Introducing persian cats - Iranian F-14AM

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: In4ormant
Cause it is bigger.

And it ours go to eleven.

Yeah it is.

But no one likes a dick waver.

And iran are just doing the best with what they got.

With any luck our idiot politicians have avoided a stupid war with Iran.

Iran upgrades here are not to battle f35 or f22.

a reply to: In4ormant

There are always people on both sides that are convinced their side is the greatest. Nothing wrong with it, just ignore it. It's easiest.

Crazy Ewok,
"But no one likes a dick waver."

Tell me about it. One time this Judge had to repeat something similar like 3 times before I caught on.

In4ormant,
Whoa, Whoa!!! I was referencing Spinal Tap! Calm down there, what do you think this is? This is ATS not the Penthouse Forums. Kids read these posts.

Zaph,
That is horrible advice! You know ignoring me just makes me act up more in an attempt to seek attention.

But seriously, We all love the Tomcat. It was a sweet bad ass plane. Not knocking it. Just surprised that Iran is trying to back engineer a 55 year old engine design. Why not go to General Electrics website and study marketing pictures of the new ADVENT and get a leg up on the old F30?

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Think someone's earlier post about it being more cost effective with current inventory probably rings true.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: tadaman

As long as the center wing box holds up, and corrosion (which is going to be a major issue for the area) is handled, there's no reason they can't fly for a long time to come.

They'd make a pretty good aggressor trainer in the future.

Irans Stealthy fighter/bomber

THIS always makes me laugh. The footage they released of it flying is a R/C aircraft. listen to the oscillations of the engine for further proof of it being a R/c craft.

Now im not saying it will NEVER FLY because alot of aircraft are actually tested in that way as a Small R/C to test its air worthiness(usually countries without wind tunnel facilities)

Now i LOVE the Tomcat. I would love to see a new version come out but making it more angular and give them thrust vectoring engines with a RCS reducing coating. Using Graphene in the construction might also make it faster and more structurally sound. ALso dispose of the REO for a Flight computer that does the same job.

a reply to: peck420

And your point is? Every nation has rarely went to war by itself. Russia got beat on several occasions for doing so.

Latvian War of Independence
(1918–1920) Russia was defeated by Latvia and Lithuanian resulted in the Independence of Latvia and Lithuania.

Estonian War of Independence
(1918–1920) Russia defeated again by Estonia

The Republic of Georgia also fought the South Ossetian rebels, crushed them and the Russian troops there helping them in the process. During the same time in 1920.

In 1921 Poland and Ukraine defeated the Soviets.

And lets not forget that Russia, China and North Korea were about to be defeated in North Korea before the parties signed the Armistice. The U.S. Britain and Australia were pushing the Chicoms back on their heals and that is why they signed. If it was not for millions of Chinese pouring across the border NK would have ceased to exist. They pushed us far south but we pushed them right back and they had no other choice to sign or be pushed all the way back into China. The U.S. still had nuclear weapons and could have ended that war real quick and should have when China attacked in mass.

one of my favorite all time planes

why they couldn't give us a stealth version is beyond me.

a reply to: grey580
Sadly because VG wing plan forms are anathema to low RCS.

A re-winging and re-engining of the SH however is both doable and desirable, it may even be feasible to carry out a fuselage stretch if this led to better aerodynamics similar to what they did with the D model Tomcat. This adds fuel and electronics room as well.

Personally I think the Iranians have done extremely well in managing the life cycles and upgrading of not just their F-14 fleet but also the F-4 and F-5.

On the subject of the TF-30, we had them in our F-111C's and G's. The RAAF and DSTO managed to build a hybrid version that was used over the last decade or so of the Pigs service which mated different modules from various TF-30 versions together with a new design combustor from memory. This vastly improved reliability, maintainability and also saw increases in thrust and lower fuel burn. I think another byproduct of the new type combustor was less smoke. Altogether it was a cost effective and manageable upgrade that was done largely in house with little OEM support. So I dont see it as being beyond Iran's reach to accomplish something similar. ADVENT it aint, but its a useful improvement.

LEE.

LEE.

Be interested to see what they do with the Phoenix.

Hmm . So F-14 with a new radar that has +300km range and BVR missiles with +500km range pose no threat to US F-18s and F-15s ?

F-14 is a Air superiority fighter and is a damn solid one . It cannot go head to head Against F-22 , no way in hell it can .

but it can down fleets of F-18 . damn straight it can .

The fact that Iran chooses a more economic-friendly approach towards its aging fleet has nothing to do with it being "obsolete" .

a reply to: haman10

The Phoenix missile is largely useless against fighter sized aircraft. It always was, and an upgrade of isn't going to change that. It was designed to take on flights of slow bombers that fly a predictable course and speed.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: haman10

The Phoenix missile is largely useless against fighter sized aircraft. It always was, and an upgrade of isn't going to change that. It was designed to take on flights of slow bombers that fly a predictable course and speed.

Well , Iranian Operational History says otherwise . maybe you know better than 2nd General Jalil zandi - Ace F-14 pilot who shot down 11 fighters or captain hashemi who shot down 4 Iraqi fighters with just one phoenix - yeah you heard me right !! here : en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

All in all, the Iranian Air Force was said to have launched possibly 70 to 90 AIM-54A missiles, and 60–70 of those scored.[vague] Of those, almost 90 percent of the AIM-54A missiles fired were used against Iraqi fighters and fighter-bombers. Only about a dozen[vague] victories by AIM-54s were claimed[by whom?] to be against fast, high-flying targets such as the MiG-25 or Tu-22 'Blinder'.

According to IRIAF officials about 90% of phoenix missiles fired , scored .

This is ignoring the fact that in a couple of incidents , 1 phoenix shot more than 1 fighter .

ALCON , no . Upgraded phoenix can indeed be a very formidable threat .

Iran's BVR capabilities are higher (in range) than that of US since F-14s are no longer in service in US .

a reply to: haman10

Shooting down 4 fighters in one shot is an anomaly. If the pilots were flying in fingertip or some other type of close formation that either means their training was horrible or they weren't prepared to fight at all or both). A flight of fighters going head to head with the enemies pre-merge will fan out at large intervals so this type of thing doesn't happen.

The snippet doesn't say that 90% of shots scored. It says 90% of their employments were against a certain type of aircraft. As per the first two lines, it's possible that they fired 90 missiles with only 60 hits. A 66% kill probability is not something to brag about.

When making this argument that the Iranian F-14s are extremely deadly against other 4th gen fighters you're assuming that there would be a fair fight. In all likelihood that wouldn't happen.

a reply to: haman10

You do realize that the point of the Phoenix was to hit large formations of aircraft, right? So yes, if they're flying close together it's going to do exactly that.

As pointed out, it was not 90%, and most of them were against fighter-bombers. That means they were loaded down with heavy payloads and not able to maneuver well. The Phoenix is so large that it can be detected on radar by the target. A well trained pilot will be able to generate an overshoot because it's not very maneuverable.

It can be effective in forcing attack aircraft to drop their payloads to be able to maneuver and avoid it though.

a reply to: Patriotsrevenge
Took the time to type all of that up, but couldn't be bothered to actually read the thread, or read the post that I was responding too.

Colour me surprised.

a reply to: haman10

Since when has the Iranian air force always been truthful? the drone was not landed but crashed in the desert. It was repaired though but point is its interception was lied about.

Anyway the original pheonix only has the latest missiles beat by 3 miles in range actually. Sounds liek advantage still Iran right?
Unfortunatly not since the F-22,and F-35 can be closer before being picked up on the tomcats radar.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: haman10

You do realize that the point of the Phoenix was to hit large formations of aircraft, right? So yes, if they're flying close together it's going to do exactly that.

As pointed out, it was not 90%, and most of them were against fighter-bombers. That means they were loaded down with heavy payloads and not able to maneuver well. The Phoenix is so large that it can be detected on radar by the target. A well trained pilot will be able to generate an overshoot because it's not very maneuverable.

It can be effective in forcing attack aircraft to drop their payloads to be able to maneuver and avoid it though.

But if Iran was fighting a regional enemy not the US?

Say the Saudis ect Would there pilots be as well trained?

a reply to: crazyewok

It depends on the country. Saudi, no from what I've heard. The UAE would probably have no trouble.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: crazyewok

It depends on the country. Saudi, no from what I've heard. The UAE would probably have no trouble.

Well the Saudi would be the most likely to ever fight Iran after Israel.

Im going to hazard a fight with Israel would go the same way as a fight with the US. What ever you think of there ethical policy's there air force is nasty.