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America Needs Room for Agreement

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posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 11:53 AM
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America Needs Room for Agreement


Dana Perino, former White House press secretary for President George W. Bush and co-host of the Fox News Channels "The Five," makes a plea for civility in her book "And the Good News Is ..."

Shes worried that "Weve gone from being the confident leader of the free world to bickering about every living thing under the sun." Perino is not against arguing, mind you.

"(B)eing civil means that we can argue vehemently and then either find some compromise, call it a tie or move onto something else," she writes.


Or do we just want to fight? Call names? Mock? Ridicule? Point fingers? Hate? Or, worst of all, use the full force of government to impose the will of some on the many at the point of a gun? Because that's pretty much what I see -- here at ATS and everywhere. We are stagnating in anger and fear and self-righteousness as people suffer and the world crumbles around us. Even when people try to take a principled stand or to reach out to the other side, the people and efforts are vilified and renounced. Examples abound:'

Gay Panic: Jenner, Rubio, Cruz Shock Parochial Mainstream Media

More blowback for gay businessmen who hosted Ted Cruz

A Student Wanted A Conversation On Religious Freedom; She Got A Petition Against Her Instead

‘Why is he so mad?’ Writer for Conan O’Brien dares GOP to invite Bruce Jenner to convention

Whites Excluded From ‘Black Lives Matter’ Forum On Angelo West Shooting

I am well aware that the PTB thrive when the people are too busy fighting amongst themselves to fight them... I am also well aware that there are those -- call them shills, trolls, paid operatives, whatever -- who knowingly and deliberately instigate and perpetuate this in-fighting amongst the people for their own agendas and personal gain. But it also seems that the people are quite willing to play the same game... or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that too many people are willing to be played. "Occupy" and the "Tea Party" had much in common; if they had found their common ground -- corrupt politicians and government -- and worked together to establish common principles both could work and fight for, they could have been a force to be reckoned with. Instead, they allowed themselves to be hijacked and their messages co-opted by the extremes in both partisan camps.

I understand that finding and understanding the root cause of any problem is necessary to finding and understanding the solutions. But at some point, we must move beyond the blame game to talking and discussing and working together... unless, of course, the end game is to simply impose one's will on another, in which case enough said.

Is that where we're at? Is that what we want? If not -- and it's certainly not what I want, nor is that in any way in keeping with natural law and our Constitution -- we need to find ways to do better. How?

Do we want to do better? Or are we changing our organic law to Wonderland law? "All ways are MY ways..."




posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

I believe it simply comes down to belief in the supernatural.

The supernatural ability of a group of as yet unidentified officials who will achieve through legislation the betterment of mankind for all eternity.

You really can't reason with a person who holds such a belief, you can only wait for them to grow up which they eventually do.

However, the damage from government expansion is already extensive and is daily increasing.

It remains an open question. Will we come to our senses in time?

"Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society’s virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion — when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing — when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors — when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you — when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice — you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that it does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot."

-Ayn Rand
edit on 26-4-2015 by greencmp because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

It may be hard to confront, yet, I see no other way than an ideological fight that results in a 'winner'. Even though we, potentially, all could lose.

I sit in the camp that sees us all losing if lines aren't re-drawn in the sand and maintained at any cost, even though the other side busily continues erasing any and all 'lines'....


edit on 26-4-2015 by nwtrucker because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea


What is this political compromise you speak of? The only time our politicians do anything bi-partisan is when it has negative consequences for the people and benefits themselves or their lobbyist.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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As long as people attempt to force their beliefs on others with no factual, rational, or logical reasoning... the situation will not change.

All sides are guilty.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 12:52 PM
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originally posted by: Answer
As long as people attempt to force their beliefs on others with no factual, rational, or logical reasoning... the situation will not change.

All sides are guilty.


Agree,

Also, how is it "compromise" to give up a freedom we have today in exchange for nothing from the "other side"? Continuously.


Compromise to the totalitarians is "we will not take as many of your rights or property" as WE wanted too. So we will only take half, Deal? That is their idea of compromise.

Example:




edit on 26-4-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 01:09 PM
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Great OP. I fully agree seeing it as a problem of mutually assured distraction while least of the worst-only on the surface- is elected meanwhile things go on with the "real" government.

Citizens as a whole have to move beyond that, realizing what is actually going on here, and take into consideration that not everyone is going to agree 100 percent all the time.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

S&F

The way I see it, people don't want change, they want their "two minutes of fame".

The very vast majority of Americans(all creeds and colors) don't give a damn about fixing what's wrong with our Country, they just want to show some faux outrage on whatever cause, to show they care. If people HONESTLY wanted to fix a few things that ails us, we would join together and get snip done!...

Gun violence--- We refuse to work together to fix what's broken. Instead, we fight among ourselves debating the same crap we have for decades. Never addressing the real issues, nor working on a solution. It's pathetic! If our voices would join together and DEMAND that when crimes get committed, the punishment is enforced to its maximum extent. EVERY TIME. Stop letting repeat criminals carry on with their BS. Enforce the damn law!

Refusing service--- Why should a business be forced into making (or providing a service) for something they don't want to?

If you simply took your business elsewhere, more "slippery slope" issues wouldn't arise. If forcing a Christian to make a gay wedding cake is okay, them it's fine to make a Muslim cake maker to bake a cake with the prophet Mohammad eating bacon and swilling beer..... Neither scenario is okay and if we wanted something done, we'd ban together and not shop at the places that discriminate.

Black lives matter--- We should be screaming ALL lives matter. Why do 90%(I made that stat up) of shootings with multiple witnesses, where someone was killed go unsolved? Lots and lots of people know who did the deed, why not be honest and make sure the perp is held accountable? Because you don't care, you just want your voice heard for a while.

I could go on with hundreds of other issues, but y'all get the point. We don't want to fix anything. We would rather argue about silly crap. No uniting us together, just divide. My side is right and you're an idiot. Rinse and repeat on every damn issue we face.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: greencmp


I believe it simply comes down to belief in the supernatural.

The supernatural ability of a group of as yet unidentified officials who will achieve through legislation the betterment of mankind for all eternity.


Yes, I've seen this belief (for want of a better word). I do not understand it. In an idealistic world, this could and would happen... but we live in the real world. It is not legislation that makes a better world, it is better people, free to be the best they can be. Legislation can ( and inevitably does ) work against us more often than for us.

Making government bigger and stronger only works against us. But making people better and stronger benefits everyone.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 02:17 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Boadicea

It may be hard to confront, yet, I see no other way than an ideological fight that results in a 'winner'.


I still want to believe that we can all be "winners" -- whatever that means to us. But that also means no "losers" -- so no one forcing their will on anyone. That's when we all lose. In my world view, if I am free to make my own choices, then I'm a winner. I don't want to be told what to do, I don't want to tell others what to do, I don't want anyone telling others what to do. If we could only agree on that much, it would be tremoundous progress.





posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 02:23 PM
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originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Boadicea


What is this political compromise you speak of? The only time our politicians do anything bi-partisan is when it has negative consequences for the people and benefits themselves or their lobbyist.


Agreed -- wholeheartedly!

And from where I'm sitting, one of the reasons they get away with it is because the rest of us are more intent on fighting each other than the PTB. And they will continue to do the same, unless and until we stop them. But we cannot do that until we stop fighting each other and start working together. What can bring people -- you and me and our neighbors -- to a happy middle ground? How can we find and demand that happy medium?



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 02:29 PM
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originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: Boadicea
"Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society’s virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion — when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing — when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors — when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you — when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice — you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that it does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot."
-Ayn Rand


Thank you so much for that quote. It's bloody brilliant. I hadn't credited Rand with that much insight. Debate and compromise left politics some time ago, I wonder if it even existed in my lifetime. Our 2 party system might once have had a chance of working if compromise were the operating principle but the only thing close to compromise is all done in back room deals behind closed doors, leaving the public out of the loop and the process.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 02:35 PM
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originally posted by: Answer
As long as people attempt to force their beliefs on others with no factual, rational, or logical reasoning... the situation will not change.

All sides are guilty.


Yes indeed. All sides are guilty. Including all who take sides... especially when we take sides with the politicians and against our fellow man. I don't care if it's the person of faith denying others the rights and privileges of marriage... or the gay couple demanding a cake. If you don't "believe" in gay marriage, thank God and all that is sacred that you have the power to choose for yourself, and allow others the same. If you want a wedding cake, be thankful you live in a nation in which you are free to marry the person of your choice, and find a baker that is happy to bake you a cake. Live and let live. We can all make our own lives examples of that simple principle, and respect laws that let everyone live according to their own conscience and will.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Boadicea


What is this political compromise you speak of? The only time our politicians do anything bi-partisan is when it has negative consequences for the people and benefits themselves or their lobbyist.


Agreed -- wholeheartedly!

And from where I'm sitting, one of the reasons they get away with it is because the rest of us are more intent on fighting each other than the PTB. And they will continue to do the same, unless and until we stop them. But we cannot do that until we stop fighting each other and start working together. What can bring people -- you and me and our neighbors -- to a happy middle ground? How can we find and demand that happy medium?


There is no such thing anymore.

Any common ground around corruption, reform, or enforcing the law will quickly be divided by injecting "social issues" into the various camps. Any common interests will be overwhelmed immediately by those divisions. That is why the GOP infiltrated the Reform Party and the TEA Party while the Leftest demonized them and vice versa with the Green and Occupy movements.
edit on 26-4-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: dreamingawake


Citizens as a whole have to move beyond that, realizing what is actually going on here, and take into consideration that not everyone is going to agree 100 percent all the time.


Exactly. We have to get past what went wrong to how to make it right, and we have to make that happen. The ones with their boots on our necks don't want to change a thing. And in the process we have to respect that not only will not everyone agree, we have to respect others' rights to do so. We cannot fight for our rights unless we're fighting for everyone's rights.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

I'm sorry, but that idea is contradictory. I want to drive at 150 and everyone else wants to drive at 30. Sure, that's gonna work. Half wants to drive on the left side the other the right.

You 'want' is what I wanted as a 16 year old that thought I was the center of the universe. It's selfish in the extreme.

The number of things I want are voluminous. I recognize that those wants aren't realistic.

Moral codes are a system of co-operation, of interaction amongst people. Lubricant, so to speak.

Recognize this necessity or suffer a very unhappy life...



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

"I understand that finding and understanding the root cause of any problem is necessary to finding and understanding the solutions. But at some point, we must move beyond the blame game to talking and discussing and working together... unless, of course, the end game is to simply impose one's will on another, in which case enough said."

From all that I've seen, in most instances of the disputes you listed, the end game is to simply impose one's will on another. There's no spirit of compromise; there's no interest in compromise. Its "Our Way or the Highway". This country is in the last stage of the Cold War stage of a Civil War...and its about to go hot. And when it does, the Cities will be the flash points.

Saddest thing about this is that it would make for great reality TV if only the Gov't Media outlets will cover it. Hopefully with drones and such, they'll be able to do so. We may well remember this as the Summer of "Mad Max".



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: Answer

Facts are questionable . For example, let's pretend I am the Nobel Peace Prize winner for my work on global climate change. Does my writings and findings become fact because I won the Nobel? What if I paid off those I needed to influence and validate my findings that are now considered "facts". I bought the label of "fact". Another example is big pharma. They advertise their wonder drug does X. The list of side effects are worse than the benefit. But a ton of money went into the pockets of those persons who, in turn, paid for the FDAs stamp of approval. The drug is garbage but, hey, it is claims of being beneficial are factual because the FDA deemed it so.

The America we live in today is driven by greed . Greed for money needed to buy power. . Power is the prize. Politicians buy votes, lobbyists buy the politician's support of whatever the lobbying was for and all of this is done with full knowledge that there will certainly be unintended consequences and negative and sometimes fatal results. All because of power and money.

We need to be better than this. We need to get involved and be approachable to those who come to us seeking our input and assistance. We need to live in truth, integrity, and dispose of greed all together.

Greed, money and the unquenchable thirst for maximum power has brought this country to this moment. If we all become aware, collectively we can bring change.

All we need is the will and fortitude.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Besides a moral code only works with 'agreement' by the majority anyways.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 03:48 PM
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a reply to: KawRider9



I could go on with hundreds of other issues, but y'all get the point. We don't want to fix anything. We would rather argue about silly crap. No uniting us together, just divide. My side is right and you're an idiot. Rinse and repeat on every damn issue we face.


I really don't want to believe that people don't want to fix anything... I'd rather believe that we've simply been led astray (via all the silly crap injected into issues) and do not know how to move forward. Answers are going to require all of us stepping outside our comfort zone and thinking outside the box constructed around us.

What could we do with gun control laws and gun violence? Maybe we could start by agreeing that everyone has an inalienable right to defend and protect themselves, their families, and anyone in danger. Guns are one way to do so, but not the only way, and not always the best way. From there, may we can also agree that guns are only one way to do so, and agree that guns are also very dangerous in the hands of those who want to hurt others, and in the hands of those who do not know how to properly use them. What can we do to maximize gun safety while minimizing gun violence, without denying anyone the right to defend themselves... including with a gun? Education? Gun safety and use, of course, but also other forms of self defense. How about instead of gun-free zones -- which ensures only the bad guys have guns, maximizing the potential harm they can inflict -- have designated gun holders, trained to defend and protect?

I'm just throwing ideas out there... trying to find ways to address the concerns of both... finding that happy medium...




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