the subject of your posts once again. Perhaps you should take your own advice, since you're probably just realizing you cannot argue against anything I've said. Hopefully it's not too late.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: bb23108
They seem to trump reality, as well.

Yes, definitely the truth is beyond just this physical reality, and when that is directly known, it does not discard the physical reality - it just puts it in its proper context.

I accept you do not agree with this, but your whole argument has only demonstrated that scientific-materialism proves that materials appear and disappear. To conclude that this means that is all that exists, is naive - it is just what science needs to do because of its limited scope and methodology.

I can just observe and come to the same conclusion - yes, materials and body-minds appear and disappear. This is self-evident. I don't need science to prove that to me.

Just like I don't need science to prove that there is life beyond this mortal physical existence. This is equally self-evident to me.

a reply to: bb23108

Yes, definitely the truth is beyond just this physical reality, and when that is directly known, it does not discard the physical reality - it just puts it in its proper context.

I accept you do not agree with this, but your whole argument has only demonstrated that scientific-materialism proves that materials appear and disappear. To conclude that this means that is all that exists, is naive - it is just what science needs to do because of its limited scope and methodology.

I can just observe and come to the same conclusion - yes, materials and body-minds appear and disappear. This is self-evident. I don't need science to prove that to me.

Just like I don't need science to prove that there is life beyond this mortal physical existence. This is equally self-evident to me.

I don't need science either. My argument has demonstrated exactly what the title says.

As for your anti-scientific immaterialism, it demonstrates quite clearly immaterials and mind-souls cannot even appear, let alone persist beyond the materials it claims primacy over. This is the going rate for many anti-scientific immaterialists, and is the case despite thousands of years of this sort of dogma.

We had a good go at it though.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
As for your anti-scientific immaterialism, it demonstrates quite clearly immaterials and mind-souls cannot even appear, let alone persist beyond the materials it claims primacy over. This is the going rate for many anti-scientific immaterialists, and is the case despite thousands of years of this sort of dogma.

Well of course they appear, silly - just not usually in this physical realm. Just like physical objects don't appear in the subtle realms.

a reply to: bb23108

Well of course they appear, silly - just not usually in this physical realm. Just like physical objects don't appear in the subtle realms.

Let's keep it that way.

a reply to: SuperFrog

Using the same logic, question of unicorns will never go away until conclusively proven. The idea of unicorns will never be disprove. (if this is what you mean )

Let us have an intelligent conversation and not include such ridiculous ideas
It is an age old question ... and a fact ... People have always questioned what occurs to them upon death ... Not the body as that is given fact we all know and is not in question
What have Unicorns to do with the age old question of what occurs to the being upon death ... You choose to believe you are the body ... well fine then in your perception of things you will be food for worms

Do you really think the body is all that you are ... and what do you really understand about the body

I am being harsh I know ... But I am tired of phoney rhetoric

Tell me what you truly understand
Tell me where your thoughts originate from
Tell me what was behind the prime movement that caused the Universe to exist
The source of what science measures as brain activity
Do you truly think that once the brain ceases to function that the source the prime movement ceases to exist
Do you truly know how you were created

You may belittle yourself but I will not

You know nothing of these things if so say so ...

I speak my truth and you know nothing of me ... you are closed minded
And also you think you are on the winning side of this debate

I have no desire to win anything
I am sure of myself and need not offer proof to any

Have you ever considered you have a purpose to fulfil
A reason for being on Earth

You understand so little from your body centred worms eye view of all that is

I am tired of such closed mindedness dressed in Philosophical bunk
Let the Earth swallow your rotting flesh and be no more for that is what you believe

You show no concept of True Intelligence and what that truly means

So show me what you truly understand for your words are empty and void

a reply to: bb23108

You are wasting your time ... Les Mis is brick wall of closed mindedness
He will never consider any of your thoughts and ideas .. his mind is pre set ... he enjoys mental gymnastics and is playing a mind game
He started this thread as a provocation ... He felt confident in himself he could win a perceived debate
Well Yes Duh the body upon death rots into the Earth ... so what is new

Les will rot in the earth and the world go on in his estimation of things

If you were to say very clever things in a correct grammatical way he would no doubt be impressed and mentally masturbate thinking how clever he was ... Did you know this type is predictable like a pre programmed robot ...

What has this thread / provocation proved ... nothing at all
Apart from that Les thinks he is the body and will rot upon his demise and attempts to force his narrow minded view on you
Allow him to think that ... it is his choice

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You totally missed the point of what I was saying, I'm not surprised though. I wasn't talking about the words on your computer screen, I was talking about where they came from. Are words physical? Not at all, they're abstract concepts located within the mind. Abstract ideas are not of the physical world, yet they are a part of your being, a part that you deny exists.

originally posted by: artistpoet
You are wasting your time ... Les Mis is brick wall of closed mindedness
He will never consider any of your thoughts and ideas .. his mind is pre set ... he enjoys mental gymnastics and is playing a mind game

Oh, no worries, my friend. I am not trying to convince LesMis or anyone of anything. I have used his arguments since I joined in 2013 as a means to test my own convictions, learn from others, and also improve my communication skills. If what I say helps anyone, all the better.

LesMis brings up interesting topics generally, and yes, they are generally of a similar theme as this one in terms of his stance, but I participate when I want to play, and I know from having done this for a while, he is doing the same.

I think he is honing his arguments for whatever his reasons are. Maybe he is just at work and wants to pass some time in a way that he enjoys - so no praise or blame there. When I get tired of it, I just move on.

Regardless, we are all modifications of the same Reality and as such are connected one way or another, and I will never regret my connection with the folks here. Thank you for your concern though, and also your contributions.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: bb23108

Let's keep it that way.

Oh no, now you tell me! It's too late!

Tonight you will be visited by three ...

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Lots to get to here.

Like I mentioned in my last reply, the simulation theory of memory is my current understanding on the subject of remembering. I do not hold any sort of conviction in it (as, like you said, such a theory is likely to change, and it is still in its infancy), but it definitely has empirical and intuitive merit. The theory stipulates we activate the very same parts of the brain as we did when we first experienced the event. So we are not refering to anything called a memory as such, but we are simulating the event we are remembering by activating the same parts of the brain we did when it occured. Seems simple enough.

Seems simple until you are required to describe the materially-structured management function (you repeatedly refer to it as "we" above) that activates these "parts of the brain" and generates these simulations, and does so on-the-fly in the manner that is experienced by literally every person on a daily (hell, moment-to-moment) basis. Talk about glossing over a really important technical item with a theoretical premise. That's pretty stunning.

The applied sciences can lead. Without the technology to perform the experimental work, theoretical science is mere philosophy.

And yet, the entire discipline called Cosmology has always been reduced to math equations, models and computer simulations, and dazzling feats of Inductivism in its efforts to offer any notions whatsoever concerning what can and cannot be considered responsible scientific theory. No experiments are possible when testing theories involving macro-systems of such scale, and (whether you agree or not) 90% of what is gleaned from radio telescopes is based on decades-old conjecture concerning what could be determined from vaguely similar blurs and smudges buried in mountains of otherwise inconclusive data. Of course, no scientist with an interest in his/her career would ever suggest such a thing.

Emergence itself isn't an exotic notion, but what I stated was that when it is applied to mind, it fails. Nothing of a mind or system emerges, is my contention.

I hope you look into that book I linked. It makes the case that the mind is such an emergent system. It's very well researched and equally well presented. I learned a lot from it myself.